Reps for IRON, NPO, Echelon, and TPF

[magicninja]

I'll remind you of Poison Clan and Atarax. All who left were to be attacked and their leaders were to be sentenced to PZI when they left, and then the remaining TPF government went to hell in a handbasket trying to make sense of that. Now thye have mhawk and that cool deathcat dude trying their damnedest to hold things together.

Man, I love the Vox Populi alliance history archives.

There was talk of it but I don't remember any follow through. I think that was just frustration manifesting itself as idle chatter.

[mhawk]

I'll remind you of Poison Clan and Atarax. All who left were to be attacked and their leaders were to be sentenced to PZI when they left (across rerolls, yes), and then the remaining TPF government went to hell in a handbasket trying to make sense of that. Now they have mhawk and that cool deathcat dude trying their damnedest to hold things together.

Man, I love the Vox Populi alliance history archives.

PZI atarax? PC? PC was given a protectorate so far as I know, and Atarax was "pzi'ed" so hard many of their members are now the highest gov below me, E_C as a Phoenix Magistrate, and Kilkenny as MoW. Before wingwhiper deleted he was also a PM. All were Atarax members.

Edited May 22, 2009 by mhawk

[Poyplemonkeys]

When we merged, TPF was on the verge of disbandment. There might have been such a list, but since I joined we have not carried it out, nor do we know where "it" is located. For all intents there is no list.

Then I will take your word for this and only discuss it's past.

If the nation doesn't want to make amends then yes he will eventually be brought to ZI but that isn't the intent. The intent is to get the target to make amends. IMO that does not a ZI list make.

It was explicitly stated that they should be constantly attacked whenever possible. Most of the people got off of that list by deleting their nations before they hit ZI. Just because you can get off of the list with a grovelling apology, promises you've changed, or paying reparations doesn't change what it is. How do you think several Vox founders like SrQt were released? Because they most definitely were on various ZI lists even if they weren't on TPF's.

[HellAngel]

I have been reading your codex. And after a few discussions about the meaning of a few points your codex is meaningless in coordinated efforts. Allthought Gramlins dont want reps themselves, they dont care what others ask. Cause the codex only applies to Gramlins.

Finally someone realizes that. It was never meant to apply to anyone else than us.

[General Specific]

PZI atarax? PC? PC was given a protectorate so far as I know, and Atarax was "pzi'ed" so hard many of their members are now the highest gov below me, E_C as a Phoenix Magistrate, and Kilkenny as MoW.

No offense, but without compromising your current alliance security, you are wrong and unless you insist, I should refrain from posting more from the Vox archives to show here just how wrong you are. (These things probably should be burned now that Vox is dissolved. And no good really would come from posting much of this stuff.)

I still stand by my original sentiment that I hope TPF is not asked to pay outrageous reps, and definitely not be asked to disband. It would seem just if TPF were asked only to repay received reps to allliances like the GPA and Athens and perhaps 2 or 3 others they received reps from.

[magicninja]

Then I will take your word for this and only discuss it's past.

It was explicitly stated that they should be constantly attacked whenever possible. Most of the people got off of that list by deleting their nations before they hit ZI. Just because you can get off of the list with a grovelling apology, promises you've changed, or paying reparations doesn't change what it is. How do you think several Vox founders like SrQt were released? Because they most definitely were on various ZI lists even if they weren't on TPF's.

If you like. To me a Zi list implies you can't get out of it no matter what you do.

[Poyplemonkeys]

Well if you're going to have your own definitions for things there's not a lot I can do to argue that.

[magicninja]

Well if you're going to have your own definitions for things there's not a lot I can do to argue that.

Well think about it. If people aren't going to "ZI" is it really a "ZI" list?

[mhawk]

No offense, but without compromising your current alliance security, you are wrong and unless you insist, I should refrain from posting more from the Vox archives to show here just how wrong you are. (These things probably should be burned now that Vox is dissolved. And no good really would come from posting much of this stuff.)

I still stand by my original sentiment that I hope TPF is not asked to pay outrageous reps, and definitely not be asked to disband. It would seem just if TPF were asked only to repay received reps to allliances like the GPA and Athens and perhaps 2 or 3 others they received reps from.

