Quick Note from MK

[Rush Sykes]

So it was ok to sanction HoT under the policy of, "win by any means" but MK nations get sanctioned and now everyone has to play nice.

Well, you reap what you sow. Try not to hurt yourselves back-peddling.

 

It is utterly hilarious, and shows your complete lack of knowledge on the way things work on Planet Bob, if you think our side would engage a "win by any means" strategy that involves sanctioning .... and then turn around and roll it out on a 3K NS nation. Are you really kidding yourself into believing that?

[Saniiro Matsudaira]

Because as we know if a GATO member had been sanctioned in a similar fashion by a member of another alliance, particularly if you were at war with that alliance and/or its allies, you'd be totally cool and understanding about it.   <_<

 

No, the outrage is well earned and is a reaction to years of arrogance and general asshattery.

This, my friends, is the textbook example of what I have stated.

 

Although the facts, including the basis of why the sanction was put in place in the fact place, was presented in a clear light, people would rather avoid sense of logic and go for an attack on the basis of association, which will really get this nowhere in the long run.

 

However, this matter would be better left to those who actually have the clearest picture, unlike you and myself.

[HeroofTime55]

Everyhing said by anyone above who is on my side in this war I agree with.  And they are paragons of virtue.  Everyone above who is not on my side I disagree with and they should be ashamed of themselves.  Or in summary.  Us good.  Them bad.

Now that I've gotten the obligatories out of the way (or as most of you would call it.. just about the entire thread) I'll start.

Could be a mistake was made and a few errant sanctions were placed.  But given who they were placed on I'd be willing to concede a more likely scenario is a few folks who are rather loud but also rather small were given an at best half-serious sanctions.  A little squirming but nothing really much since those nations are not key to the war effort and don't have very much to lose.  And those nations are not all that concerned with nation building since other aspects of our world concern them far more.  But then a very unwise escalation was done in response where nations that do matter and are intimately involved in the war are targeted.

Now you can ask the question.  Aren't all nations just as important?  Aren't we all equal?  Ponder them all you want.  But in the real world of Digiteria the second action was one that had actual consequences.  And which puts us at this crossroads.  The question is can a little maturity be found to resolve it?  The lords up above gave us a powerful tool for us to police ourselves.  And on the whole we have used it wisely.  I'd hate to see at some point changes made because we were too immature to use it wisely.  May admin always guide our actions with wisdom.  Amen.

 

This is where both sides should back down and drop their sanctions.

 

I am relieved to hear that the sanctions upon my nation are only "half serious" and therefore don't count as sanctions.

[Schattenmann]

AirMe, it is clear that you are oblivious as to anything that has transpired surrounding these events; I take no pleasure in responding to you..

 

 

EQ had no idea what was going on.

EQ has a weekly Skype conference call every Sunday; during this weekend's call we discussed my sanction request, and Brehon said "I can't wait to see this thread."  This call included top leadership from NPO, GLoF, Ai, MCXA, RoK, Legion, etc etc. 

In addition, the sanction request was CCed to Auctor, Dajobo, and Xiphosis (Xiph has not yet read it).

I don't know who you spoke to in EQ, but if they're out of the loop, it's not my fault.

 

 

I talked to NPO leadership about 8 hours after the action and no one had any idea why GOD had sanctioned MK members.

See above.  Brehon was amused at the idea, and Mary the Fantabulous and I discussed it on IRC (we're besties).  Farrin, who I'm guessing you spoke to, was not aware of the request; he is not "NPO" or "Equilibrium" both of which, as I've demonstrated were not ignorant of events.

You are clueless.

 

 

But hey, you guys have ignored their wishes and orders before so this is nothing new that you would go behind there back.

NPO doesn't issue us orders. :3

How can I go behind NPO's back if I tell Brehon and Mary what I'm doing?

You are clueless.

 

 

It doesn't matter WHO you went to talk to. The issue you had WAS with MK. If I have an issue with AI and then go talk to GLOF to resolve a situation, who's fault is it that it doesn't get resolved?

This issue has been resolved, and quite to my liking.

 

 

The fact that you went to talk to, apparently, everyone except the people involved shows your incompetence.

I did not go to MK because I had nothing to discuss with MK. 

