Reps for IRON, NPO, Echelon, and TPF

[Seerow]

To be honest I think that everyone should be given terms equal to those MK had scaled for size.

Since the NPO decided that in reps you can exchange 50 tech for 3mil, that makes the 82k tech translate into roughly 4,920,000,000. If you use a more normal ratio (1.5mil for 50), it's 2,460,000,000. Convert that into money or tech as you prefer at the ratio desired, then scale it for size. So for the NPO still sitting pretty at 830 nations, if they got peace today it would be 13,612,000,000 in reps (using the 1.5mil for 50 scale). You can convert that to tech and call it 450,000 tech.

This should be applied to all enemies. Just to see who is actually capable of doing it. I honestly don't think most alliances are up to it.

Oh and make sure to add on a 60 day maximum time limit. I'm pretty sure that's what NPO put on post UJW for their money. (Which btw if I recall correctly the terms were met with 20 days to spare)

Of course we won't see reps approaching that because Karma's loaded with a bunch of !@#$%*^ who are afraid to demand anything resembling actual reps for peace. We'll see a round of 100mil reps that get paid and everyone settles back into doing nothing. But hey, you never know, somebody might grow a backbone.

[Kilkenny]

Well all you've done is confuse me with the most unrelated claim of a "crime" I've yet seen against us. Apparently we owe ourselves reps for pzi'ing our own gov in the past If your intent was to confuse, I humbly yield the field to you this time.

Well as one of the nations supposedly PZI'd...I'll take those reps now Maybe receipt of the reps will jog my memory about that and help me remember that I should be bitter and angry and hate TPF..... oh wait, I'm in TPF so does that mean I hate myself??

/goes to find the TPF hate thread to post there now.

[WorkingClassRuler]

Our internal policies usually ask that terms and reps reflect the behavior of the enemy alliance, and there's been no alliance we've ever come across who's been this strong-willed, determined, loyal, and completely unwilling to individually surrender. And that's despite us throwing some of our absolutely worst Vogon poetry at them!

[Chickenzilla]

Really? Was it TPF that did it or Valhalla? I remember Stumpy telling me otherwise, in fact, I think TPF was a bit reason why you guys were able to survive. I can spin the truth as well but I'd get called on it and I'll call you on it as well. I have logs of Stumpy telling me otherwise and I know Stumpy would've never left you behind. I'm not going to bring up the logs of my conversation with Stumpy because it may harm our friendship.

So because TPF honored their allies in NPO they're the ones who deserve disbandment? Nevermind MCXA who tried to throw Polaris out of BLEU and betrayed them and later attacked them. Nevermind GGA who were a prime example of an alliance who uses P/EZI more frequently than the NPO. But TPF. TPF, an alliance that has never practiced what MCXA and GGA have are being singled out. If it's a grudge, hey say it's a grudge, PC has. And PC wants TPF disbanded because "TPF is a threat" to their future existance when TPF had the ability to destroy PC at any time but you know what? They didn't. And you know if TPF had attacked PC most alliances on Planet Bob would've been aboard with it, heh, including some alliance I used to be in.

So we'll single out TPF, why? Because they're the only ones on the Hegemony truly left standing and you want revenge. You want them disbanded. You want to destroy an entire community. You're willing to give up everything you fought for just to get some revenge because you just can't help it, they did this to you. Just take a step back and look at the game as a whole and how you now want to play it all. I will fight to end P/EZI because hell I've been there and you should to. Not advocate it out of revenge. It's a game and we're all entitled to playing it. But as you demand harsher reps and to retain some of the practices laid on by the Hegemony expect me. Because we'll just be on different sides pounding each other into oblivion over a concept that should've never been used to begin with.

I still remember TPF hounding Atlantis and our allies for any reason to attack us. Good outstanding citizens these TPF members are.

[Nathan Flech]

Reps should total in the Trillions of dollars and millions of tech.

Yes i am serious.

Agree, that'd probably be enough, plus they kick out all military (except for 20% of citizen population in soldiers) for three months and all become protectorates or Sparta. And if they disband all nations would have to pay personal reps but not demilitarize.

[Amoshu]

I think reps should be an adequate size.

Echelon - Around 100 mill

TPF - Around 100 mill, Preferably none, since theyve been very honorable, Awesome, and well just plain Amazing During and Before the war.

NPO - Around 500 mill, Theyve sank alot in Size, Dont over flow them. Their just players like you and me even if they are .... Well we wont discuss that here.

