Reps for IRON, NPO, Echelon, and TPF

[mhawk]

Sigged. Thank you for this honor mhawk.

It is true. We have whole forum to "Counter-Stumpy" operations.

[iamthey]

Maybe you should forward that question FAN. The answer I think would be "Just die"

Oh you mean what they said after Fan violated the first peace agreement?

[Orkules]

From what I remember noWedge wanted to P-Zi entire alliances and Slayer and others stopped all that nonsense and noWedge didn't last much longer.

I also recall him forcing an inspection of our forums and my perma-ZI.

[bbrownso]

Trying to take out PC. So we have every right to hate TPF.

Well that takes care of the demands of 74 nations. you only need to account for a few thousand more.

[mhawk]

Trying to take out PC. So we have every right to hate TPF.

Tried to take you out so hard, when you were completely isolated and us in the largest bloc ever assembled... we signed a nap. It is obvious how hard I tried to kill pc.

[magicninja]

It is true. We have whole forum to "Counter-Stumpy" operations.

I used to spear-head that op.

[Azaghul]

If Valhalla got off scotch free, OG the same, and GGA and MCXA nearly unscathed I don't get what TPF has done that was so bad. They fought to the end. Never once did they support P/EZI nor did they force any alliance to disband or lay upon them very harsh terms. Why is it that TPF is getting singled out? Because they gave you the war that you wanted? Or is it because "rolling a hard six" really irritates you that much?

How about being a part of demanding 14,000 tech from a small alliance that only had 16,000 tech like they did to Athens for the noCB war? There's no excuse for that.

[General Specific]

If Valhalla got off scotch free, OG the same, and GGA and MCXA nearly unscathed I don't get what TPF has done that was so bad. They fought to the end. Never once did they support P/EZI nor did they force any alliance to disband or lay upon them very harsh terms. Why is it that TPF is getting singled out? Because they gave you the war that you wanted? Or is it because "rolling a hard six" really irritates you that much?

Seriously, what the heck did TPF do that was so catastrophic that warrants them of all alliances to be singled out? I don't understand it. Do you people not realize that they stood up for most of the things you stood for and forced the Hegemony to make some changes?

What did TPF do to deserve this? Please answer me because right now some of these comments are beyong ridiculous. And Orkules, you sound like a damn NPO IO after his alliance has been betrayed I'll tell you that right now.

For starters, TPF made an art form out of opportunistic backstabbing and doublespeak in its conduct of alliance politics and war. Sure, mhawk claims and even appears to have changed some of that (evidence, right now in this war), but the pre-mhawk TPF history and the current continuation of denying everything they ever did dishonorable most likely is not helping them right now.

You also have your sole pointed claim (about PZI), which is really a small one in the big scheme of wrongs, quite backwards, obviously fed to you wholesale from the TPF revisionists.

As for reps, I am not a fan of them, even here, and find a public admission and accounting of past sins far more effective, but as I wrote in an NPO thread a week or so ago, just have them repay what they made in reps from other alliances to those alliances in question, and call it a restitution program or something. B)

[mhawk]

How about being a part of demanding 14,000 tech from a small alliance that only had 16,000 tech like they did to Athens for the noCB war? There's no excuse for that.

Raise the black flag on us.. ya know you want to

If Athens wants their 4k tech back, they can have it.

[hans zonmyrod]

Please don't bring this practice back in. It is something that serves no purpose.

oh, but in this case it would be so fitting; an alliance that posseses blatant arrogence will forever be arrogant, negate the source and the rest will have a chance to flourish.

[DrunkMonkey]

How about being a part of demanding 14,000 tech from a small alliance that only had 16,000 tech like they did to Athens for the noCB war? There's no excuse for that.

correction it was 4k, don't add in the GPA 10k to inflate it. We have enough bad math already.

btw, I'm pretty sure MK is now in possession of that 4k...

Edited May 22, 2009 by DrunkMonkey

[The AUT]

Hi, I'm somebody who TPF perma-ZI'd. In truth I was eternal ZI'd, they just had the exact same name at the time. Stop with the "We never did it!" stuff.

Really? Was it TPF that did it or Valhalla? I remember Stumpy telling me otherwise, in fact, I think TPF was a bit reason why you guys were able to survive. I can spin the truth as well but I'd get called on it and I'll call you on it as well. I have logs of Stumpy telling me otherwise and I know Stumpy would've never left you behind. I'm not going to bring up the logs of my conversation with Stumpy because it may harm our friendship.