If I am so incompetent, why have I got my way?  Again: Do you think this was about opening the Senate to war?  You are blind.  We have closed that door for this war (unless you all want to test our mettle again).

 

 

The original sanction was placed on
what...the 25th and then was lifted on the 28th. We are 10 days later.  If this were a continuation of the sanction war, the sanctions would have been levied on the 25th. You are connecting two events that are not connected.  Are you allied to HoT? No. You are being an opportunist. A crime that apparently MK is guilty of but you have no problem committing yourself.

 

If MK really had wanted to start a sanction war...don't you think they would go after someone other than HoT? OR don't you think they would implement the sanction again after it was lifted? I mean seriously. Use your damn head.  One thing /b/ had right when they did it was that they went after nations who had a lot to lose not a piddly loud mouth from the forums.

How clueless are you?  HoT55's sanction was not lifted until yesterday, and it was not lifted by MK.  You honest-to-God are completely clueless, you actually think that the sanction was lifted a week ago and then MK magnanimously never re-instated it, and you're arguing from this false premise based on ignorance.  This is just embarrassing.

You are clueless.

 

 

MK wasn't right in levying the original sanction either and they issued a late apology.  And they are idiots for two things: 1) issuing the sanction in the first place and 2) not issuing the apology sooner so I wouldn't have to comment in a thread like this.

 MK did not issue the apology because they realized they were wrong.  They issued the apology because CoJ made them.  It isn't "late" because they never acknowledged that they did anything wrong until CoJ brought it home to roost. 

 

If you knew one damned thing about any of this, THEN you wouldn't comment in a thread like this.  But you are clueless.

 

 

And you are one to talk about redefining terms in this war. Your side redefined war declarations and also made it so editing war declarations to cover up MAJOR screw ups is an acceptable practice. 

We covered this, buddy, your MK darlings have been attacking alliances without declarations of war since at least the DH-NPO War.  But AirMe wouldn't have anything to say about that until we did it.  We get it, MK has carte blanche from AirMe.

 

 

Blind loyalty is not something I subscribe to nor will I ever. So again, thank you for the baseless accusation. At least I have always been able to prevent myself from being blinded by hatred which is what you are.

You have gone on a crusade today to white knight MK out of nothing but blindness.  Complete, utter, total ignorance underpins everything you have said today.  I am not blinded by hatred at all, I have made a calculate move, and I have achieved my aims.  You can't see that because you can't see past your treaty list.

 

You're a friend, AirMe, now stop this.

Edited March 7, 2013 by Schattenmann

[Rush Sykes]

The last official contact RIA had with MK, MK said we should all die IRL

 

To be honest I just figured oyababy was a rogue senator, nice to see that confirmed

 

That was several years ago

 

I get told to die IRL at least once a day by someone in MK (usually MagicalTrevor, but occasionally someone else. They are truly monsters.

[HeroofTime55]

This, my friends, is the textbook example of what I have stated.

 

Although the facts, including the basis of why the sanction was put in place in the fact place, was presented in a clear light, people would rather avoid sense of logic and go for an attack on the basis of association, which will really get this nowhere in the long run.

 

However, this matter would be better left to those who actually have the clearest picture, unlike you and myself.

 

The basis of why the sanction was put in place is as follows:

 

1) EvU attacks our MADP partner RnR

2) I, a member of RIA in good and full standing, came to the defense of our allies in RnR

3) Legatus and his entourage came to RIA to demand reps or my explusion or something of that matter

4) RIA laughed at their demands, and sent them on their way, because RIA was at war with EvU the second they hit our SF partners

5) Legatus then went to the claimed member of MK oyababy (who was wearing a rogue AA at the time) to request sanctions despite the fact that I remained a member of RIA

6) oyababy decided to take the word of a leader of a 300k NS micro over any consideration of, you know, asking RIA if there was any merit to the claims of this angry little man, and sanctioned a member of RIA with no warning or diplomatic outreach whatsoever

 

At least, that is my understanding.  oyababy basically jumped on the opportunity to sanction me because he felt he could get away with it.  Then when people on our side responded in kind, MK went "oh shit" and turned the spin machine up to eleven.

