Announcement from GRATOsphere

[SoADarthCyfe6]

This is the problem. You present yourselves as a friendly, peaceful, "open to anyone and everyone" alliance while also supporting an alliance like NG. Are you really so myopic that if the individuals in an alliance are nice to you, you give no consideration to how their alliance operates?

Being a Diplomat to NG for roughly two years, and having spoken to a large sum of the (active) alliance, I particularly have a decent insight as to how their alliance functions. But again, you seem to have failed to address first point when I indicated that GATO and NG are friends, and this treaty is a build up of relations since majorly, Eq.
 
As for NG's most known past aggressive behavior, I'm pretty sure most of the administration during the lead up to that war, went around attempting to fix NG's bad track record. I also notice that he's still currently in power leading the alliance. Let alone that NG just got out of it's most devastating war in its existence, getting its assed kicked, for the very reason of being who they were.

Who's gunning for GATO?

We have any takers on this?
 

Besides, there are reasons why I'm back in a small alliance with a principled foreign policy baked right into its charter.

That's fine if you don't agree with it, but your hands were in the dirt when you brought up this discussion. It really isn't the most important part of the rebuttal, but it's a valid point regardless.
 

I will admit that the initial overtures for the TOP-Polar treaty were strategic in nature (Polar was facing an aggressive coalition of alliances bent on destroying them, and we needed to diversify our treaty setup and move out of the FA corner we were in), but it ultimately would not have happened had both sides not discovered that, yes, we do have like-minded characteristics and values. We discovered a lot about one another that just cemented our mutual desire to make things happen.
 
People act like TOP only signs treaties for their outward impact, but if that was the case, we'd have 30 MD-level ties pulling us all over the web. We work to sign treaties with people that have similar ideas and values to our own, and if they don't, then it doesn't work out. The only difference between ourselves and yourselves in this regard is that our ideas and values themselves may be different.

Well, to be perfectly honest, TOP did come to GATO pre-Eq for a treaty and you clearly stated that your foreign affairs policy is realpolitik. No one from your alliance I think will deny this, unless you've made a policy change since then. Regardless, the point was not indicating that your treaty was a realpolitik treaty or not, it was merely used to bring up another controversial situation in where many people had the same mindset as Prodigal Moon does on our treaty, as they did towards yours.
 

There's no implication anywhere within his post that the TOP-Polar treaty is anything other then a realpolitik move, and his use of the treaty as a "no u" provides a vibe of disdain.
 
But no, I'm not trying to counter his point. I understand that alliances with past issues can bury their proverbial hatchet and develop a treaty relationship, and it's good to see GATO and NG doing exactly. We could use fewer older grudges around here.

Nor is there any indication that I imply it is. Again, I only used it as a comparison to the controversial nature of the treaty and because its recent.

[Prodigal Moon]

Being a Diplomat to NG for roughly two years, and having spoken to a large sum of the (active) alliance, I particularly have a decent insight as to how their alliance functions. But again, you seem to have failed to address first point when I indicated that GATO and NG are friends, and this treaty is a build up of relations since majorly, Eq.
 
As for NG's most known past aggressive behavior, I'm pretty sure most of the administration during the lead up to that war, went around attempting to fix NG's bad track record. I also notice that he's still currently in power leading the alliance. Let alone that NG just got out of it's most devastating war in its existence, getting its assed kicked, for the very reason of being who they were.

I'm addressing the point about NG-GATO being friends when I say that friendship itself is a weakminded, childish reason to lend military to support an admittedly aggressive alliance. If your backs were to the wall and you chose to have NG with you rather than against you, it'd be a different story. But if this is how people want to handle FA then you (general "you" in the treaty web) might as well randomly assign teams next war. We've been headed in that direction for quite a while.

 

 

 

That's fine if you don't agree with it, but your hands were in the dirt when you brought up this discussion. It really isn't the most important part of the rebuttal, but it's a valid point regardless.