Also, I would definitely say that I openly and vocally disagreed with the terms given to Old Guard and Valhalla, as did many others. They deserved worse. MCXA is admittedly the one of you that I cared the least about and GGA frankly I don't see as a threat even if we hadn't touched them, let alone forcing them to rebuild with terms. I think you deserve worse even if just for helping the NPO so well and loyally while they did what they did.

So because TPF honored their allies in NPO they're the ones who deserve disbandment? Nevermind MCXA who tried to throw Polaris out of BLEU and betrayed them and later attacked them. Nevermind GGA who were a prime example of an alliance who uses P/EZI more frequently than the NPO. But TPF. TPF, an alliance that has never practiced what MCXA and GGA have are being singled out. If it's a grudge, hey say it's a grudge, PC has. And PC wants TPF disbanded because "TPF is a threat" to their future existance when TPF had the ability to destroy PC at any time but you know what? They didn't. And you know if TPF had attacked PC most alliances on Planet Bob would've been aboard with it, heh, including some alliance I used to be in.

So we'll single out TPF, why? Because they're the only ones on the Hegemony truly left standing and you want revenge. You want them disbanded. You want to destroy an entire community. You're willing to give up everything you fought for just to get some revenge because you just can't help it, they did this to you. Just take a step back and look at the game as a whole and how you now want to play it all. I will fight to end P/EZI because hell I've been there and you should to. Not advocate it out of revenge. It's a game and we're all entitled to playing it. But as you demand harsher reps and to retain some of the practices laid on by the Hegemony expect me. Because we'll just be on different sides pounding each other into oblivion over a concept that should've never been used to begin with.

Edited May 22, 2009 by The AUT

[SynthFG]

People can offer us whatever they want. However they can't get anymore than we'd agree to. War is too fun to give up easily.

Have you been reading our codex?

Anyway a sentiment I can agree with

IRON should get fairly lenient terms, they had to face us which should be enough of a punishment for any alliance, and they made a good fight of it, they haven't hid there upper ranks in PM (other than those few without a war chest). It's been a good war

[Stumpy Jung Il]

It is true. We have whole forum to "Counter-Stumpy" operations.

I have no doubt that this is true.

@magicpirate - Im sure you use to run it, but as expected you couldn't stand against a player of my caliber. Im sure a Grinch reroll runs it now. Son of a !@#$%* is always finding ways to undermine me.

@TheAUT - No, it was not noWedge. He wanted all of TDSM8, Slayer wanted Campbell. In the end, Campbell made the call to leave the alliance because we wouldnt surrender without him. However, he left and saved us and we soon let in his reroll and gave him government just to show our thanks.

Edited May 22, 2009 by Stumpy Jung Il

[The Pansy]

Traitor. Stumpy is enemy #1

Welcome to the Pansy Zero Tech list

[Orkules]

Really? Was it TPF that did it or Valhalla? I remember Stumpy telling me otherwise, in fact, I think TPF was a bit reason why you guys were able to survive. I can spin the truth as well but I'd get called on it and I'll call you on it as well. I have logs of Stumpy telling me otherwise and I know Stumpy would've never left you behind. I'm not going to bring up the logs of my conversation with Stumpy because it may harm our friendship.

Valhalla forced the situation that led to it but I was in fact on TPF and Elysium's PZI lists. I have never been on Valhalla's list. Slayer was the one who told me if he ever found out who I rerolled as he would come for me, mhawk is the one who threatened me after misunderstanding that led to me revealing my identity.

So because TPF honored their allies in NPO they're the ones who deserve disbandment? Nevermind MCXA who tried to throw Polaris out of BLEU and betrayed them and later attacked them. Nevermind GGA who were a prime example of an alliance who uses P/EZI more frequently than the NPO. But TPF. TPF, an alliance that has never practiced what MCXA and GGA have are being singled out. If it's a grudge, hey say it's a grudge, PC has. And PC wants TPF disbanded because "TPF is a threat" to their future existance when TPF had the ability to destroy PC at any time but you know what? They didn't. And you know if TPF had attacked PC most alliances on Planet Bob would've been aboard with it, heh, including some alliance I used to be in.

So we'll single out TPF, why? Because they're the only ones on the Hegemony truly left standing and you want revenge. You want them disbanded. You want to destroy an entire community. You're willing to give up everything you fought for just to get some revenge because you just can't help it, they did this to you. Just take a step back and look at the game as a whole and how you now want to play it all. I will fight to end P/EZI because hell I've been there and you should to. Not advocate it out of revenge. It's a game and we're all entitled to playing it. But as you demand harsher reps and to retain some of the practices laid on by the Hegemony expect me. Because we'll just be on different sides pounding each other into oblivion over a concept that should've never been used to begin with.

