Monty of the Herm Posted October 25, 2015 Report Share Posted October 25, 2015 Interestingly enough, wars where the terms were justified. Oh and EQ too. I wasn't talking about whether terms were justified just giving examples of more messy, longer wars where harsher terms were imposed. I find it rather funny that people are accusing us of destroying "tons of smaller AAs" just for the heck of it like we did pre-Karma when each war the NPO's been in since Karma had legitimate reasons behind them. The last war was in retaliation for Disorder, this war is in response to MI6's bad behavior as an AA and generally how they handle themselves in Bob. The NPO hasn't just stomped AAs on a whim since pre-Karma. The only issue this war has been how we handled the CB on TPF other than that it's been rather straightforward and fairly justifiable, but even the preempt on TPF was because we knew even if TPF was told by MI6 to stay out of this they would've defended them anyways, because we know who they are as allies, and they don't let their allies burn alone. That's who TPF are, loyal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dochartaigh Posted October 25, 2015 Report Share Posted October 25, 2015 Oh and EQ too. I wasn't talking about whether terms were justified just giving examples of more messy, longer wars where harsher terms were imposed. I find it rather funny that people are accusing us of destroying "tons of smaller AAs" just for the heck of it like we did pre-Karma when each war the NPO's been in since Karma had legitimate reasons behind them. The last war was in retaliation for Disorder, this war is in response to MI6's bad behavior as an AA and generally how they handle themselves in Bob. The NPO hasn't just stomped AAs on a whim since pre-Karma. The only issue this war has been how we handled the CB on TPF other than that it's been rather straightforward and fairly justifiable, but even the preempt on TPF was because we knew even if TPF was told by MI6 to stay out of this they would've defended them anyways, because we know who they are as allies, and they don't let their allies burn alone. That's who TPF are, loyal. So when is Oculus rolling tanks on NG then? Because let's face it, NG act far worse than anything MI6 has done, so if you wish to use the reason that MI6 are a bunch of assholes, then please continue this action against assholes of CN by rolling the fuck outta NG. Otherwise, your reason is bullshit and you know it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Groucho Marx Posted October 25, 2015 Report Share Posted October 25, 2015 Now hold on a minute there, partner. NG is a different kind of pretentiously terrible from MI6. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monty of the Herm Posted October 25, 2015 Report Share Posted October 25, 2015 So when is Oculus rolling tanks on NG then? Because let's face it, NG act far worse than anything MI6 has done, so if you wish to use the reason that MI6 are a bunch of !@#$%^&, then please continue this action against !@#$%^& of CN by rolling the $%&@ outta NG. Otherwise, your reason is !@#$%^&* and you know it. I find it hilarious that you didn't have an actual counter to my statement about NPO not rolling AA's on a whim since pre-Karma, you just went off because we have reason to be fighting you and your only response is to question why we don't hit our own allies. To my knowledge (not speaking in any official government capacity) NG doesn't actively poach members from other AAs. As our ally they actually listen to our input on actions (ie when they wanted to attack Polar right after EQ we told them it wasn't a good idea and so they didn't). So we don't really have a reason to end our treaty with NG much less roll them either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hombre Sabio Posted October 25, 2015 Report Share Posted October 25, 2015 Umbrellas are worthless if it's not raining. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devilyn Caster Posted October 25, 2015 Report Share Posted October 25, 2015 I find it hilarious that you didn't have an actual counter to my statement about NPO not rolling AA's on a whim since pre-Karma, you just went off because we have reason to be fighting you and your only response is to question why we don't hit our own allies. To my knowledge (not speaking in any official government capacity) NG doesn't actively poach members from other AAs. As our ally they actually listen to our input on actions (ie when they wanted to attack Polar right after EQ we told them it wasn't a good idea and so they didn't). So we don't really have a reason to end our treaty with NG much less roll them either. Holy shit quit it with the fucking poaching accusation already, it's old as fuck and no one who actually has a say in anything important (aka not you) gives a shit about it. Poaching was a CB when all alliances were active. It is not a CB today. You hit us because you don't like us. Don't sell it as anything else because no one is fucking buying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Hitchcock Posted October 25, 2015 Report Share Posted October 25, 2015 I had a strange dream last night wherein I inherited an ancient oriental shape shifting monkey from my father that sent messages to me through a calculator if I crushed a faerie in my hand and rubbed its blood on the keys. The messages came out in a strange script I didn't recognize, so it was a challenge getting them translated. I'd go through the hassle of attempting to find out what it meant, and despite the seemingly consequential