TOP was a bit of a compromise that was absolutely necessary for survival, and it worked out very well for both parties. I don't have any objection to that. But take the compromises too far and eventually you lose sight of who deserves your support and who deserves a rolling. That's what I'm trying to avoid.

Edited March 19, 2014 by Prodigal Moon

[Omniscient1]

I guess every decent alliance needs a failboat to ride when the waves are too high. Smooth sailing NG!

Edited March 19, 2014 by Omniscient1

[magicninja]

I'm addressing the point about NG-GATO being friends when I say that friendship itself is a weakminded, childish reason to lend military to support an admittedly aggressive alliance. If your backs were to the wall and you chose to have NG with you rather than against you, it'd be a different story. But if this is how people want to handle FA then you (general "you" in the treaty web) might as well randomly assign teams next war. We've been headed in that direction for quite a while.

 

 

 

TOP was a bit of a compromise that was absolutely necessary for survival, and it worked out very well for both parties. I don't have any objection to that. But take the compromises too far and eventually you lose sight of who deserves your support and who deserves a rolling. That's what I'm trying to avoid.

 

C'mon Prodigal Moon not only are we friends with NG but we also have a damn cohesive military mindset. This was easy to figure out the war before this last one. We feel and I'm sure they feel that when, on top of our games, we're a damn deadly combination out on the battlefield. The bottom line is when GATO and NG get together you better tie everything down and hide your women....or at the very least throw 20-25 meatshields at us because somebody is getting fucked up.  

[IYIyTh]

An autocracy and a mass member democracy, those always go well together. ;) But seriously congrats to both alliances.

 

 

Whatcha tryna say

[Steve Buscemi]

Sorry to interrupt these TOP tryhards....but this:

 

 

C'mon Prodigal Moon not only are we friends with NG but we also have a damn cohesive military mindset. This was easy to figure out the war before this last one. We feel and I'm sure they feel that when, on top of our games, we're a damn deadly combination out on the battlefield. The bottom line is when GATO and NG get together you better tie everything down and hide your women....or at the very least throw 20-25 meatshields at us because somebody is getting $%&@ed up.  

Not only do we share common allies, we've fought together the last two wars...and I've enjoyed it immensely.  We've wanted to ink some paper for quite some time.  Most alliances that are all realpolitk "we only do MDoAPs" won't understand these things.  Generally those that sign optional treaties first do so out friendship and a desire to continue to work on that relationship. 

 

Not everyone signs as many MDoAPs as they can so they can have meatshields for the next war.
 

Edited March 21, 2014 by Steve Buscemi

[Stewie]

 The bottom line is when GATO and NG get together you better tie everything down and hide your women....or at the very least throw 20-25 meatshields at us because somebody is getting $%&@ed up.  

 

:wub:

 

And completely agree what Steve says above :)

Edited March 21, 2014 by Stewie

[andyt2k]

You can all have Finnish Commie for free!

 

Wait, can we have FC and you can have Baggy

[Cynic]

Lookin good.

o/ letub

[WarriorSoul]

 
Wait, can we have FC and you can have Baggy

Rejected on principle. Sorry. :P

[The Zigur]

I wonder how many people now agree with me that the war was ended too soon.

[Commander shepard]

I wonder how many people now agree with me that the war was ended too soon.

 

I'm sure more people are wondering why you're still here posting and being annoying to everyone on Bob. 

You present yourself as an expert analyst.

Analysis yourself.

Edited March 21, 2014 by Commander shepard

[SoADarthCyfe6]

I wonder how many people now agree with me that the war was ended too soon.

You clearly have zero concept at to how CN politics functions. If you kept attacking us, all you would have done is solidify our coalition more, and broke your precious "Polardoxia" supersphere, which btw, no one claims that name to exist except you (and no, just because I put it in my post does not mean I claim it's existence either). You would have created a CnG/US/NPO/NG powersphere, born out of common hatred to see our enemies fall (whether it be the XX/AFM, TOP powerspheres or both). Before this war, the only really unification was between NPO and CnG, which also had some strains on the relationship as well due to various factors I will not mention.

