Natan Posted October 12, 2015 Report Share Posted October 12, 2015 The problem people are seeing with Oculus so far is that it doesn't seem to attempt to establish an actual hegemony but operates more like an exclusive oligarchy that only acts in the interests of Oculus members. What fundamentally separates a hegemony from an oligarchy is that a hegemony takes into account the interests of everyone while an oligarchy does not. That doesn't necessarily mean a hegemony is beneficial to everyone, but hegemonic powers attempt to clearly communicate their position in such a manner as to avoid unnecessary confusion. What we have seen with Oculus thus far is a high level of unpredictability for non-Oculus members, reflected in actions like lack of notifying non-Oculus members or not clearly communicating a casus belli. There's nothing "wrong" with the approach Oculus takes, but it is destabilizing in nature and puts other powers ill at ease. What a time to be alive, welcome to the new politics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slayer99 Posted October 12, 2015 Report Share Posted October 12, 2015 So Pacifica is free to ally NG, NSO, and Umbrella, all alliances TPF considered enemies, and that's kosher, but when TPF does the same thing, it's a valid reason to cancel on them and roll them? Work on your propaganda. Apparently it's all good so long as the meat shields do the master's bidding.... For 8 years, we had been allied to NPO. They sign treaties with a bunch of people we don't like. We sign one treaty they don't like then they turn around and roll us a couple months after they cancel on us? Seems like I made a horrible mistake in picking our friends if that's how fair weather they are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleRena Posted October 12, 2015 Report Share Posted October 12, 2015 It's been a long time since I've been here, but how things change. Quite shocking really NPO, but I've never had the chance to experience permawar, I look forward to the oppotunity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mogar Posted October 12, 2015 Report Share Posted October 12, 2015 Apparently it's all good so long as the meat shields do the master's bidding.... For 8 years, we had been allied to NPO. They sign treaties with a bunch of people we don't like. We sign one treaty they don't like then they turn around and roll us a couple months after they cancel on us? Seems like I made a horrible mistake in picking our friends if that's how fair weather they are. I normally enjoy being able to say I told you so, but this was one that even I didn't really believe would occur. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dajobo Posted October 12, 2015 Report Share Posted October 12, 2015 I like MI6 and TPF and yet this decision has made me very happy. Well done Oculus! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neo Uruk Posted October 12, 2015 Report Share Posted October 12, 2015 Apparently it's all good so long as the meat shields do the master's bidding.... For 8 years, we had been allied to NPO. They sign treaties with a bunch of people we don't like. We sign one treaty they don't like then they turn around and roll us a couple months after they cancel on us? Seems like I made a horrible mistake in picking our friends if that's how fair weather they are.So you feel as if you're entitled to loyalty, despite your treaty having not been activated in about 2 years -- and that's not counting all the fussing and bitching that occurred when it was activated. Oh, and the fact you agreed to sit tight and then immediately bailed. The problem people are seeing with Oculus so far is that it doesn't seem to attempt to establish an actual hegemony but operates more like an exclusive oligarchy that only acts in the interests of Oculus members.What fundamentally separates a hegemony from an oligarchy is that a hegemony takes into account the interests of everyone while an oligarchy does not. That doesn't necessarily mean a hegemony is beneficial to everyone, but hegemonic powers attempt to clearly communicate their position in such a manner as to avoid unnecessary confusion.What we have seen with Oculus thus far is a high level of unpredictability for non-Oculus members, reflected in actions like lack of notifying non-Oculus members or not clearly communicating a casus belli.There's nothing "wrong" with the approach Oculus takes, but it is destabilizing in nature and puts other powers ill at ease.I would buy into this if I didn't know better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sargun II Posted October 12, 2015 Report Share Posted October 12, 2015 I'm glad you've made some really good, factual posts regarding this. Your shitposts speak for themselves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neo Uruk Posted October 12, 2015 Report Share Posted October 12, 2015 So since you can't explain to me how I'm incoherent, can you please get back on topic eh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sargun II Posted October 12, 2015 Report Share Posted October 12, 2015 So since you can't explain to me how I'm incoherent, can you please get back on topic eh? Well, you've yet to explain how several months worth of diplomacy and attempts to repair relationships while others constantly antagonize us counts as "two years worth of manipulating" but hey that may just be the incoherent rambling of a failure of a foreign affairs approach rather than a personal failure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Zigur Posted October 12, 2015 Report Share Posted October 12, 2015 (edited) Rey the only reason you are shit posting against MI6 is because you happen to dislike them more at this second than when you were heroically shit posting against NPO a couple weeks ago. Edited October 12, 2015 by Immortan Junka Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neo Uruk Posted October 12, 2015 Report Share Posted October 12, 2015 Well, you've yet to explain how several months worth of diplomacy and attempts to repair relationships while others constantly antagonize us counts as "two years worth of manipulating" but hey that may just be the incoherent rambling of a failure of a foreign affairs approach rather than a personal failure.Because several months worth of diplomacy was coupled with two years of manipulating. Why should Oculus have taken any handshakes offered by MI6 seriously when incidents like the Sengoku logs and the entire Atlas incident -- which was fucking stupid on Chim's part even if his gamble had paid off -- were sitting right there with no real solutions. Rey the only reason you are !@#$ posting against MI6 is because you happen to dislike them more at this second than when you were heroically !