Upper End of the War

[Vespassianus]

Somehow NG found upper tier war slots, how come you couldn't roll the very same nations until they came in? And there are still plenty of free slots at high tier as far as i can see. The people who were in war mode at your declaration did a good job, but since then none really came out and fought, altough SF/XX/Aft were terribly passive (there are only few exceptions), you ought to win this war alone at high tiers, but i don't really see the fighting spirit, like helping out people on other fronts (i guess Umb and TOP would welcome some support).

 

I have a feeling that you just want this over with as minimal damage suffered as possible, you don't really want to crush all the alliances who declared war on you.

 

(and yeah it's kinda funny when a side who supposed lose this war is debating that can they even declare wars at high tier :D )

Edited February 10, 2013 by Vespassianus

[magicninja]

Somehow NG found upper tier war slots, how come you couldn't roll the very same nations until they came in? And there are still plenty of free slots at high tier as far as i can see. The people who were in war mode at your declaration did a good job, but since then none really came out and fought, altough SF/XX/Aft were terribly passive (there are only few exceptions), you ought to win this war alone at high tiers, but i don't really see the fighting spirit, like helping out people on other fronts (i guess Umb and TOP would welcome some support).

 

I have a feeling that you just want this over with as minimal damage suffered as possible, you don't really want to crush all the alliances who declared war on you.

 

(and yeah it's kinda funny when a side who supposed lose this war is debating that can they even declare wars at high tier :D )

 

NG got hit by a few alliances. Right now EQ is too scared of an HB entry to put anyone on GATO. Like you said its not like we're hiding our top tier. With that in mind, it's more efficient for us to wipe out an alliances top tier (usually within a week) and move on rather than putting everyone everywhere. We will get to everyone eventually. It's not about taking minimal damage..it's about dealing maximum damage efficiently. 

[Vespassianus]

Yeah it's a fair tactic too to remove threats one by one, but with tech advantage if you have 3 targets and you can effectively coordinate you can win a lot of land and even tech during one round of war, while you eat daily 1 nuke only.

[magicninja]

Yeah it's a fair tactic too to remove threats one by one, but with tech advantage if you have 3 targets and you can effectively coordinate you can win a lot of land and even tech during one round of war, while you eat daily 1 nuke only.

 

It works either way. NG was forced into facing many alliances and we have the option of wiping out one at a time. As we wipe out more and more NG and the rest of CnG will have less and less to worry about.

[Namayan]

You are a fool.*

I didnt say that they will join Q.

The comment was in the context of the numbers. What I mentioned is there are still a lot of micros with handfull of over 100k nations that could bandwagon the Q side. Completely hypothetical. Will this really happen? Probably not. If it happens will it turn the tide on over 100k ? Difficult to say. As I mentioned the only alliances that really could turn the tide would be OBR and Creole (former Fark/Polar protectorate). Will they join the war? Probably not.

Regarding HB, yes I cited it wrongly. Regarding Alpha Omega I think they wouldnt join Q per se, but I doubt that they wouldnt respond if Sparta asked them to joing against TLR for example. Will this happen? Difficult to say.

I am not being biased here. In fact, I think the war is going pretty well for DH side as they have a great number of >100k in PM.

The >100k PM nations from ODN, GATO, TLR will certainly make a huge damage when they enter the war.

You are a defensive clown.*


Edit: * I withdraw the lines where I called you a fool and a clown. No need for that specially here. I apologize.

 

 

You are more of clown to me twisting what you said and not reading the OP nor his updated posts.

[King Louis the II]

 
 
You are more of clown to me twisting what you said and not reading the OP nor his updated posts.

I read the OP, I asked if there was New Stats. New analysis, is that so difficult to understand?

Second, not twisting anything, look at my post and see that they are consistent.

however I made the mistake about HB, which I recognize.

And as I said, this is not the place for this argument.

[Secret]

NG got hit by a few alliances. Right now EQ is too scared of an HB entry to put anyone on GATO. Like you said its not like we're hiding our top tier. With that in mind, it's more efficient for us to wipe out an alliances top tier (usually within a week) and move on rather than putting everyone everywhere. We will get to everyone eventually. It's not about taking minimal damage..it's about dealing maximum damage efficiently. 