What are you talking about. E_C, Wingwhiper, Killkenny were or are all high ranking gov members. We didn't PZI them, they rejoined the alliance around the same time I joined TPF. It would seem highly odd we would put PZI people into our gov asap.

Edited May 22, 2009 by mhawk

[Orkules]

Ok, I can't believe I'm the one doing this...but this is a bit absurd even for me.

Mhawk's Phoenix Federation does not deserve any blame or grudges based on Total Farkistan. They're not even the same alliance. I don't think any off TF!'s leadership still remains. Pulling TPF from UjW is a fairly silly stretch as far as I am concerned, once again the leadership possibly even membership is no longer present. Don't blame them for their actions, especially not those of TF!

I'm all for and completely ok with grudges and holding people responsible for their actions but that is stretching WAY too far, even for me.

[General Specific]

Ok, I can't believe I'm the one doing this...but this is a bit absurd even for me.

Mhawk's Phoenix Federation does not deserve any blame or grudges based on Total Farkistan. They're not even the same alliance. I don't think any off TF!'s leadership still remains. Pulling TPF from UjW is a fairly silly stretch as far as I am concerned, once again the leadership possibly even membership is no longer present. Don't blame them for their actions, especially not those of TF!

I'm all for and completely ok with grudges and holding people responsible for their actions but that is stretching WAY too far, even for me.

I agree and that was not my point at all. There really never was a TF! or even a TPF pre-mhawk. There was a personality cult much like what we see in the currently ailing Pacifica today.

Just as I hope the nations of tpf are given some honorable peace terms, I also don't want to see the nations of the NPO punished with reps. Repay some key reps they extorted from some helpless alliances yes, but not pay reps for the sake of reps.

[shahenshah]

Taking discussion from TOP topic forward:

So our reps are being justified on the reps we did not take?

Instead of listing the reps of other alliances...why don't you list the reps that IRON took...and the ones for which IRON *paid* for and the ones which IRON *waivered* Airme and Delta.

If your primary reason is reps for being part of Q at those times, then may I suggest you look at your own roster list first Karma.

You yourself are using MK's reps to justify the reps on us...the same reps you whined around for a long time...as far as IRON is concerned...Karma is worst off than Hegemony taking in to account our own past actions and reps specifically related to IRON.

But you're giving example of MK right...did those reps stopped MK from reaching in position to where it is now? did those reps help the alliances that took it? When all was said and done, it didn't. It only created a bitter and smarter enemy for NPO.\

I hope Citadel will not be a part of enabling such behaviors... wasn't these the same very reasons(or related) you apparently fought against.

These are the terms IRON are getting, well bubye NPO? You guys better stay firm and put in Peace mode.

Airme's Reply:

We should probably request the mods split this thread.

But are you insinuating that sending out 82k Tech had no effect on MK? You did stand by an let your allies take these reps from alliances. Did you ever stand up and say WTF MAN? I can't say I have ever seen any one from IRON stand up for the little guy.

Generally speaking I do believe in light terms, and perhaps you never took an active roll in getting these reps but one could call NPO the primary hammer while you were the broadsword that was strapped to their back.

EDIT: What about the damage you caused to GPA? Did you take any reps from GPA? Something along the line of 300 tech per member?

Delta:

You're completely missing the point. RIA has never accepted rep payments before. We've still had to pay reps during wars we've lost. We aren't fighting against the idea of reps. We're fighting against extortion. MK's reps from the NoCB war equated to 9.9 slots per member in order to pay off. The IRON reps on the table translate to 3.3 slots per member. That's 1/3 the size of MK's reps when adjusted for size, ignoring the effects of inflation completely. Per member, your reps aren't huge. They are pretty average. You could pay them in a month.

Mack Truck

Like Delta said, it isn't about association - gotta disagree with you AirMe - it's merely comparison. If IRON were to pay 3b&50k it would be well within your means, moreso than MK's was.

So the gist of your response is guilty by association in such issues you listed....lets see who else were involved in the incidents where IRON is charged for guilt of association.

GPA WAar, apart from NPO and Q allies, following Karma members were involved:

FOK, VE, Umbrella and TOP, Sparta(Political support) but we have to remember TOP and Umbrella have moved on and have offered white peace all around.

Regarding damage, We've taken more damage than GPA...and GPA reps, I'm not sure, I cant recall the exact reps, as you know our forums were DDoSED, I'm sure tho the above mentioned alliances will have the specifics.