@#$ posting against NPO a couple weeks ago.I've critiqued both sides; not sure if you've noticed. Going out of their way to hit TPF was dumb, but I have no moral quandaries with it like those who think NPO is eternally indebted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sargun II Posted October 12, 2015 Report Share Posted October 12, 2015 Because several months worth of diplomacy was coupled with two years of manipulating. Why should Oculus have taken any handshakes offered by MI6 seriously when incidents like the Sengoku logs and the entire Atlas incident -- which was !@#$@#$ stupid on Chim's part even if his gamble had paid off -- were sitting right there with no real solutions. Ah, the old trope of "everything that happens to involve MI6 is actually a large master plan of our manipulation and scheming against every alliance", even when it makes no sense whatsoever. I don't know why I expected better of you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheListener Posted October 12, 2015 Report Share Posted October 12, 2015 Ah, the old trope of "everything that happens to involve MI6 is actually a large master plan of our manipulation and scheming against every alliance", even when it makes no sense whatsoever. I don't know why I expected better of you. No I think he's more arguing that the shots that MI6 took were handled in the worst possible way, my own work included. MI6 had a couple chances to get out of this shit but fumbled them at every chance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neo Uruk Posted October 12, 2015 Report Share Posted October 12, 2015 (edited) Ah, the old trope of "everything that happens to involve MI6 is actually a large master plan of our manipulation and scheming against every alliance", even when it makes no sense whatsoever. I don't know why I expected better of you.Er, wanna explain to me how "we want to ally Sengoku to make it easier to attack their allies" and "I'm not going to tell you about a coup attempt right under your nose" aren't attempts at manipulation or scheming?edit: and yes, before someone chimes in, that is a benefit of signing a treaty, in the right situation... but only somebody with ill intentions would actually say it out loud. Edited October 12, 2015 by Neo Uruk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the rebel Posted October 12, 2015 Report Share Posted October 12, 2015 (edited) edit: and yes, before someone chimes in, that is a benefit of signing a treaty, in the right situation... but only somebody with ill intentions would actually say it out loud. That's called being honest, I know it's not in some peoples vocabulary around here. Most of the time those with ill intentions will keep quite about it, so they can cash in on those intentions. Edited October 12, 2015 by the rebel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neo Uruk Posted October 12, 2015 Report Share Posted October 12, 2015 That's called being honest, I know it's not in some peoples vocabulary around here. Most of the time those with ill intentions will keep quite about it, so they can capitulate on those intentions.Er, no? Being honest and being obtuse are different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supercoolyellow Posted October 12, 2015 Report Share Posted October 12, 2015 So many Occulus posters just don't get it. What's at stake is how much can NPO's allies can trust them. TPF has burned multiple times and have shown unfailing loyalty to NPO. Instead of rewarding TPF with even token respect, NPO has led Occulus to go out of their way to attack TPF just for the sake of fun. NPO's current set of allies are going to look at that and think "why would we want to burn for that." You would think that NPO would have learned from their shitty leadership of the Equilibrium War, that how they conduct themselves in one war has great repercussions on how they fare in the following. I guess they will have to be taught twice, and the lesson will probably come at the hands of several of NPO's current allies. I like MI6 and TPF and yet this decision has made me very happy. Well done Oculus! You're no longer invited to our birthday party :(( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the rebel Posted October 12, 2015 Report Share Posted October 12, 2015 Er, no? Being honest and being obtuse are different. I see you're one of those that doesn't have honest in his known vocabulary, I will lend you a dictionary :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the rebel Posted October 12, 2015 Report Share Posted October 12, 2015 So many Occulus posters just don't get it. Or that they're going to have huge big blue balls in a week or so, from lack of targets and lack of balls at preempting further. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neo Uruk Posted October 12, 2015 Report Share Posted October 12, 2015 So many Occulus posters just don't get it. What's at stake is how much can NPO's allies can trust them.I think you're selling a lot of NPO's allies short in the "critical thinking" department here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brucemania Posted October 12, 2015 Report Share Posted October 12, 2015 must be turkey day..... seems the posting is meant for this day :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boston Posted October 12, 2015 Report Share Posted October 12, 2015 so much butt hurt, keep the tears flowing guys well done. cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magicninja Posted October 12, 2015 Report Share Posted October 12, 2015 I was in TPF during the "good ol' days." I can see why this would sting more than usual. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zero-One Posted October 12, 2015 Report Share Posted October 12, 2015 Apparently it's all good so long as the meat shields do the master's bidding.... For 8 years, we had been allied to NPO. They sign treaties with a bunch of people we don't like. We sign one treaty they don't like then they turn around and roll us a couple months after they cancel on us? Seems like I made a horrible mistake in picking our friends if that's how fair weather they are. That's rich coming from you, preaching about loyalty. Embrace your well-deserved beating like a good little boy you are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vol Navy Posted October 12, 2015 Report Share Posted October 12, 2015 That's rich coming from you, preaching about loyalty. Embrace your well-deserved beating like a good little boy you are. Genmay, butthurt for nearly 10 years.....I wish I had been in TPF at the time, instead of joining right after UJP ended, just to know something I was a part of caused such a long standing butthurt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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