 

 

Yeah, that's what we're scared of  :huh:

 

Honestly, I don't know what's worse, the fact that you honestly believe that or the fact that you believe GATO is actually wrecking anyone. 

 

Please do continue, though. You might have a future in stand up comedy one day. 

 

 

PS: No one's scared of HB and GATO isn't wrecking anything. 

[Namayan]

I read the OP, I asked if there was New Stats. New analysis, is that so difficult to understand?

Second, not twisting anything, look at my post and see that they are consistent.

however I made the mistake about HB, which I recognize.

And as I said, this is not the place for this argument.

 

:facepalm:  Main reason I replied to you because you have been whining about the updated analysis and statistics which was posted several posts before you inquired about it.  

 

The analysis was there for everyone to read, it is what loco,magicninja,etc are basing their analysis from.  You are like many pages behind from what I can see.  

 

:facepalm:  

[Khyber]

I hear this talk about how the mid tier will be dominated by eQ by the end of this war, but there seems to be some serious problems with that logic.

 

First, one only needs to look at the alliances GATO has finished with, and AI.  AI has lost most nations all the way down to 60k.  GATO is doing the same thing one alliance at a time.

 

It will not only be the 100k+ NS range that DH and co. will dominate, it is anything over 80k.  And if they keep their nations in the 60k to 70k in peace mode until more of those higher end nations on their side drop to help them out, they can probably dominate the 50-60k.

 

Sure eQ will have a huge number of nations below 50k, but that is hardly something to brag about, and they certain can no longer claim dominance of the mid tier, just the lower end of the mid tier.

 

Barring any major alliances joining in, and joining in soon, the writing is on the wall from what I see eQ will not only be forced to give white peace, but those that bow out late will suffer more damage than the rest as they will find themselves outnumbered in the tiers they thought they dominated in.  The gambit has failed.

 

And if you think numbers is all you need to win, just remember what FAN showed Legion back in the day.  I'm afraid I'm seeing a lot of similarities from those days as I am in eQ, especially with the attack on TLR that brought in NG.

[Unknown Smurf]

I hear this talk about how the mid tier will be dominated by eQ by the end of this war, but there seems to be some serious problems with that logic.

 

First, one only needs to look at the alliances GATO has finished with, and AI.  AI has lost most nations all the way down to 60k.  GATO is doing the same thing one alliance at a time.

 

It will not only be the 100k+ NS range that DH and co. will dominate, it is anything over 80k.  And if they keep their nations in the 60k to 70k in peace mode until more of those higher end nations on their side drop to help them out, they can probably dominate the 50-60k.

 

Sure eQ will have a huge number of nations below 50k, but that is hardly something to brag about, and they certain can no longer claim dominance of the mid tier, just the lower end of the mid tier.

 

Barring any major alliances joining in, and joining in soon, the writing is on the wall from what I see eQ will not only be forced to give white peace, but those that bow out late will suffer more damage than the rest as they will find themselves outnumbered in the tiers they thought they dominated in.  The gambit has failed.

 

And if you think numbers is all you need to win, just remember what FAN showed Legion back in the day.  I'm afraid I'm seeing a lot of similarities from those days as I am in eQ, especially with the attack on TLR that brought in NG.

 

I think the one fact you overlook is that a lot of the damage output in the 60-90k tier was done by those 100k+ nations that were beat down and still had a large stockpile of nukes on hand. The sheer number of nations should allow eQ to win the 60-80k tier (with no decisive victor in the 80-105k tier and DH holding the 105k+ tier) just based on the nuke issue stated many times in this thread (DH nations being nuked daily while they can only send 2 out per day)

 

That said, I think eQs side is screwed in this war and has screwed over any semblance of long term victory they will have. This war was rushed, they would have been better off to wait politically speaking. It has also fractured whatever chance Polarsphere had from exiting isolation imo. The troll squad in DR/NSO sphere has also done a good job of pissing off XX/SFs general membership and I think we won't see these two sides huddling together post-war in order to keep the DH threat down as some seem to have suggested in this thread.

 

EDIT: Chance not change

Edited February 11, 2013 by Unknown Smurf

[Aeros]

Equilibrium has over 50,000 nuclear weapons. Disequlibrium has around 15,000. That really is all that needs to be said here.

