Oculus' Second Decree

[Judge X]

Every year until I took over. Maybe if you take your head out your back side you could read a bit better.

[Neo Uruk]

The hell if I can read most of your gibberish, but fair point -- if you took over in 2010, which I'm pretty sure you didn't.

Edited October 18, 2015 by Neo Uruk

[Branimir]

Ok.

 

It is not couple of months since July of 2009 when 'karma' ended, and the first thing NPO did after is to drop the treaty with TPF and be in a block that attacked it.

It is not even couple of months since May 2011 when Doomhouse finished rolling, and the first thing NPO did after is to drop the treaty with TPF and be in a block that attacked it.

 

It is October of 2015. So yeah, many things happened in between. NPO-TPF relations strained due to different political visions. A lot of effort was put into salvaging that thing but eventually it broke. Both sides gave even too much effort into keeping it. No one side can be blamed for not trying. But realities can not be changed. We started to differ. Over the years it became more and more clearer. NPO can not be in a small sandbox with some few we dont have some historical grievance going around ridding some imaginary moral high ground. That is not us.

 

TPF is free to feel and do whatever they want. But lets not lose all perspective here. Like we didn't have our problems over the years. Gave our best to fix it for as long as we held a treaty, which was fair amount of time, but eventually it all added up to too much.

 

Final moves prior to this event both sides did knowingly of consequences. TPF had to know what allying MI6 entailed, NPO had to know what becoming member of Oculus entailed.

[Rayvon]

Final moves prior to this event both sides did knowingly of consequences. TPF had to know what allying MI6 entailed, NPO had to know what becoming member of Oculus entailed.

 

And of all the available options in Oculus, Pacifica had to be the hand that smacked them ... THIS is the problem ... Yes - they knew they weren't going the path of Oculus, that's been discussed heavy already while you Pacificans play down and ignore the facts of the relationships between some of your friends and TPF ... You put it all on "TPF didn't stay in our shadow in Oculus" and that's that ... 

[Branimir]

 

And of all the available options in Oculus, Pacifica had to be the hand that smacked them ... THIS is the problem ... Yes - they knew they weren't going the path of Oculus, that's been discussed heavy already while you Pacificans play down and ignore the facts of the relationships between some of your friends and TPF ... You put it all on "TPF didn't stay in our shadow in Oculus" and that's that ... 

 

We are a part of the block that attacked TPF. You may not like us for that. Go right ahead.

 

But as it also must be clear by now, TPF and us didn't see eye to eye politically for a while now. TPF not liking our treaties, and then eventually we not liking one of their treaty. We both put a lot of effort into keeping our treaty despite this differences. And managed for quite some time. But obviously, in the end it broke down. We just do not jive anymore. How they want to navigate the political specter and how we want to are different things at this point.

 

Prior to cancellation of our treaty there were lengthy talks. Efforts were made but they failed. And we both made our moves according to our political visions with pending results.

Edited October 18, 2015 by Branimir

[Link Gaetz]

 

We are a part of the block that attacked TPF. You may not like us for that. Go right ahead.

 

But as it also must be clear by now, TPF and us didn't see eye to eye politically for a while now. TPF not liking our treaties, and then eventually we not liking their treaties. We both put a lot of effort into keeping our treaty despite this differences. And managed for quite some time. But obviously, in the end it broke down. We just do not jive anymore. How they want to navigate the political specter and how we want to are different things at this point.

 

Prior to cancellation of our treaty there were lengthy talks. Efforts were made but they failed. And we both made our moves according to our political visions with pending results.

What treaty did we have, other than MI6, that you didn't like?

[Branimir]

What treaty did we have, other than MI6, that you didn't like?

 

You are correct. Using plural there was my mistake in typing. Indeed, beside the MI6 one, no other was a problem from our point of view.

 

I hope you accept my apology, I didnt wanted to exaggerate although that is how it ended up looking. I will edit the incorrect part.

[LittleRena]

 

You are correct. Using plural there was my mistake in typing. Indeed, beside the MI6 one, no other was a problem from our point of view.

 

I hope you accept my apology, I didnt wanted to exaggerate although that is how it ended up looking. I will edit the incorrect part.

 

Could I also suggest you update your signature? It doesn't look to be accurate anymore.

[Branimir]

Could I also suggest you update your signature? It doesn't look to be accurate anymore.

I believe you just did.

[Master Holton]

I believe you just did.

 

Could I suggest you go back to your old avatar? Your current doesn't look accurate anymore.

[IYIyTh]

 

You are correct. Using plural there was my mistake in typing. Indeed, beside the MI6 one, no other was a problem from our point of view.