IRON - Ehm.... 300 mill, Yeah.

.... Are you high? I could have paid these myself at the start of April, provided I were able to send up to 500m in one aid slot.

[Otherworld]

To be honest...these alliances should have the lightest reps (well, apart from NPO...) as they actually stuck to the war.

For example, all Echelon did was stick by its treaties and took a battering for it. Fair enough, move along. Same for IRON as well tbh. I can see some justification for TPF being given reps, but no more justification than other alliances who already have surrendered and got away with basically nothing.

Then there is NPO...I don't think they should be ever given terms.

[In Spades]

I demand a bottle of liquor and a carton of smokes from Echelon as reps. Nothing more, nothing less.

Don't really have a feeling one-way or another about all the other alliances out at war. To quote Rudyard Kipling, "As long as I have my eats and my smokes, what more could I possibly want?"

[Angrator]

It won't be that bad...it would only take.... 27,378,507,871.321 years...

Actually what you would need to do is to funnel all the aid. Every phoenix member would give one dollar. They would funnel it to other phoenix members who, after contributing a dollar would send it onto the next player. Eventually, after collecting a couple hundred dollars they would send it onto one of the opposing team. It would only consume roughly half of their alliances foreign aid slots, so haha to you. So for the entire life of your alliance you would constantly be using 2 of those slots.

[Ying Yang Mafia]

Of course we won't see reps approaching that because Karma's loaded with a bunch of !@#$%*^ who are afraid to demand anything resembling actual reps for peace. We'll see a round of 100mil reps that get paid and everyone settles back into doing nothing. But hey, you never know, somebody might grow a backbone.

Do you suggest that Karma threaten every member of the Hegemony who is currently in peace mode with EZI as well? Or how about just ignore this whole rep business and force them to disband? Of course, Karma is just the new Hegemony right?

[A Soviet Attack]

Of course we won't see reps approaching that because Karma's loaded with a bunch of !@#$%*^ who are afraid to demand anything resembling actual reps for peace. We'll see a round of 100mil reps that get paid and everyone settles back into doing nothing. But hey, you never know, somebody might grow a backbone.

We'll see. I expect NPO reps to be massive.

[Sandwich Controversy]

I didn't even fight that war, but wasn't TPF and MK on the same side?

Only on paper.

[janax]

I'd like to see IRON get white peace. Make it happen please. The rest, I couldn't care less what happens to. IRON is good peeps though.

[BamaBuc]

Well as one of the nations supposedly PZI'd...I'll take those reps now Maybe receipt of the reps will jog my memory about that and help me remember that I should be bitter and angry and hate TPF..... oh wait, I'm in TPF so does that mean I hate myself??

/goes to find the TPF hate thread to post there now.

We GZIed Atarax... We attacked you until you agreed to join government. XD

-Bama

[Mack Truck]

So the gist of your response is guilty by association in such issues you listed....lets see who else were involved in the incidents where IRON is charged for guilt of association.

GPA WAar, apart from NPO and Q allies, following Karma members were involved:

FOK, VE, Umbrella and TOP, Sparta(Political support) but we have to remember TOP and Umbrella have moved on and have offered white peace all around.

Regarding damage, We've taken more damage than GPA...and GPA reps, I'm not sure, I cant recall the exact reps, as you know our forums were DDoSED, I'm sure tho the above mentioned alliances will have the specifics.

NoCB war:

Ragnarok, FARK, Sparta, MHA, FOK, R&R, ODN(understandable), Citadel mostly.

In NoCB, Most of these alliances are more than guilty of just association, some of them took alot of reps...now tell me How much did IRON extort in NoCB war? RoK fought beside us in NoCB war..so now they are asking us reps for that?

I am not here expectign white peace nor I demand such...we gave white peace long before it became a 'popular' thing..in the same war you guys keep repeating i.e. NoCb war.

So basically we are alleged of same crimes committed by those who are asking IRON biggest reps in history of game.

I think some alliances on our side are just as guilty in certain actions. On the bad side, it means they escape punishment being dealt out to their former comrades. On the plus side, we might not have been able to win this war without their help. I think the latter over-rides the former.

[Kilkenny]

We GZIed Atarax... We attacked you until you agreed to join government. XD

-Bama

See, now that makes sense...thanks Bama for clearing that up for me.