[HHAYD]

I'd think that's sufficent to at least cause an inequality in NS among C&G/DH/NG/etc for a while.

 

EDIT: Still seeing some of their fighters in PM, in the middle of the shark tank. I am disappointed.

Edited February 11, 2013 by HHAYD

[Khyber]

I think the one fact you overlook is that a lot of the damage output in the 60-90k tier was done by those 100k+ nations that were beat down and still had a large stockpile of nukes on hand. The sheer number of nations should allow eQ to win the 60-80k tier (with no decisive victor in the 80-105k tier and DH holding the 105k+ tier) just based on the nuke issue stated many times in this thread (DH nations being nuked daily while they can only send 2 out per day)

 

That said, I think eQs side is screwed in this war and has screwed over any semblance of long term victory they will have. This war was rushed, they would have been better off to wait politically speaking. It has also fractured whatever chance Polarsphere had from exiting isolation imo. The troll squad in DR/NSO sphere has also done a good job of pissing off XX/SFs general membership and I think we won't see these two sides huddling together post-war in order to keep the DH threat down as some seem to have suggested in this thread.

 

EDIT: Chance not change

 

I think that advantage of numbers disappears when those in the 90-100k are tearing through the 80k nations, and those in the 80k are fighting the 70k nations, and so on.  As those in the 90-100k drop down from fighting those in the 80k they will hit the 70k as well, and as those in the 80k drop down they will hit the 60k, and that is when the alliances on the DH and C&G side will start getting out of peace mode in those ranges.

 

Attacking at the bottom of your range is a huge advantage.

 

Factor in that the lower in NS you fight the more inactivity you have, and that advantage will shrink even more.

 

I believe you will see things stop around the 50k due to this kind of fighting, and around there for nations that got there on the DH side their warchests can allow them to fight for months.

 

eQ has lost, but it will take about 2 months before it is clear to everyone.

 

And you are right about the fracture on the eQ side.  Couple that with low moral after losing a war, everyone will be blaming everyone, and DH can probably get a chance to curb stomp polarsphere without anyone lifting a finger to help them after that.  I am also sure you will see some alliances join the DH/C&G side due to anger with the eQ side.

[the rebel]

Factor in that the lower in NS you fight the more inactivity you have, and that advantage will shrink even more.

 

I believe you will see things stop around the 50k due to this kind of fighting, and around there for nations that got there on the DH side their warchests can allow them to fight for months.

 

eQ has lost, but it will take about 2 months before it is clear to everyone.

 

And you are right about the fracture on the eQ side.  Couple that with low moral after losing a war, everyone will be blaming everyone, and DH can probably get a chance to curb stomp polarsphere without anyone lifting a finger to help them after that.  I am also sure you will see some alliances join the DH/C&G side due to anger with the eQ side.

 

Can I borrow your crystal ball for this weeks lottery numbers?

[Vol Navy]

Have you ever fought a lopsided war? In the first cycle I and a few others updeclared on an 111k NS nation. I had to stock up to get up to 85k to DOW him. In that war I lost about 12k NS. He went from 111k to 78k and is now at 62k. That's with him rebuying several thousand infra multiple times in the war.  He has 0 nukes now, even with limited nuking in the first round.

 

Next round I dow'd Vlad and another nation, Both fully stocked because they'd just left peace mode. In a round Vlad went from 70k ns to 38k ns and used up all 25 of his nukes. The other guy was 80k NS and was 32k NS at the end of the round. He had 6 nukes left at the end of the cycle. I took a combined 12k ns loss on both fronts. 

 

The  70-90k nations on the small side are going to take 30-50k damage per round and dish out that, if lucky and not out of nukes spread among 3 or more opponents, 

 

Credit to Vlad for not turtling at least. He didn't have much success after day 3 or so when his infra advantage over me evened up. The other fella turtled and took DA's every day and ended up losing about 20k more NS than Vlad did.

 

 

I think that advantage of numbers disappears when those in the 90-100k are tearing through the 80k nations, and those in the 80k are fighting the 70k nations, and so on.  As those in the 90-100k drop down from fighting those in the 80k they will hit the 70k as well, and as those in the 80k drop down they will hit the 60k, and that is when the alliances on the DH and C&G side will start getting out of peace mode in those ranges.