method of delivery, the message was always something like "I want to be fed" or "too bad there aren't any ancient oriental shape shifting monkey females in the area tonight." The facts of the case are clear. They are not in dispute. I see what you did here, and this is much clearer than Shimmers' Shenanigans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dochartaigh Posted October 25, 2015 Report Share Posted October 25, 2015 I find it hilarious that you didn't have an actual counter to my statement about NPO not rolling AA's on a whim since pre-Karma, you just went off because we have reason to be fighting you and your only response is to question why we don't hit our own allies. To my knowledge (not speaking in any official government capacity) NG doesn't actively poach members from other AAs. As our ally they actually listen to our input on actions (ie when they wanted to attack Polar right after EQ we told them it wasn't a good idea and so they didn't). So we don't really have a reason to end our treaty with NG much less roll them either. Poaching? Is it 2013? That was the last time that MI6 even jokingly attempted to poach anyone. Hell, the only time MI6 and poaching are even brought up nowadays is by people feeding the line about what MI6 did 2 years ago. What is even more amusing is that Oculus did not even list poaching as a reason for the war. So, you may want to try and get on the same page as your leadership bro. You may not end up looking stupid instead. Oh wait... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Zone Elite Posted October 25, 2015 Report Share Posted October 25, 2015 Tbh bones doesn't scare anyone. Peace came because Oculus saw no stratigic gain in keeping minc at war. (Hypothesis someone in Oculus correct me if wrong) Man, I love you, but you know this makes no sense. If BONES hadn't post his ultimatum, Oculus would have outright rejected any peace offer from MInc (not saying MInc was asking for peace, cause it seems they didn't), strategic gain or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neo Uruk Posted October 25, 2015 Report Share Posted October 25, 2015 It is, but it's still got no connection to anything ...Doch says MI6 won't sign onto a war unless they feel it's worth it .... What's it gotta do with us "deserving" to get our butts kicked in Disorder? Nothing.There's no correlation between this and that. Incoherent babbling ...MI6 didn't sign onto Disorder? Weird. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dochartaigh Posted October 25, 2015 Report Share Posted October 25, 2015 MI6 didn't sign onto Disorder? Weird. heh, revisionism much? You realize that MI6 was not in the lead on that one right? NpO/Fark/TOP were the leads with NpO the primary pusher. MI6 went to war because NPO hit our ally TOP. MI6 was not allied to NpO at the time so if someone was plotting a war on them, it did little to affect us except for TOP. So if TOP got hit defending NpO, then we would enter. So, did we fight on opposite sides of NSO? Yes. Did we sign off on NSO getting hit? No. Our ally at the time TOP did though. Weird using facts instead of whatever shit it is you using. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmansfield68 Posted October 25, 2015 Report Share Posted October 25, 2015 Just so damned glad everyone survived. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vol Navy Posted October 25, 2015 Report Share Posted October 25, 2015 Apparently someone in the prior comments didn't see Cuba absolutely decimate huge tech nations one by one, if they somehow don't think the top 6 in SPATR would be able to war them effectively. Less than 20 DB nations destroyed one of the 3 largest tech stock piles in the world at the time. If that top 6 declared 24 wars and had 18 declared on them, they'd come out relatively unscathed after a round of war and 42 NPOculus nations would be in ruins. Thus we see the Monty Pythonesque retreat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caladin Posted October 25, 2015 Report Share Posted October 25, 2015 Apparently someone in the prior comments didn't see Cuba absolutely decimate huge tech nations one by one, if they somehow don't think the top 6 in SPATR would be able to war them effectively. Less than 20 DB nations destroyed one of the 3 largest tech stock piles in the world at the time. If that top 6 declared 24 wars and had 18 declared on them, they'd come out relatively unscathed after a round of war and 42 NPOculus nations would be in ruins. Thus we see the Monty Pythonesque retreat. Uhhhh. Why would we declare three more wars on each before the first wars expire? Also, go look at the numbers I ran for BONES; they're accurate for the most part, though they underestimate by maybe 10% for bones and 20% for NPO (the NPO nations, due to their superior numbers, will break through their opponents fleets relatively quickly and then be able to run battle support, while neither side includes CM's or GA's) To put it simply, SPATR is no threat to either the top tier of NPO or Oculus - the most damage they could reasonably deal is 150,000 tech over two months, and that is considerably less than the NPO imports in that period. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neo Uruk Posted October 25, 2015 Report Share Posted October 25, 2015 revisionism much?Sure, I guess ma--NpO/Fark/TOP were the leads with NpO the primary pusher. MI6 went to war because NPO hit our ally TOP. heh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the rebel Posted October 25, 2015 Report Share Posted October 25, 2015 To put it simply, SPATR is no threat to either the top tier of NPO or Oculus - the most damage they could reasonably deal is 150,000 tech over two months, and that is considerably less than the NPO imports in that period. With the numerous multi membership deals that corner of the web has, it disingenuous to say it was no threat at all. As there was an obvious threat otherwise the whole of Oculus (remember an attack on one is an attack on all - as constantly stated to STA and the world) wouldn't of given peace to a handful of low tier nations at Minc. You may shift hundreds of thousands of tech in a month but it would of took over a year per affected nation of free tech to rebuild those top tier nations back to prime pre-war levels. If Oculus didn't receive that threat they would of just pounded on Minc like all the other alliances did just recently and not call uncle on the situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devialance Posted October 25, 2015 Report Share Posted October 25, 2015 Uhhhh. Why would we declare three more wars on each before the first wars expire? Also, go look at the numbers I ran for BONES; they're accurate for the most part, though they underestimate by maybe 10% for bones and 20% for NPO (the NPO nations, due to their superior numbers, will break through their opponents fleets relatively quickly and then be able to run battle support, while neither side includes CM's or GA's) To put it simply, SPATR is no threat to either the top tier of NPO or Oculus - the most damage they could reasonably deal is 150,000 tech over two months, and that is considerably less than the NPO imports in that period. This was fun to read, The question you have to ask yourself is who are you trying to convince, yourself/NPO or the rest of us? As it stands right now, Bones damned you do something and you did it and the funny thing is, it had taken you less than 24 hours from claiming that Minc did not want peace to giving them peace with no terms whatsoever, Even had members of Oculus claiming due to Bones actions Minc would never get peace. So I have one question for your little number game you are playing, DO YOU really think it would have just been SPATR, think carefully about that, NPO as in pre karma was abusing their power at the top the main reason you got curb stomped, Now NPO is abusing its power at the top yet again, you have become power drunk, seems NPO's true evil enemy is yourselves. Smell the air NPO, history has a strange way of repeating itself karma always find its target. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hartfw Posted October 25, 2015 Report Share Posted October 25, 2015 Monster Inc did agree to no re-entry (unless a specified ally was hit in a defensive war). As of right now, Monsters Inc has lost 69% of their NS, 72% of their infrastructure, and 43% of their tech. I cannot speak for anyone else, but for me personally, those are pretty decent loss numbers. Given those numbers and the amicable nature of talks, I'm not surprised that peace would result. As I said early, I thought they were pretty swell talks, as no one was there to grandstand or do the things normally associated with peace talks. Which is probably a testament to best practices -- always invite methrage to help mediate and conduct talks in an unsecured channel announced publicly on the owf prior to the talks. In terms of the role played by Bones, it definitely was a fascinating one. Neither Oculus nor Monsters Inc knew Monsters Inc wanted peace until Bones made us both aware of it. If people want, I'm sure you can spin that as Bones scaring both sides. Or whichever side they want for their political reasons. But mostly I suspect this will not be the end of the role played by Bones in global events, and look forward to the increase in global stability that will inevitably result. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hartfw Posted October 25, 2015 Report Share Posted October 25, 2015 Also, for those of you reading this, Caladin has defeated 90% of you with only 10% of your losses, and will provide the math upon request. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Hitchcock Posted October 25, 2015 Report Share Posted October 25, 2015 (edited) Monster Inc did agree to no re-entry (unless a specified ally was hit in a defensive war). As of right now, Monsters Inc has lost 69% of their NS, 72% of their infrastructure, and 43% of their tech. I cannot speak for anyone else, but for me personally, those are pretty decent loss numbers. Given those numbers and the amicable nature of talks, I'm not surprised that peace would result. As I said early, I thought they were pretty swell talks, as no one was there to grandstand or do the things normally associated with peace talks. Which is probably a testament to best practices -- always invite methrage to help mediate and conduct talks in an unsecured channel announced publicly on the owf prior to the talks. In terms of the role played by Bones, it definitely was a fascinating one. Neither Oculus nor Monsters Inc knew Monsters Inc wanted peace until Bones made us both aware of it. If people want, I'm sure you can spin that as Bones scaring both sides. Or whichever side they want for their political reasons. But mostly I suspect this will not be the end of the role played by Bones in global events, and look forward to the increase in global stability that will inevitably result. Those losses may seem significant, and with the small numbers we have it is expected for those number to be volatile- In short, all it really did was plant us