 

I hope you accept my apology, I didnt wanted to exaggerate although that is how it ended up looking. I will edit the incorrect part.

 

This flies in the face of what your emperor and other FA folks have said about MI6 not being an issue what so ever. Apparently y'all can't make up your mind.

 

In your defense I would have a tough time keeping up with all the double talk you've managed the past several months too.

Edited October 19, 2015 by IYIyTh

[Petro]

 

This flies in the face of what your emperor and other FA folks have said about MI6 not being an issue what so ever. Apparently y'all can't make up your mind.

 

In your defense I would have a tough time keeping up with all the double talk you've managed the past several months too.

 

Don't sell yourself short, I'm sure you could.

[Link Gaetz]

 

You are correct. Using plural there was my mistake in typing. Indeed, beside the MI6 one, no other was a problem from our point of view.

 

I hope you accept my apology, I didnt wanted to exaggerate although that is how it ended up looking. I will edit the incorrect part.

Fair enough.  I just didn't want it to sound like TPF had made a series of problematic moves in NPO's eyes, rather than just one, given that NPO had already at the time made a number of problematic moves in TPF's eyes.

[Vol Navy]

Oh no, you signed a treaty and had to honor it! The terror.

Now, mind answering how you've burnt every year for NPO?
 
So, tell me how much NS TPF lost in 2010, 2012, and 2014 for NPO.

 

Your reading comprehension is not the best is it? We fought in multiple wars and specifically didn't activate our treaty with Pacifica so they'd have more time to recover. I have never complained about having to honor a treaty, but obviously I should have since this crap was coming. As to your other reading comprehension fail.  In 2010 we fought on the losing side in BiPolar and didn't activate our Pacifica treaty so they'd have more time to get over Karma. In 2012 we fought VE in defense of NPO after VE dow'd them. In 2014 we declined to participate in their CBless rolling of  NpO/SN, as we had allies getting attacked by their coalition.  It's the only time that NPO was at war between 2008 and now that we didn't fight along side of them.

[Neo Uruk]

So, to recap: In 2010, you didn't burn for Pacifica.

In 2012, you DoW'd VE along with several alliances in a lopsided conflict -- not "burning" for Pacifica.

In 2014, you also did not burn for Pacifica.

[Vol Navy]

So, to recap: In 2010, you didn't burn for Pacifica.

In 2012, you DoW'd VE along with several alliances in a lopsided conflict -- not "burning" for Pacifica.

In 2014, you also did not burn for Pacifica.

 

So to recap, in 2010 and 2011 we bent over backwards to keep Pacifica out of wars, even if it meant burning while they didn't have to. In 2012 we declared on VE for the sole reason of defending NPO. VE's nukes did damage much like any other nukes. I clearly stated we did not in 2014 defend NPO. 

[Neo Uruk]

I'm almost certain that NPO was not out of their Karma terms until after you idiots managed to get caught in spy attempts on several alliances. Please try again.

In 2012, you didn't burn, as was stated. You waged a one-sided war against VE.

[Monty of the Herm]

I'm almost certain that NPO was not out of their Karma terms until after you idiots managed to get caught in spy attempts on several alliances. Please try again.

In 2012, you didn't burn, as was stated. You waged a one-sided war against VE.

 

We completed paying the Karma reparations in May of 2010.

[shahenshah]

I'm almost certain that NPO was not out of their Karma terms until after you idiots managed to get caught in spy attempts on several alliances. Please try again.

In 2012, you didn't burn, as was stated. You waged a one-sided war against VE.

 

The spyings had occurred months prior to the actual war declaration, I believe the gap was of 6 months plus. Some at that time genuinely but mistakenly believed CBs were what triggered wars but obviously it was done to beat up one of the corners of the bloc that was down and defeated.Q alliances who had'nt embraced the new hegemony were to be lined up and beaten up once more after Karma, it was just part of that cycle, the connection between spying and the conflict was no deeper than just rhetoric. We were all going to be beaten up and at the time, that decision was not in our control or for that matter for anyone on that side of the politics. 

Edited October 20, 2015 by shahenshah

[Neo Uruk]

So, well after TPF "didn't activate" their treaty to save you from war. Wow, you should really show some gratitude towards TPF for not having you fight wars while still under terms!

The spyings had occurred months prior to the actual war declaration, I believe the gap was of 6 months plus. Some at that time genuinely but mistakenly believed CBs were what triggered wars but obviously it was done to beat up one of the corners of the bloc that was down and defeated.