 

Which is the point, Rush Sykes, your coalition does what it thinks it can get away with.  oyababy and MK thought they could get away with this one.  When it turns out they couldn't, cue the denials, the spin, and the backpedaling.  And a hilarious personal "apology" addressed to yours truly.  

And now we hear that "MK would never be so stupid to start a sanction war by hitting a useless 3k NS nation" despite the fact that, well, they were precisely that stupid.

[LexLuthor18]

Just dropping my two cents on this issue:

 

Why would anyone on the Umbrella side be sanctioning people roguing on other alliances, when they're doing practically the same thing with the whole Doombird AA?

[AndrewHG]

Its the typical MK way, to do things to others that they would not accept against them selves. They're going to post tons of meaningless drivel in this thread to distract CN from this truth.

 

Nail on the head scy. Same old car crash thread.

[AirMe]

1) The sanction on my nation was lifted yesterday, and not by the MK guy.  It was lifted by Big Z.

 

 

2) The argument that "MK would never be so stupid to start a sanction war by sanctioning someone as 'irrelevant' as HoT" is absolutely moot, because MK did just that.  If MK "would never sanction me," then why the flying fuck did they sanction me?  No amount of spinning can possibly make you stupid enough to believe this is in any way a valid argument, right?  ...Right?

 

3) Their "apology" is not borne out of any legitimate sense of regret for their actions.  What they are sorry for is for the consequences.  As such, I do not accept their so-called "apology" as valid.

 

1) I am sorry, I legit thought it was lifted after 3 days. So add that to the list of idiotic moves.

 

2) If I were to start a sanction war, no offense, I wouldn't start with you because you would be the first one to go to the forums and complain about it, which you did. And it was the right move. I also would start with nations that were actually damaging my alliance.  I have no idea why they sanctioned you.

 

3) I have pretty much openly said that. But they did issue an apology which is better than no apology.  We have all issued apologies we did not mean just to get out of something or to snag some PR points. So the faux outrage over that is meh.

[ChairmanHal]

This, my friends, is the textbook example of what I have stated.

 

Although the facts, including the basis of why the sanction was put in place in the fact place, was presented in a clear light, people would rather avoid sense of logic and go for an attack on the basis of association, which will really get this nowhere in the long run.

 

However, this matter would be better left to those who actually have the clearest picture, unlike you and myself.

 

So you are actually buying the story that the sanction against HoT was what amounted to a clerical error and it wasn't corrected right away because of a misunderstanding?

 

Hey man, they are your allies, I guess that involves a certain amount of suspension of disbelief these days.  :lol1:

 

You misunderstand.  I don't buy that the sanction of HoT was a mistake for a minute and it's clear that people want to roast MK publicly for it based upon OP among other things, both past and present.

[Starfox101]

GOD are scum? In other news, water is wet.

MK does it first, no problem.

 

GOD retaliates, what scum.

 

Nobody ever said you judged fairly or had a working moral compass, but this is just ridiculous.

[AirMe]

AirMe, it is clear that you are oblivious as to anything that has transpired surrounding these events; I take no pleasure in responding to you..

 

 

EQ has a weekly Skype conference call every Sunday; during this weekend's call we discussed my sanction request, and Brehon said "I can't wait to see this thread."  This call included top leadership from NPO, GLoF, Ai, MCXA, RoK, Legion, etc etc. 

In addition, the sanction request was CCed to Auctor, Dajobo, and Xiphosis (Xiph has not yet read it).

I don't know who you spoke to in EQ, but if they're out of the loop, it's not my fault.

 

 

See above.  Brehon was amused at the idea, and Mary the Fantabulous and I discussed it on IRC (we're besties).  Farrin, who I'm guessing you spoke to, was not aware of the request; he is not "NPO" or "Equilibrium" both of which, as I've demonstrated were not ignorant of events.

You are clueless.

 

 

NPO doesn't issue us orders. :3

How can I go behind NPO's back if I tell Brehon and Mary what I'm doing?

You are clueless.

 

 

This issue has been resolved, and quite to my liking.

 

 

I did not go to MK because I had nothing to discuss with MK. 

If I am so incompetent, why have I got my way?  Again: Do you think this was about opening the Senate to war?  You are blind.  We have closed that door for this war (unless you all want to test our mettle again).

