New Polar Order Declaration of War

[Yggdrazil]

"Peace mode" arguments again. If you take tactical advice from an opponent, you have a problem that can't be fixed.

 
The strong have always lamented about the tactics of the weaker because the weaker will not face them "toe to toe".

[Rayvon]

I just take an issue with leadership that drags members into war and runs and hides. Can you imagine some of the legendary leaders of CN doing that? No, and that is why they are remembered fondly.

Again, "runs and hides" like the first 12 hours of war is the entire war.

Would you have us lead through stupidity and hypocrisy? "Yeah, you members - you don't do stupid things like ignoring orders while we your leaders ignore the very orders we expect you to follow because we're above those orders" ... No - our nations are nations. I, the person, am the leader, not my nation. My nation does zero service as me. My nation is just another nation in the Dark Army - subject to every rule and penalty as even our newest members. 

 

You can see clearly my memberships feelings on the subject, feel free to speak to any of them of the matter.

 

When you're ready to stop bawling about peace mode, let's have this war. You've got TOP and Fark to lift for you against us little ol' dastardly Sith.

[Starfox101]

The order isn't above apologizing to its allies, current or former for its wrongdoings. Polar is, and here's what it's brought. They wanted to bury the hatchet, but they never took any real steps. There's not point pretending your alliance has character if you just move on from it without any resolution. This'll be nice.

Given that I've seen Polar make steps towards making amends while I was on the outside, while NSO griped, complained and refused it, I don't think you have any idea what you are talking about. Regardless, it still happened years ago and has no merit today. I was on PZI for 3 years (Which is a better reason to stay mad) and I don't care about the NPO. Obsessive hatred gets you nowhere, especially considering how much things have changed since then.

[Rebel Virginia]

Speaking of that, you've let your nation get to big. You've abandoned me in perpetual nation suckage, and that disappoints me. We must fix this. It would only be right to have what, a 3rd, or 4th go around? Should be fun.

Well, I had to. The appeal of the WRC was too great for me to resist. It was always my goal to return to a sub-par nation, as having a full set of wonders in the lower tier can be quite amusing. Maybe this war will help me in that regard.

Edited November 1, 2013 by Rebel Virginia

[Starfox101]

Again, "runs and hides" like the first 12 hours of war is the entire war.

Would you have us lead through stupidity and hypocrisy? "Yeah, you members - you don't do stupid things like ignoring orders while we your leaders ignore the very orders we expect you to follow because we're above those orders" ... No - our nations are nations. I, the person, am the leader, not my nation. My nation does zero service as me. My nation is just another nation in the Dark Army - subject to every rule and penalty as even our newest members. 

 

You can see clearly my memberships feelings on the subject, feel free to speak to any of them of the matter.

 

When you're ready to stop bawling about peace mode, let's have this war. You've got TOP and Fark to lift for you against us little ol' dastardly Sith.

Maybe so, but I imagine you will have some friends coming in as well. It just wouldn't be a show without that happening. 

 

Generally, a leader gives orders. He does not follow orders from lower ranking personnel. But hey, not everybody is the same, and I wasn't aware that the Sith's MoD overruled the Emperor in a time of war. I apologize for the assumption that an Emperor was the leader always. I also wasn't aware there was a penalty for an Emperor not going to peace mode. I again apologize. This penalty must be quite severe, given that the Emperor was so deathly afraid of it he didn't want to do battle with his sworn enemy along with his members hit in the first strike.

 

I don't know of anyone who would think it was hypocrisy to tell his members to go to peace mode while he fights in a war he caused. I would call that personal accountability and once again, leading from the front. Must be different viewpoints once you turn to the dark side of the force. 

 

Also, quit pretending this is a universal condemnation of using peace mode as a war tactic. It has nothing to do about that and everything to do with letting general membership take the fall for your actions.

 

 

Well, I had to. The appeal of the WRC was too great for me to resist. It was always my goal to return to a sub-par nation, as having a full set of wonders in the lower tier can be quite amusing. Maybe this war will help me in that regard.

I am sure it is amusing. I've been stuck down here due to fighting massed wonder nations at every turn. Sometimes I wish the original Burbank wasn't destroyed, just to see my casualty count. 

Edited November 1, 2013 by Starfox101

[Centurius]

Great arguments about peace mode. I've seen the light and I think I'll just go and surrender now. Or maybe not. I'm sure our leaders are just as eager to get their hands dirty at a better moment. The only thing I'm pissed off about is that it's still 2 weeks until I can buy a wonder again. If I could get my hands on an SDI right now, Rayvon could stay in peace mode for the rest of his life as far as I'm concerned.

 

He sure was planning to!