Did I say you deserve disbandment? No. Actually I would say aside from Echelon you, of the remaining parties, deserve the least. You and Echelon probably deserve a bad beating and a good bit of reps. However, none of you deserve disbandment as I believe nobody deserves that forced on them no matter the crime. I hold supporting your allies against you because of your allies actions, not because you honored your agreement. That you were true to your word doesn't change the fact that you allied yourselves to, and supported the actions of, monsters.

I want TPF to stay. I want them to come back and I want them to change. But I also want them to pay a bit for what they did and I have never advocated white peace for everyone. Do you deserve to get beaten up a bit? Yes. Do you deserve some terms? Yes. Do you deserve something more than a tiny bit of terms? Yes. Do you deserve disbandment? No. Do you deserve utter annihilation? No. If my earlier post gave you the impression I thought you deserved as much as NPO I am sorry, not my intention.

Stop twisting my words. I am honestly tired of you guys doing that to us.

[Azaghul]

Raise the black flag on us.. ya know you want to

If Athens wants their 4k tech back, they can have it.

correction it was 4k, don't add in the GPA 10k to inflate it. We have enough bad math already.

btw, I'm pretty sure MK is now in possession of that 4k...

The 14K was the total Athens paid, 4K to TPF, 8K to NPO, and 2K to SSSW18 IIRC.

Also we aren't coming ahead on tech right now, with all the nukes flying all over the place.

I'm not for really hard terms for TPF and I respect y'all a lot for fighting till the bitter end. I was just pointing out that the "TPF has never supported harsh terms" line is crap.

[Captain Flinders]

I would say that you have something worse than hate...maybe an obsession with illusion?

It wouldn't be the first alliance TPF has tried (and on occasion succeeded) in targeting and having a large hand in destroying. TPF leadership (up until they've been trying to play angels recently) have been very proud of how they "diplomatically isolated" alliances like Atlantis and NoV. Or were those just illusions too?

[mhawk]

It wouldn't be the first alliance TPF has tried (and on occasion succeeded) in targeting and having a large hand in destroying. TPF leadership (up until they've been trying to play angels recently) have been very proud of how they "diplomatically isolated" alliances like Atlantis and NoV. Or were those just illusions too?

By recently you mean.... 9 months ago?

[Captain Flinders]

By recently you mean.... 9 months ago?

You've been playing the angel card for 9 months? I don't think so. You started laying it on thick just before and during this war. Before that, you were more than content with riding on the works and misdeeds of your predecessors.

[Gruthenia]

I dunno man there's Karma alliances that took their fair share in those reps. Hell TPF got 14k tech total and VE got 12k in one whack.

He asked what extortionate reps TPF and NPO took reading helps but hey you're magicninja!

First is a collective group and second really isn't all that bad. There are some that want to outdue even their own karma allies and set a precedence that hasn't ever been seen before...

Athens was forced to pay out 14,000 tech total at a time when the alliance as a whole had less than 20,000 so the second was that bad. The first may be a collective group but the collective sum was also nearly unprecedented at the time and is still quite hefty by the standards that are only now being brought down

EDIT: sorry for responding to posts so far back

Edited May 22, 2009 by Matthew George

[magicninja]

He asked what extortionate reps TPF and NPO took reading helps but hey you're magicninja!

So if TPF had joined the Karma side they would be exempt? Interesting notion.

[magicninja]

I'm not for really hard terms for TPF and I respect y'all a lot for fighting till the bitter end. I was just pointing out that the "TPF has never supported harsh terms" line is crap.

I never said TPF didn't support those terms. I was saying Karma alliances did as well even profiting more than TPF did in some cases.

[The AUT]

So if TPF had joined the Karma side they would be exempt? Interesting notion.

Yes. VE, TOP, and Sparta are all examples of this. Because they "turned over a new leaf."

I don't know doesn't make sense to me but you know I'm slow.

[Gruthenia]

So if TPF had joined the Karma side they would be exempt? Interesting notion.

You have an interesting notion that I should include answers to questions that weren't asked in posts that I reply to.

http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?s...t&p=1547235

This was the post I was replying to. Notice how no mention of Karma alliances is made. Notice how my post only links to announcements that include reps demanded by alliances listed in the post I replied to to answer the question of "what extortionate reps did TPF and NPO take". Now, notice what you're talking about in your post. Do you see the disconnect? If not, go to the link I provided you with and read it again, and again, and again until you understand where you went wrong. I didn't say anybody was exempt. He asked for examples of where NPO and TPF demanded harsh reps, I gave them to him. You're just trying to put words into my mouth and divert the topic.