 

 

How clueless are you?  HoT55's sanction was not lifted until yesterday, and it was not lifted by MK.  You honest-to-God are completely clueless, you actually think that the sanction was lifted a week ago and then MK magnanimously never re-instated it, and you're arguing from this false premise based on ignorance.  This is just embarrassing.

You are clueless.

 

 

 MK did not issue the apology because they realized they were wrong.  They issued the apology because CoJ made them.  It isn't "late" because they never acknowledged that they did anything wrong until CoJ brought it home to roost. 

 

If you knew one damned thing about any of this, THEN you wouldn't comment in a thread like this.  But you are clueless.

 

 

We covered this, buddy, your MK darlings have been attacking alliances without declarations of war since at least the DH-NPO War.  But AirMe wouldn't have anything to say about that until we did it.  We get it, MK has carte blanche from AirMe.

 

 

You have gone on a crusade today to white knight MK out of nothing but blindness.  Complete, utter, total ignorance underpins everything you have said today.  I am not blinded by hatred at all, I have made a calculate move, and I have achieved my aims.  You can't see that because you can't see past your treaty list.

 

You're a friend, AirMe, now stop this.

 

I'm not white knighting anything and I believe I have referred to at least 3 moves they made during this incident as idiotic, which is the same designation I have given to about 2 of your moves.  So if you are keeping score MK leads by 3 idiots to 2.

 

I guess what my point should have been was the fact that you condemn and speak loudly against MK for things like this in the past but you have no qualms using, and championing these tactics against them.

 

I can also say that I spoke directly to Brehon and he was not amused at your response. I envisioned him making the grumpy cat face.

 

Also:

 

 

[20:49] <@AirMe> why was HoT sanctioned in the first place.

[20:50] <@potato> because EvU came to oyababy saying HoT was a rogue

[20:50] <@King_Brandon> Everfree Union, thought they were a rogue, since they weren't at war with RIA, only RnR.

[20:50] <@potato> and, afaik, oyababy just assumed EvU had done its homework

[20:52] <&AirMe> mind if I share these logs cause I currently look like a !@#$% on the OWF

[20:53] <@Teh1337Guy> sure

[20:53] <@potato> wow no

[20:53] <@potato> (yeah, go on)

[20:53] <&AirMe> why did I return to a PC again

[20:54] <@potato> because your wife isn't preggers

[20:54] <&AirMe> I hate mirc

[20:54] <&AirMe> why the hell won't it let me copy and paste

Edited March 7, 2013 by AirMe

[o ya baby]

Time to start going around and sanctioning other heavy hitters on the other side.  Look out 1k ns nations, I'm coming to start a ~~*sanction war~*~

[Mogar]

I'd like to remind you that Mogar joined AI specifically for the purpose of engaging Mushroom Kingdom. It's not something that Equilibrium does not engage in, and it's relatively normative; in NoCB, which you call the War of the Coalition, quite a few nations joined Mushroom Kingdom in order to be curbstomped by NPO. Quite a few nations also joined Poison Clan during the early 2011 war in order to provide aid to a dog-piled alliance, and I believe Coursca joined NPO during the course of Karma to fight alongside his NPO friends.

so why was I sanctioned unless AI specifically requested it?(which they didnt.)

[Azaghul]

6) oyababy decided to take the word of a leader of a 300k NS micro over any consideration of, you know, asking RIA if there was any merit to the claims of this angry little man, and sanctioned a member of RIA with no warning or diplomatic outreach whatsoever

And now we hear that "MK would never be so stupid to start a sanction war by hitting a useless 3k NS nation" despite the fact that, well, they were precisely that stupid.

Deliberately attempting to start a sanction war would require a lot more than just oyababy taking EU's word for it that the sanction is legit.

 

Pick one storyline or the other, they don't work together.

[HeroofTime55]

1) I am sorry, I legit thought it was lifted after 3 days. So add that to the list of idiotic moves.

 

2) If I were to start a sanction war, no offense, I wouldn't start with you because you would be the first one to go to the forums and complain about it, which you did. And it was the right move. I also would start with nations that were actually damaging my alliance.  I have no idea why they sanctioned you.