Do you even have any idea how the XX/AFM powersphere came into being? It is merely the old SF/XX powersphere, rebranded (with a few minor changes in AA's) from the Grudge and Dave Wars. The very same wars that sought to crush their powersphere and make it disappear. It failed miserably and it only made that group of alliances come closer, and gave birth to the one you see today.


Oh and yes, I use 'powersphere' as a loose term aimed at identifying a large group of alliances who are closely knitted together via the treaty web. It's not really an indication of how things really function, but a term used to make other concepts easier to understand. Agree or disagree, this is how AA's generally view groups of alliances behind the scenes. Edited March 21, 2014 by SoADarthCyfe6

[The Zigur]

Obviously NPOsphere is already filled with hatred and thoughts of revenge, a few more months of war would not have changed that. A change of leadership would have been good for several alliances on the losing side. Polardoxia is very real and unless some major treachery takes place, it will continue to be very real.

[Rayvon]

Obviously NPOsphere is already filled with hatred and thoughts of revenge, a few more months of war would not have changed that. A change of leadership would have been good for several alliances on the losing side. Polardoxia is very real and unless some major treachery takes place, it will continue to be very real.

Obviously you're smelling your upper lip and confusing it with your ass. Pull your head out a little more and you'll find your asshole again.

[TurnipCruncher]

I wonder how many people now agree with me that the war was ended too soon.

Must be why everybody was ragging on me for prolonging the war, you included. You had the opportunity if you wanted it so bad.

[berbers]

Obviously NPOsphere is already filled with hatred and thoughts of revenge

 

Nope, as someone who is full of grudges, the lack of grudge in the "NPOsphere" is disturbing :(

[SoADarthCyfe6]

Obviously NPOsphere is already filled with hatred and thoughts of revenge, a few more months of war would not have changed that. A change of leadership would have been good for several alliances on the losing side. Polardoxia is very real and unless some major treachery takes place, it will continue to be very real.

No, if anything the ten alliances GATO fought this war, we managed to gain a lot of respect and liking themost of them. You have no idea what you are talking about, and continue doing so.

And your reference to calling it the "NPOsphere" is pretty hilarious in and of itself because you don't know how things work behind the scenes of our relationship with NPO, nor what goes on right in front of your face. Edited March 21, 2014 by SoADarthCyfe6

[The Zigur]

Well, I am more or less semi-retired and just provide observations. I am surprised at the reaction they inspire! But anyone who thinks NPOsphere is without resentment and hostility should go back and look at the posts right around the time of the surrender.

I may not write as many essays on neo-imperialism anymore, but that doesnt mean it has gone away.

[603Redneck]

I wonder how many people now agree with me that the war was ended too soon.

do you actually believe the nonsense that comes out of your mouth, or is it all for show??? Because I remember you crying and bitching that NoR was dragging the war out too long....... Do us all a favor and quit posting

[The Zigur]

Well, I was calling out NoR's disservice to its allies at one point, but that is irrelevant to the strategic reasoning behind the war. Disorder War was to disable a neo-imperialist threat. I think we succeeded on the battlefield, but many ideological challenges remain. I think the threat was forestalled, but a shadow that was pushed back always returns when the watch relents.

Edited March 21, 2014 by Tywin Lannister

[IYIyTh]

Reminder, you're all shadowboxing with Tywin Lannister -- who currently resides in LoSS

[SoADarthCyfe6]

Reminder, you're all shadowboxing with Tywin Lannister -- who currently resides in LoSS

Stop making me agree with you, Myth, you evil drone, you!

[Starfox101]

Well, I was calling out NoR's disservice to its allies at one point, but that is irrelevant to the strategic reasoning behind the war. Disorder War was to disable a neo-imperialist threat. I think we succeeded on the battlefield, but many ideological challenges remain. I think the threat was forestalled, but a shadow that was pushed back always returns when the watch relents.

Sounds like every war in the history of CN

 

Great analysis 

[IYIyTh]

Stop making me agree with you, Myth, you evil drone, you!

 

;)

 

am i a nice drone :?