Of course that's why the war took place. In that era, though, C&G/SF didn't have quite the political capital to just make shit up and declare war, as the threat of Citadel/Frostbite reacting negatively would always be there, as was seen in the buildup/non-buildup of the TPF War. Edited October 20, 2015 by Neo Uruk

[shahenshah]

So, well after TPF "didn't activate" their treaty to save you from war. Wow, you should really show some gratitude towards TPF for not having you fight wars while still under terms!


Of course that's why the war took place. In that era, though, C&G/SF didn't have quite the political capital to just make !@#$ up and declare war, as the threat of Citadel/Frostbite reacting negatively would always be there, as was seen in the buildup/non-buildup of the TPF War.

The coalition of mostly battered alliances took about week to assemble with negotiations on going in parallel, and at the same time alot of people on both sides started to PM, LM had some plan, we were going to fight in tiers we had advantage and avoid, the other side would do the same, causing minimal engagements, anyway, war begun but peace was agreed.

 

NPO was well under the terms and would remain so for months, and given the brutality of Karma terms, the other side was just looking for reasons to impose even harsher terms on NPO. Hence, NPO was never seriously considered and under intense pressure of reps, nobody seriously at the time even considered calling NPO in, calling them in would have been stupid and too much to ask, the conflict appeared localized, calling NPO would be calling in the whole of Karma back on, that would be stupid, stirring the pot there would be bad for them and bad for TPF and bad for everyone else working to sort it out Bravado is only good until rhetoric, we ALL saw what it was, we ALL agreed to our plan A and plan B and we worked on it and got it. 

 

Your original points alleging TPF were idiots for getting caught, dude, the alleged spying had occurred during the Karma and the end of war terms stipulated all hostilities were to cease and they were ceased. It was a trap and for some reason, SF decided not to pursue the matters,  we saw the opportunity to end the obviously loosing-conflict and ALL parties on our side decided to end it when we could.

 

But also saying people burned for NPO at that point is also plain wrong, NPO was no where in picture due to reps. We didnt want to bring them in to picture, it would be impossible for them and bad for everyone and instantly start Karma 2.0, nobody wanted that.

 

We were all going to be beaten up because we refused to play nice after our beating. That was that. Nobody burned for NPO in winter of 2009/start of 2010 and saying otherwise is a stretch if not outright lie, that's a poor attempt to guilt trip NPO even amongst countless other attempts here. We were all slated to burn, because we refused to take off the uniforms. Hegemony was dead de facto, but many thought we hadnt been beaten enough and it was still there on paper and we all got targeted until that we were all beaten again. Anyway, all in all, SF got theirs too, especially Ragnarok/GOD, which brings warmth to my heart whenever I think about it. 

 

Regards

Edited October 20, 2015 by shahenshah

[Letum]

Fair enough.  I just didn't want it to sound like TPF had made a series of problematic moves in NPO's eyes, rather than just one, given that NPO had already at the time made a number of problematic moves in TPF's eyes.

 

To clarify, it's not as if TPF decided to sign up with Mi6 and suddenly everything turned sour. Both sides had problems with the relationship well before that, and we came very close to cancelling it last year. TPF obviously had their issues with our treaty choices in NSO, NG and Umb, as well as our military choices in every war after Equilibrium. We also had issues with the conduct of their representatives in the coalition boards during Disorder, the manner of their exit, with their (mutual) fighting and brinkmanship with NSO during and after the war, with the delivery of an ultimatum for that treaty, and with their Mi6 treaty. Added on top of that you had a general lack of communication between the two alliances that by itself would have been a relationship killer.

 

If TPF and NPO had been any two other alliances, the treaty would not have existed for several years now. There was a literal mountain of problems.

[Dochartaigh]

hahahahaha Rey, trying so hard to suck up to NPO/Oculus, he is starting to piss off even Oculus members with his shit. 

[Monty of the Herm]

So, well after TPF "didn't activate" their treaty to save you from war. Wow, you should really show some gratitude towards TPF for not having you fight wars while still under terms!


Of course that's why the war took place. In that era, though, C&G/SF didn't have quite the political capital to just make !@#$ up and declare war, as the threat of Citadel/Frostbite reacting negatively would always be there, as was seen in the buildup/non-buildup of the TPF War.

 

I'm not exactly sure how TPF could've protected us from wars while we were under the Karma Coalition terms since one of Karma's terms was we had to cancel all our treaties... The only treaty that wasn't officially cancelled at the time was a NAP we had with IRON from early in the game that for some reason went unnoticed by the Karma Coalition.

[Neo Uruk]

hahahahaha Rey, trying so hard to suck up to NPO/Oculus, he is starting to piss off even Oculus members with his !@#$.

You're trying really hard to make this into something it isn't.