 

3) I have pretty much openly said that. But they did issue an apology which is better than no apology.  We have all issued apologies we did not mean just to get out of something or to snag some PR points. So the faux outrage over that is meh.

 

To the second, perhaps you should offer your mental abilities to MK.  I don't know why they thought it was a good idea either.  What anyone of any mental capacity would do in this situation is irrelevant, because mouth-breathers with poo for brains didn't make the smart call.  That's why we're here.  Saying that they shouldn't have done it is stating the obvious.

 

To the third, doesn't that pretty much prove why we shouldn't give them PR points?  Because they're only doing it to try to look good?  Because they are dishonest in their words?  It seems nothing short of insane to claim that, because they don't mean it and are only doing it for PR, that we should then reward them with positive PR.  To me, it screams that we should expose their duplicity.

[HeroofTime55]

Deliberately attempting to start a sanction war would require a lot more than just oyababy taking EU's word for it that the sanction is legit.

 

Pick one storyline or the other, they don't work together.

 

I don't recall using the word "deliberately" but excellent strawman 10/10 A++++++++++ would read again.

 

I do recall saying you were stupid.  I called you "mouth-breathers with poo for brains" in my preceding post, I'm quite proud of myself for that one. And indeed, I think you are too stupid to have any idea what you were getting yourselves into.  You have no conception of consequences and you just do what you want.  Which is why we are here.

Edited March 7, 2013 by HeroofTime55

[RevolutionaryRebel]

Okay, children. Let's let the 'supped GODs and the Shrooms pull their sanctions peacefully before anything incredibly stupid happens as a result of people incessantly butting into other peoples' business.

 

You can't go around talking about how you 'don't want to start a sanction war', when you don't make a decent effort to communicate. That goes for both sides. Even if you don't have an Embassy. OWF is a poor man's substitute for direct negotiations and we all know this. HoT knew that if this went to the OWF it would start a shitfest and was evidently successful.

 

I don't have any direct interest in this so by all means; wage a sanction war against each other. But as a friend of mine said, 'you're a daisy if you do'.

[King Cyan]

 

 Nobody wants a sanction war.

 

I think you do.  You know you do <3

 

 

 

Hasn't MK rouged every alliance "competance" is at war with?

 

Yep, including yours.  

Edited March 7, 2013 by KingCyan

[HeroofTime55]

You know you do <3

 

I sure as hell do.  Would make color sphere politics VERY interesting to see a full on sanction war.  That would be entertaining to watch.  Whole coalitions swapping colors to duel in the senate for the ultimate right to wreak havoc on enemy nations, dodging sanctions with color switches, that would be thrilling.

 

TPTB don't want it though, which is a shame tbh.  Could reinvigorate the whole world.  You want to talk about incentives for bringing in fresh meat.

[Ernesto Che Guevara]

Okay, children. Let's let the 'supped GODs and the Shrooms pull their sanctions peacefully before anything incredibly stupid happens as a result of people incessantly butting into other peoples' business.

 

You can't go around talking about how you 'don't want to start a sanction war', when you don't make a decent effort to communicate. That goes for both sides. Even if you don't have an Embassy. OWF is a poor man's substitute for direct negotiations and we all know this. HoT knew that if this went to the OWF it would start a shitfest and was evidently successful.

 

I don't have any direct interest in this so by all means; wage a sanction war against each other. But as a friend of mine said, 'you're a daisy if you do'.

 

Holy shit, this man is a genius. 

[HeroofTime55]

Holy shit, this man is a genius. 

 

You mean you didn't know you were giving me what I wanted on a silver platter?

 

You guys want to come over for poker later tonight?

[Ernesto Che Guevara]

You mean you didn't know you were giving me what I wanted on a silver platter?

 

You guys want to come over for poker later tonight?

 

I saw that as "pork" and I'm really hungry. You're a tease. 

[D34th]

I hope I never see the day where sanctioning becomes an acceptable tactic to use against an opponent in this world.

 

You need to pay more attention to what happens in cyberverse, the day already come, NSO used senate sanctions against Kaskus and nobody(besides me) complained.

[AirMe]

You need to pay more attention to what happens in cyberverse, the day already come, NSO used senate sanctions against Kaskus and nobody(besides me) complained.

 

If I had the time....I probably would.