[MagicalTrevor]

To be fair that happened years ago, and leadership has changed, and attempted to make amends since then. When I was allied to both NSO and NpO, and attempting to facilitate an end to this conflict, NpO were far more interested in burying the hatchet than NSO was. Staying mad for that many years without acting on it isn't healthy, and I have been calling for a war between these two sides for a while now because of that. Hopefully, after this, we can move on and maybe just ignore one another, if anything. We can never move forward if we stay stuck in the past.

 
RV, I understand your point completely. It is a known fact at this point the benefit of using peace mode to rebuild and launch counters. I am not arguing that. I have no problem with regular members using it, as much as I dislike the fact that it exists in the first place. I just take an issue with leadership that drags members into war and runs and hides. Can you imagine some of the legendary leaders of CN doing that? No, and that is why they are remembered fondly.

This is just a terrible argument. Archon was always in peace mode at the start of wars (when he had a nation) and if tactically astute so was every other "legendary leader". PM was established as a viable tactic years ago. I really was hoping we'd be past people mocking others sitting in PM on the first day of a war.

[Rayvon]

This is just a terrible argument. Archon was always in peace mode at the start of wars (when he had a nation) and if tactically astute so was every other "legendary leader". PM was established as a viable tactic years ago. I really was hoping we'd be past people mocking others sitting in PM on the first day of a war.

 

It's the only thing he has to grasp for.

 

Without that, it'd just be the fight we've been waiting to have with no verbal disputes.

[Starfox101]

This is just a terrible argument. Archon was always in peace mode at the start of wars (when he had a nation) and if tactically astute so was every other "legendary leader". PM was established as a viable tactic years ago. I really was hoping we'd be past people mocking others sitting in PM on the first day of a war.

I don't recall Archon sitting in peace through Karma. Additionally, he may be one of the least active leaders of all-time, I don't see any correlation here. Further touching on that, I have no idea how you guys left him in power for so long, even if he was just a figurehead at that point.

 

Also, welcome to TOP. I'm glad you didn't throw in the towel.

[Cairna]

Given that I've seen Polar make steps towards making amends while I was on the outside, while NSO griped, complained and refused it, I don't think you have any idea what you are talking about. Regardless, it still happened years ago and has no merit today. I was on PZI for 3 years (Which is a better reason to stay mad) and I don't care about the NPO. Obsessive hatred gets you nowhere, especially considering how much things have changed since then.

 

Like you said, you were on the outside. Every member was able to see half-hearted attempt at making amends, and I think they'd be disappointed if we accepted that.

[Ardus]

Peace mode is a glorious thing and having experienced a war in its comfy confines I encourage everybody to try it just once.

 

Come on, just a little.

 

Just a little peace-curious

[Starfox101]

Like you said, you were on the outside. Every member was able to see half-hearted attempt at making amends, and I think they'd be disappointed if we accepted that.

Fair enough. Given that I wasn't personally present, I can't vouch for just how authentic it was. Perhaps some NpOers can be abrasive, but I do believe they do regret it. Maybe not Grub, though. :p

 

Either way, I hope this grudge is resolved after this war. 

[Malik Shabazz]

So it begins...

[Rayvon]

Maybe so, but I imagine you will have some friends coming in as well. It just wouldn't be a show without that happening. 

 

Generally, a leader gives orders. He does not follow orders from lower ranking personnel. But hey, not everybody is the same, and I wasn't aware that the Sith's MoD overruled the Emperor in a time of war. I apologize for the assumption that an Emperor was the leader always. I also wasn't aware there was a penalty for an Emperor not going to peace mode. I again apologize. This penalty must be quite severe, given that the Emperor was so deathly afraid of it he didn't want to do battle with his sworn enemy along with his members hit in the first strike.

 

I don't know of anyone who would think it was hypocrisy to tell his members to go to peace mode while he fights in a war he caused. I would call that personal accountability and once again, leading from the front. Must be different viewpoints once you turn to the dark side of the force. 

 

Also, quit pretending this is a universal condemnation of using peace mode as a war tactic. It has nothing to do about that and everything to do with letting general membership take the fall for your actions.

 

 

 

I am sure it is amusing. I've been stuck down here due to fighting massed wonder nations at every turn. Sometimes I wish the original Burbank wasn't destroyed, just to see my casualty count. 

 

You're getting bad at this. I'm wondering what happened to the SF that had a brain that I liked and respected.

 

Is your name Armstrong? How far do you need to stretch? "Every order" means [i]every[/i] order. Peace time and war time. You know exactly what I was saying, you're feign little effort to twist it is far too transparent.

[MagicalTrevor]

I don't recall Archon sitting in peace through Karma. Additionally, he may be one of the least active leaders of all-time, I don't see any correlation here. Further touching on that, I have no idea how you guys left him in power for so long, even if he was just a figurehead at that point.
 
Also, welcome to TOP. I'm glad you didn't throw in the towel.