[Seerow]

Do you suggest that Karma threaten every member of the Hegemony who is currently in peace mode with EZI as well? Or how about just ignore this whole rep business and force them to disband? Of course, Karma is just the new Hegemony right?

No, but reps approaching what has been imparted on other alliances for far less cause would be fair. There's a difference between harsh terms and requiring disbandment.

We'll see. I expect NPO reps to be massive.

We also thought Valhalla and other large alliances would be getting massive reps. We see how that worked out.

[AirMe]

I think the point that many, including myself are trying to make.....and at least for me failing to make.....Is that when people see Billion and more than 10k tech they flip out because those numbers seem high. What you need to take into account now is the size of the alliance and the resources they have at hand. For the people who are going to ask for reps in their surrender terms may ask for an amount that does seem high but step back and look at it objectively.

82k Tech is a major deal for a 150 man alliance where as it really is less of a big deal for a 600 man alliance

14k Tech is different for a 40 man alliance than it is for a 400 man alliance.

So, what I ask of you is before you go all JIHAD on reps, step back and look at them in relation to the alliance they will be coming from. I suspect then, when you look at the facts that some of the rumored reps going around aren't as bad as you think they are.

Also as a side note, I hope TPF gets pretty light terms. They have possibly been the best sports out of all the hegemony alliances, and Mhawk at least semi admits that in the past he has been wrong.

[SpoiL]

Should still make NPO come out of peace mode before considering reps. The rest of them should just be moderate-standardly harsh reps equal at least to the amount of NS lost.

Edited May 22, 2009 by SpoiL

[clifclav]

We GZIed Atarax... We attacked you until you agreed to join government. XD

-Bama

So let me see...I was TPF government, then Atarax government, and now am some low level government type in TPF again.

So I PZI'ed myself into joining another alliance and then PZI'ed myself back into government all without ever actually being ZI'ed.

I think Schrödinger's cat just traveled back in time and killed my grandfather.

[Drostan]

Agree with the notion that NPO must come out of peace before reps being decided. No NPO nation should be allowed to escape unscathed from this.

[Haflinger]

Yes because saying no when NPO comes a knocking was so healthy for alliances at that time. Actually kind of why we're here.

We turned down reps from the Unjust War. So did MHA. What did NPO do to the two of us postwar?

They signed a huge MDP with MHA, and brought us into a new bloc.

VE could easily have said no to MK reps.

[Feanor Noldorin]

What will be interesting to see is what alliances cave into the outcry for harsher reps. Will they bend in to peer pressure from others who are not even involved in particular wars? Will they try to set an "example" and demand huge reps even though some of these alliances don't deserve that?

From what I have seen of the preliminarily demands that have been sent to IRON this looks to be the case.

[kingzog]

This is one of those "My personal feelings, not my alliance's" moments.

My thoughts generally are:

1. IRON - IRON has made poor choices with regard to friends, and has done nothing (to my knowledge) when said friends used their power to bully, extort and disband alliances.

2. Echelon - I don't know if they've figured out yet just how well they were played when the NPO convinced them to ditch BLEU in favor of One Vision. They are nothing more but meatshields for the NPO.

3. TPF - Historically, one of the worst offenders by far. They took overt, swaggering bullying to new levels under the leadership of Slayer and TBB.

4. NPO - There's not much one can say. Their history is well-known. Among their many crimes, they have stabbed most of their allies in the back, including their "blood brothers" in Polaris.

So:

1. IRON - They're more of an "accessory" to the crimes of others. Their terms should be significant.

2. Echelon - If they manage to survive this war as an alliance, their terms should be relatively light.

3. TPF - Terms should be crippling and of significant duration. (Say, a year or so.) They have been nothing but bullies in the past, and bullies don't learn their lesson easily. (Sorry, mhawk. I'm still not convinced. This is subject to change, however.)

4. NPO - Terms? Bah. They should get to enjoy the 'FAN experience' for the next couple of years before the subject of "terms" is even discussed.

Edited May 22, 2009 by kingzog

[Haflinger]

Also, to those of you still doubting whether TPF has ever enacted perma-ZI I give you this for your viewing pleasure:

http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=12359

Term #9 is the one we're looking for I believe.

That thread is fascinating.

http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?s...st&p=329824

http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?s...st&p=329834

http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?s...st&p=329898

http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?s...st&p=330798

http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?s...st&p=330803

http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?s...st&p=330964

http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?s...st&p=332150

Well anyway.