into a soft lower tier where our nuclear nations / wonder heavy nations had opportunities to fight non nuclear nations with more-than-enough money flowing in. We knew that would occur and I told members not to re-buy infra- just sink and enjoy. And the peace talks- Oculus attempted to waterboard M Inc by bringing Methrage in before morning coffee. The 'agreed to non re-enter the war' was simply because we didn't expect to, unless the conditions of the agreement were broken. And I agree, the talks were easy- SPTR gave us the option on what we wanted to do- we weighed both options and felt that a PR nightmare was the better option. It did more damage that the whole TPF/MI6/STA coalition could have done (and it did). Also, for those of you reading this, Caladin has defeated 90% of you with only 10% of your losses, and will provide the math upon request. I really hope this comment receives the attention it deserves. For being Grub supporters, I see no reason why Calidin is not put into power over at NPO. In a non sarcastic tone, Calidin can 'run the numbers' all he wants- everything looks good on paper, what he doesn't grasp is that NPOs top tier would actually have to burn- and let's face it... people like Malstrom Vortex would actually have to burn, you know, the idiot who always screams he 'loves war'.... calidin could shove numbers up his ass- and malstrom would still be hovering to enter peace mode. let me repeat that... malstrom vortex.... let me repeat this.... Calidin for NPO emperor! Oculus- may your break up be slow and painful. Edited October 25, 2015 by Lord Hitchcock Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hartfw Posted October 25, 2015 Report Share Posted October 25, 2015 Those losses may seem significant, and with the small numbers we have it is expected for those number to be volatile- In short, all it really did was plant us into a soft lower tier where our nuclear nations / wonder heavy nations had opportunities to fight non nuclear nations with more-than-enough money flowing in. Your nations look to have been about even in damage against such under wondered nations, which is either a bitter indictment of them or a brilliant compliment to the soft NPO underbelly. I'm not seeing a PR nightmare in letting someone leave with a 70% NS haircut, although I've never been much of a PR man so I will happily let the others debate that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Hitchcock Posted October 25, 2015 Report Share Posted October 25, 2015 (edited) Your nations look to have been about even in damage against such under wondered nations, which is either a bitter indictment of them or a brilliant compliment to the soft NPO underbelly. I'm not seeing a PR nightmare in letting someone leave with a 70% NS haircut, although I've never been much of a PR man so I will happily let the others debate that. You are really relying on those numbers aren't ya- I expect you to push for Calidin as Emperor any day now. You are not a true Grub voter unless you instill the same principles of fair play, freedom, and useless dialogue into the head of Oculus, NPO. Edited October 25, 2015 by Lord Hitchcock Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hartfw Posted October 25, 2015 Report Share Posted October 25, 2015 You are really relying on those numbers aren't ya- I expect you to push for Calidin as Emperor any day now. You are not a true Grub voter unless you instill the same principles of fair play, freedom, and useless dialogue into the head of Oculus, NPO. Facts are useful things. Similarly, it is a fact that Caladin has never been mistaken for Grub. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shahenshah Posted October 25, 2015 Report Share Posted October 25, 2015 (edited) As it stands right now, Bones damned you do something Yea, after all the bravado, he went and convinced (heh) M Inc to go take the peace with no entry string, who at that point had given no indication of peace and for us tbh its just a matter of closing a front that we never intended to open in first place. They were beaten up as Hart mentions and what more was to be done with them? Force reps? Move rubble? The NS being destroyed at the time could be rebuilt with week of aid drops. The cost benefit just didn't work out. M Inc were good sports about it. Sorry, you didn't get what you had hoped for, it seems like neither we or the M Inc/SPATR cared about it either. This whole line of cowardness is just an emotional outburst of shattered hopes and drooling, which is stupid. While everyone has a right to be stupid, some people just abuse that right. I would infact, like to offer my thanks to SPATR in convincing their friends to close the front we never intended to start. Edited October 25, 2015 by shahenshah Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Hitchcock Posted October 25, 2015 Report Share Posted October 25, 2015 (edited) Facts are useful things. Similarly, it is a fact that Caladin has never been mistaken for Grub. You may be onto something here.... Grub lacks vision. Caladin has a clear path for NPO and meat-shields- and it only makes sense that he replace Letum in leading NPOculus. Letum has failed NPOculus on all fronts- and this is something that Calidin would not allow. Now Calidin may be bad at attempting to spin a PR trainwreck for NPOculus in their (your) favor- but non-the-less, his numbers speak for themselves. "Facts are useful things" Edited October 25, 2015 by Lord Hitchcock Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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