He tried to quit several times but we didn't let him. He hasn't done anything at all for a long long time and as you said, was a figurehead not a leader. I'm also pretty sure he was in the 2nd wave in karma (so was PM for first) The point is, if NSO were expecting a beating for x time with no assistance then letting the opponents choose their targets is about the dumbest thing you can do. Your argument is based in a rhetoric given up in 2010 and makes it look like you look desperate and ill-informed.

[Starfox101]

Quote
You're getting bad at this. I'm wondering what happened to the SF that had a brain that I liked and respected.

Is your name Armstrong? How far do you need to stretch? "Every order" means every order. Peace time and war time. You know exactly what I was saying, you're feign little effort to twist it is far too transparent.

Well, given that I am on the opposite side of the fence I would assume that has quite a bit to do with it. You know full well that what I am telling you makes sense.

To each his own. I would rather lead my troops into battle with a sworn enemy instead of following a lower government order, regardless of war or peace, or any other politics involved. Peace mode is a legit tactic, and I understand it makes more sense from a war standpoint. There is no debate there. As I've stated previously, when you goad a larger enemy into a war, you should bear the brunt of that action, not the unfortunate members who now have to endure a very tough round of war. I just expected better out of a few old school leaders like Dilber, and Corinan.

I guess I just miss the old days, which shouldn't surprise anyone.

MagicalTrevor, on 01 Nov 2013 - 21:38, said:
He tried to quit several times but we didn't let him. He hasn't done anything at all for a long long time and as you said, was a figurehead not a leader. I'm also pretty sure he was in the 2nd wave in karma (so was PM for first) The point is, if NSO were expecting a beating for x time with no assistance then letting the opponents choose their targets is about the dumbest thing you can do. Your argument is based in a rhetoric given up in 2010 and makes it look like you look desperate and ill-informed.

Once again, this is an argument based entirely on stats. Do you really think two nations is going to make a difference in the long run? I would argue that having your leaders who got you into this fighting alongside you is a better gain than two fresh nations who will hit other fresh nations and be countered by three more fresh nations. You're also assuming I am talking about the entire alliance, which as I've pointed out multiple times, is not the case. You're arguing against a point I've already agreed with and never debated. Congratulations.

Also, how exactly does saying a leader should lead from the front make me look ill-informed? Ill-informed on what, exactly? New age leadership ideals? Not sure if ill-informed and desperate are the correct terms for this argument. Desperate for? Edited November 1, 2013 by Starfox101

[Rayvon]

I would rather lead my troops into battle with a sworn enemy instead of following a lower government order, regardless of war or peace, or any other politics involved.

Except that it isn't a lower government order, dude. It's my orders that all nations (Dilber and myself) are subject to all rules, no nation is "special" or exempt. Nations are nations.

Christ almighty, just stop the stupid line. Pick yourself up out of the dirt.

[Starfox101]

Except that it isn't a lower government order, dude. It's my orders that all nations (Dilber and myself) are subject to all rules, no nation is "special" or exempt. Nations are nations.

Christ almighty, just stop the stupid line. Pick yourself up out of the dirt.

That's awfully convenient.

 

Is it possible for you to make a post without a sentence at the end complaining about someone posting, or insulting said person you are responding to? I guess this is why three year old grudges don't end. Get it together.

[KenMorningstar]

"TOP led" heh heh.  This war was conceived in EQ, only the details needed gestation.  TOP's interests aligned, nothing more.

 

You all hatched your devilish little plan, that it went to the backburner isn't anyone's problem except your own.  I expected GOONS to attack CoJ any minute until our disbandment for attempting to bring a coalition against them in 2010.  You don't get to escape your intent simply because your ends didn't meet your needs.

 

Oh man Schatt you had no idea how badly I wanted to  :gun:

[Letum]

"TOP led" heh heh.  This war was conceived in EQ, only the details needed gestation.  TOP's interests aligned, nothing more.

How was this war conceived in EQ if its CB was after EQ?

[Rayvon]

How was this war conceived in EQ if its CB was after EQ?

Gestation period.

[Hereno]

As an ally to MI6, I feel justified in hoping and praying you declare on them.

 

Give them hell, Polar.

 

o/Polar

 

I always get excited when I see reply notifications, but then sometimes the replies are as poorly thought out as this and it just ruins all of my fun.

[halfcha0s]

I always get excited when I see reply notifications, but then sometimes the replies are as poorly thought out as this and it just ruins all of my fun.

Your fun was ruined?

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!

What for shalt I live thus without thou to do stuff and uhhh lul?

 

 

... wtf are we talking about?

Edited November 1, 2013 by halfcha0s

[iamthey]

I guess I'll see you in a week upper tier NSO (maybe?)...

[Fox Fire]

And so it begins.

 

Have fun everyone. o/