NoCB war:

Ragnarok, FARK, Sparta, MHA, FOK, R&R, ODN(understandable), Citadel mostly.

In NoCB, Most of these alliances are more than guilty of just association, some of them took alot of reps...now tell me How much did IRON extort in NoCB war? RoK fought beside us in NoCB war..so now they are asking us reps for that?

I am not here expectign white peace nor I demand such...we gave white peace long before it became a 'popular' thing..in the same war you guys keep repeating i.e. NoCb war.

So basically we are alleged of same crimes committed by those who are asking IRON biggest reps in history of game.

Edited May 22, 2009 by shahenshah

[mhawk]

Actually given we wont be surrendering any time soon, we'll stop hogging this thread

[Matthew Conrad]

Well think about it. If people aren't going to "ZI" is it really a "ZI" list?

That really doesn't make sense. Someone can be on a ZI list, or PZI list (whatever you prefer), and he is kept in ZI there. He can then get out if the moons align right/makes amends with the alliance. I really don't see how you can't see this as this is how most PZI lists work.

[General Specific]

Taking discussion from TOP topic forward:

Airme's Reply:

Delta:

Mack Truck

So the gist of your response is guilty by association in such issues you listed....lets see who else were involved in the incidents where IRON is charged for guilt of association.

GPA WAar, apart from NPO and Q allies, following Karma members were involved:

FOK, VE, Umbrella and TOP but we have to remember TOP and Umbrella have moved on and have offered white peace all around. Meanwhile Sparta offered political support.

Regarding damage, We've taken alot more damage than GPA.

NoCB war:

Ragnarok, FARK, Sparta, MHA, FOK, R&R, ODN(understandable), Citadel mostly.

In NoCB, Most of these alliances are more than guilty of just association, some of them took alot of reps...now tell me How much did IRON extort in NoCB war? Audacity of situation is RoK and FARK are as responsible as us regarding NoCB war.

Interesting that you bring up the noCB war again here at this time. If any alliance were to be asked to share in paying for their roles in those crimes it should be NPO, GGA, and TPF. The depth of hypocrisy and months of prep work behind the scenes was astounding. Members of the Citadel and alliances like Rok and Fark simply have no idea what a bill of good they were sold. Yes, Sponge was an $@!, but he was an honest $@!. The dishonest "criminals" were the ones who told you they were your friends while they laughed at you behind the scenes for your naivete as you marched on Polaris.

Thank admin for Karma.

[boscher]

Actually given we wont be surrendering any time soon

noted, very good news!

[The Poet]

Holy !@#$ guys, magicpirate just overtook Mogar on the Fishing Competition we've got going on the private Karma coalition boards (they've been up for the past 7 months, you guys were right all along) of who can actually swallow the whole hook, line and sinker the best(?)! Someone let down another rod and let's see if we can give AUT a chance to catch either of them, while we sit back here and laugh privately.

P.S. TimeMaster is kinda like our version of magicpirate/Mogar so sorry bout that one mhawk..

edit: P.P.S.

Regarding damage, We've taken alot more damage than GPA.

Are you sure about that? I recall them going from 60 score --> 14ish

Edited May 22, 2009 by Kraden

[General Specific]

Holy !@#$ guys, magicpirate just overtook Mogar on the Fishing Competition we've got going on the private Karma coalition boards (they've been up for the past 7 months, you guys were right all along) of who can actually swallow the whole hook, line and sinker the best(?)! Someone let down another rod and let's see if we can give AUT a chance to catch either of them, while we sit back here and laugh privately.

P.S. TimeMaster is kinda like our version of magicpirate/Mogar so sorry bout that one mhawk..

edit: P.P.S.

Are you sure about that? I recall them going from 60 score --> 14ish

lol well played.

Did the pirate tell you I bit so hard I pm'd him?

I feel so used and abused.

[Londo Mollari]

Well you can understand frustration when for all intents and purposes TPF isn't the TPF back then. Slayer ran nearly everything back in the day and why he burned out. There isn't even really a record of what happened with athens on our forum so I have no idea wth is going on or we did. It is nice to learn about these things though. Kinda like being brought up on charges of fighting in the civil war at your speeding ticket hearing.

