Neo Uruk Posted March 12, 2015 Report Share Posted March 12, 2015 Oh I can think of more than 1. GOONS raids. DBDC hitting Pax. DBDC on FAN. MQ on TDO. That other one on TDO. Woodstock.At the end of the day you're wasting your time Mogar. You believe that alliances shouldn't be attacked without a 'crime' but the majority either disagrees with you or is too apathetic to do anything about it so no matter how hard you blow you'll never get the piggies in the brick house."Yeah, I remember a bunch of raids on neutrals that weren't committed by DBDC or its predecessor AAs!"*lists off a bunch of raids committed by DBDC, a nondescript "GOONS raids", and the one war that was already referenced*Good god, you should really invest in some education. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabcat Posted March 12, 2015 Report Share Posted March 12, 2015 2. The context of the post was clearly a response to the OP and not an attempt to suggest anything about WTF's general position. This was achieved by quoting a section clearly relating to ODN members' ability to interact diplomatically in response to an OP regarding that very issue. I shall in future do my best to remember my crayon. Their flattery, taken in the context of the rest of the post was a rhetorical device - they were damning you with faint praise. If you can manage to get the crayon here without eating it on the way, I'll be impressed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willie the Pimp Posted March 12, 2015 Report Share Posted March 12, 2015 Their flattery, taken in the context of the rest of the post was a rhetorical device - they were damning you with faint praise. If you can manage to get the crayon here without eating it on the way, I'll be impressed. And is your choice to also ignore all other comments a rhetorical device also? I defer to you on all matters henceforth, clearly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WorldConqueror Posted March 12, 2015 Report Share Posted March 12, 2015 ....except for the planning of a massive attack on the NpO (for no reason in particular) which led to things like the formation of Vox, my taking a seat on the Red Senate and, ultimately, the toppling of Pacifica from the acme of power. Other than that, sure. Real long-term thinker there. Can't argue about the effects but for no reason in particular is a bit misleading, Polar were moving against NPO as well, they were just less overt about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mogar Posted March 12, 2015 Report Share Posted March 12, 2015 And is your choice to also ignore all other comments a rhetorical device also? I defer to you on all matters henceforth, clearly. It's almost as if there's several sides involved in this discussion or something, all wishing to paint their own narrative. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gatorback05 Posted March 12, 2015 Report Share Posted March 12, 2015 When will the next pointless thread start? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wes the wise Posted March 12, 2015 Report Share Posted March 12, 2015 When will the next pointless thread start?This one's got a ways to go yet. ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mogar Posted March 12, 2015 Report Share Posted March 12, 2015 When will the next pointless thread start? Send more of your allies to diplomatize WTF, I can throw one up after they start posting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrMn Posted March 12, 2015 Report Share Posted March 12, 2015 masterofwind ... what an appropriate screenname! :popcorn: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeroofTime55 Posted March 12, 2015 Report Share Posted March 12, 2015 The Citrus Circus continues to deliver. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wes the wise Posted March 12, 2015 Report Share Posted March 12, 2015 Personally, I find WTF's suicidal tendency to be refreshing. I also appreciate the difficulty that tendency must present to the Doom Birds. If ODN doesn't sweep in with their 1000 nation army real soon, the Doom Birds had better start selling down to help out their doom finches down below. :popcorn: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mogar Posted March 12, 2015 Report Share Posted March 12, 2015 I don't see WTF as Suicidal, they merely have no intentions of a round 2, DBDC wants a fight and so WTF is giving them one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azaghul Posted March 12, 2015 Report Share Posted March 12, 2015 So, to summarise, you want peace in the DBDC-WTF raid gone wrong not just for the sake of your allies, but because those poor, ignorant neutrals don't know what is good for them and need the experienced politicians and diplomats from ODN to inform them of such? Your post was a good exhibit of the part of his post where he talked about all the people who have difficulty with reading but that's about it. It's ridiculous the lengths people are going to completely spin things out of context with this. I get that people want to see DBDC burn and I can't say I blame them, given the way DBDC has bullied and attacked alliances like RIA, Polar etc. On a personal level I'm to some degree sympathetic, and I can't say that I'm too enthusiastic about being in an alliance with a treaty with them. But I also can't blame our government for trying to find a peaceful end towards this and in spite of the spin schatt and others have tried to put on it, I think Peaches and OS are and have been reasonable, diplomatic, and willing to listen to and respect WTF's side of things. The spin from Schatt and others is a transparent attempt to stir the pot and keep the conflict going. Again, can't say I entirely blame them, and I would probably do the same in their shoes, but I'm just calling a spade a spade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlmightyGrub Posted March 12, 2015 Report Share Posted March 12, 2015 Also personally, I prefer Dilber. Dilber, the gold standard for Pacifican Emperors. Lots of others would do well to try to absorb Dliber's good points. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azaghul Posted March 12, 2015 Report Share Posted March 12, 2015 (edited) Dilber, the gold standard for Pacifican Emperors. Lots of others would do well to try to absorb Dliber's good points. He certainly was (is?) one of CN's best leaders. Edited March 12, 2015 by Azaghul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mogar Posted March 12, 2015 Report Share Posted March 12, 2015 (edited) For the record, the purpose of that question was whether or not he wished to be remembered leaving NPO in a better place(While Moldavi did technically lose GW1, I'm not sure how many of you were around back then to know how much of a cluster$%&@ that war was), or a worse one(I don't think I need to explain Moo.) I think Peaches and OS are and have been reasonable, diplomatic, and willing to listen to and respect WTF's side of things. We have disagreed upon many things Azaghul, this is certainly not one of them. Edited March 12, 2015 by Mogar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caladin Posted March 12, 2015 Report Share Posted March 12, 2015 Your post was a good exhibit of the part of his post where he talked about all the people who have difficulty with reading but that's about it. Perhaps. To me it just appeared that ODN was being very condescending towards WTF and their right to make their own decisions (in that particular post; I don't believe I've noticed such an attitude elsewhere) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingzog Posted March 12, 2015 Report Share Posted March 12, 2015 Wasn't it Moo by the time that Polar got stomped? All the planning was Dilber. He told me personally, weeks before the attacks on the NpO began. Laid out in great detail what was going to happen and when. Then he denied it. Then he admitted it. So really....I don't know what he'd say now. But it was him. All him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mogar Posted March 12, 2015 Report Share Posted March 12, 2015 I'd buy it, Dilber is a man of many talents. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schattenmann Posted March 12, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 12, 2015 Citrus Circus Youre hired; how fast can you reroll? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerdge Posted March 12, 2015 Report Share Posted March 12, 2015 ... responding to innocuous philosophical criticism from members of my alliance by claiming that we will be the "next" to be rolled for the provocation ... I don't have an horse in this race, save maybe philosophical interest, and I can thus fully sympathize with you. I'll go out on a limb to say that I even tried to explain your stance to him - I hadn't conclusive evidence, but your words now confirm that my intuition was essentially correct - but he chose to do otherwise. Which he's entitled to, of course. This means that Branimir was right since his first post on this subject. I tip my hat to him: the long years made him maybe a bit less rough, but certainly no less acute. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayatollah Bromeini Posted March 12, 2015 Report Share Posted March 12, 2015 (edited) Let's be honest, this hype is for nothing. ODN isn't going to do anything, because that would require ODN actually taking initiative on something that requires independent thought and not just carefully tip-toeing in the footsteps of a horrible one-sided dog pile. Edited March 12, 2015 by Ayatollah Bromeini Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schattenmann Posted March 12, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 12, 2015 (edited) Let's be honest, this hype is for nothing. ODN isn't going to do anything, because that would require ODN actually taking initiative on something that requires independent thought and not just carefully tip-toeing in the footsteps of a horrible one-sided dog pile. I think the anti-DBDC sentiment has overwhelmed this nuance. I know you're being funny, but it's true. This is not a thread about DBDC. What makes ODN look so stupid here are a few things: The outright lies about ODN's character. I often wonder if they believe what they're saying, but it is clear that Peaches like his predecessor OsRavan has settled on deliberate doublespeak. Its creepy. DBDC, as far as anyone knows and I don't post anything I don't know because I dislike apologies and retractions (though I'm not infallible), has not asked ODN to do this. I have no evidwnce that DBDC prompted this, I don't say they did. Everyone says DBDC is wrecking WTF, so why has ODN gone out on a limb for noob cake or DBDC? The cavalry is not coming. Garion says nay, STA says fat chance, GATO says hell no. Theres no 1000-nation backup, and ODN itself is too soon out of war to take on even a war-weary WTF. Sure, sure, "bucovina wasn't official and he shot off his mouth," but Shinnra made clear enough threats, too. Why is ODN trying (miserably) to white knight an alliance that says it doesnt need help or want help? Browse the DBDC embassy: DBDC is clear that they expected WTF to fight longterm, and this war has not even been that long. Peaches admonished me to look at the situation, and honestly I admit stats bore and confuse me, so I had no idea WTF has only 4 wars. But what does Peaches think he was proving? It doesn't matter. ODN is eating shit over 4 wars? That makes it that much more hilarious from this side of the desk! I have plenty to day about DBDC, but Caladin and others have aptly cut through the crap: ODN apparently decided to prove what good allies and negotiators they are without consulting with DBDC and now they both look as stupid as ODN is. They are condescending and impotent in this expedition, and they might even start a serious war, and that is the story. This is one treaty that has reached diminishing returns. Edited March 12, 2015 by Schattenmann Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayatollah Bromeini Posted March 12, 2015 Report Share Posted March 12, 2015 (edited) I don't know if it's so much doublespeak as it is a case of Plato's noble lie. I can't speak for this peaches character, but I know that, even in the privacy of CnG high gov channels, Os would always be the voice for "honor" and "the right thing" while very clearly supporting and encouraging moves that were not very honorable or right at all. I mean, I did too, as did all of us running the bloc, but no one else had delusions about what was going on. That very much seems to be the case here, with what is clearly a not-so-subtle threat being earnestly defended as a TRUE ATTEMPT AT DIPLOMACY That's historically, in my somewhat limited experience, always been the problem with ODN: They believe everything they say. Edited March 12, 2015 by Ayatollah Bromeini Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
berbers Posted March 12, 2015 Report Share Posted March 12, 2015 (edited) Let's be honest, this hype is for nothing. ODN isn't going to do anything, because that would require ODN actually taking initiative on something that requires independent thought and not just carefully tip-toeing in the footsteps of a horrible one-sided dog pile. Oh come on, 2 of the last 3 wars ODN came in on the losing side and took a beating. Edit: And Schattenman...Garion doesn't dictate policy for R&R, Magicninja doesn't for GATO. Using two individual comments to suggest ODN's allies will sit back and watch the fireworks is a bit of a stretch. And before you go all crazy on this post, I do not dictate NATO policy :/ Edited March 12, 2015 by berbers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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