You're still fighting for the same bunch of genocidal monsters that have made sport of tormenting, hunting down, and destroying players, alliances, and alliance communities for the past three years. You want to reinvent yourself, try getting some new allies.

But hey, I'm not the one fighting you. I don't have any particular problem with you now, and I sure won't after you guys surrender and pay whatever reps are asked of you. At the least you have earned some respect for sticking it out as long as NPO and inflicting pretty decent damage on the way down.

Also, Slayer wasn't that bad to us in the noCB war compared to NPO. There is a big reason TPF isn't in our minds much at all when we think of that war and NPO is.

[The Poet]

lol well played.

Did the pirate tell you I bit so hard I pm'd him?

I feel so used and abused.

I think you misunderstood that I was actually mocking magicpirate, you're meant to be on Karma's side and one of the people fishing for his responses with threads like these.. But yeah feel free to jump on in too if you feel you're up to the task, and could maybe outdo him... You'll have to get past AUT and Mogar first though.

[mhawk]

Holy !@#$ guys, magicpirate just overtook Mogar on the Fishing Competition we've got going on the private Karma coalition boards (they've been up for the past 7 months, you guys were right all along) of who can actually swallow the whole hook, line and sinker the best(?)! Someone let down another rod and let's see if we can give AUT a chance to catch either of them, while we sit back here and laugh privately.

P.S. TimeMaster is kinda like our version of magicpirate/Mogar so sorry bout that one mhawk..

edit: P.P.S.

Are you sure about that? I recall them going from 60 score --> 14ish

It's quite fine, I wasn't aware there were issues regarding mk and tpf. I'm slowly learning the ropes with you guys.

EDFD would translate into the former HoT?

TimeMaster would be Mogar/ninja

Airme on me abotu HoTu would be kinda like KK when he thinks about pc vs atarax

Aza would be like a GLU/agnu

Archon would be like the guy getting owned by mhawk.

Edited May 22, 2009 by mhawk

[Edward Curella]

I'll remind you of Poison Clan and Atarax. All who left were to be attacked and their leaders were to be sentenced to PZI when they left (across rerolls, yes), and then the remaining TPF government went to hell in a handbasket trying to make sense of that. Now they have mhawk and that cool deathcat dude trying their damnedest to hold things together.

Man, I love the Vox Populi alliance history archives.

Lolwut

I was never sentenced to PZI, as far as I know. Same goes for every single other member of Atarax - including Ursarkar who liked to piss off Slayer every day. Ursarkar is safe and sound and one of the Atarax re-rolls is actually a member of TPF. So that would make around...6 people out of the 9 original AX members in TPF? Yeah. D34th and Ursar went to Polar and then Ursar went to Pacifica, I think. Then you have Geo - who walked away from the game because he was bored - but then again - not sure what he claimed to you guys at his time in Vox since he was good at claiming many things that were usually far from the truth. For all that's worth, when he left Vox - we were all willing to accept him back into TPF - but he chose to focus in RL.

So yeah...no.

Edit to fix numbers.

Edited May 22, 2009 by Edward Curella

[mhawk]

You're still fighting for the same bunch of genocidal monsters that have made sport of tormenting, hunting down, and destroying players, alliances, and alliance communities for the past three years. You want to reinvent yourself, try getting some new allies.

But hey, I'm not the one fighting you. I don't have any particular problem with you now, and I sure won't after you guys surrender and pay whatever reps are asked of you. At the least you have earned some respect for sticking it out as long as NPO and inflicting pretty decent damage on the way down.

Also, Slayer wasn't that bad to us in the noCB war compared to NPO. There is a big reason TPF isn't in our minds much at all when we think of that war and NPO is.

Honestly before the war happened I wasn't aware TPF fought Athens so there is obviously no hard feelings toward you guys from my end. I just remember TSI wanted to treaty you guys and us saying alright, since it was supposed to be some huge faux pas or something

[shahenshah]

Are you sure about that? I recall them going from 60 score --> 14ish

~46 score.

IRON

75.xx - 28.xx =

~47 AND counting.

regardless..I missed the news of GPA entering Karma side or appointing anyone to speak on their behalf.

Edited May 22, 2009 by shahenshah

[Magnum T. Gundraw]

Can we pay in kittens?

You have lost 72% of your kittens and can no longer supply the proper amount of kittens necessary. I am sorry.