 

Attacking at the bottom of your range is a huge advantage.

 

Factor in that the lower in NS you fight the more inactivity you have, and that advantage will shrink even more.

 

I believe you will see things stop around the 50k due to this kind of fighting, and around there for nations that got there on the DH side their warchests can allow them to fight for months.

 

eQ has lost, but it will take about 2 months before it is clear to everyone.

 

And you are right about the fracture on the eQ side.  Couple that with low moral after losing a war, everyone will be blaming everyone, and DH can probably get a chance to curb stomp polarsphere without anyone lifting a finger to help them after that.  I am also sure you will see some alliances join the DH/C&G side due to anger with the eQ side.

[Steve Buscemi]

Equilibrium has over 50,000 nuclear weapons. Disequlibrium has around 15,000. That really is all that needs to be said here.

Start breaking up Equilibrium into two coalitions.  Now take the competent half (DR/NPO) + 1/5th the nukes of the XX/SF/AB inactive mass and you have the true number of nuclear stockpile that could be used.  Remove all nations below 50K from the that number.  I think you'll see a different picture.

[Unknown Smurf]

I think that advantage of numbers disappears when those in the 90-100k are tearing through the 80k nations, and those in the 80k are fighting the 70k nations, and so on.  As those in the 90-100k drop down from fighting those in the 80k they will hit the 70k as well, and as those in the 80k drop down they will hit the 60k, and that is when the alliances on the DH and C&G side will start getting out of peace mode in those ranges.

 

Attacking at the bottom of your range is a huge advantage.

 

You are working under the assumption that once a 75k NS DH nation brings down 3 75k NS eQ nations down to to sub-60k with him, there isn't enough 75k NS eQ nations left to fill his place. That is not the case. 

 

WAPA/GDA/TSC/Echelon/NSO/Shangri La/UPN/FEAR//Avalanche/STA/Knights of Ni/Apparatus/Oceania/FoB/RoK/TJL/Neb-X all have allied alliances who are at war with DH but have not entered yet. I assume they are strategically waiting to best engage (prob when C&G comes out of PM en masse)

 

With those nations you have: 

 

WAPA

 

nations 50-100k: 6

--> 50-75k: 3

--> 75k-100k: 3

nations 100k+: 9

 

GDA

 

nations 50-100k: 21

--> 50-75k: 14

--> 75k-100k: 7

nations 100k+: 7

 

TSC

 

nations 50-100k: 6

--> 50-75k: 2 

--> 75k-100k: 4 

nations 100k+: 1 

 

Echelon

 

nations 50-100k: 10

--> 50-75k: 7 

--> 75k-100k: 3 

nations 100k+: 6

 

NSO

 

nations 50-100k: 15

--> 50-75k: 7 

--> 75k-100k: 8 

nations 100k+: 5

 

Shangri La

 

nations 50-100k: 12

--> 50-75k: 9

--> 75k-100k: 3

nations 100k+: 1 

 

UPN

 

nations 50-100k: 17

--> 50-75k: 11

--> 75k-100k: 6

nations 100k+: 3

 

FEAR

nations 50-100k: 17

--> 50-75k: 10 

--> 75k-100k: 7 

nations 100k+: 6 

 

Wolfpack

nations 50-100k: 4

--> 50-75k: 2

--> 75k-100k: 2

nations 100k+: 9

 

Avalanche

 

nations 50-100k: 9

 

--> 50-75k: 7 

--> 75k-100k: 2

nations 100k+:4

 

STA

 

nations 50-100k: 23

--> 50-75k: 12

--> 75k-100k: 11

nations 100k+: 3

 

Knights of Ni

 

nations 50-100k: 10

 

--> 50-75k: 4

--> 75k-100k: 6

nations 100k+: 13

 

Apparatus

 

nations 50-100k: 14 

 

--> 50-75k: 9

--> 75k-100k: 5

nations 100k+: 4

 

Oceania

 

nations 50-100k: 11

 

--> 50-75k: 11

--> 75k-100k: 0

nations 100k+: 1

 

FoB

 

nations 50-100k: 5 

--> 50-75k: 4

--> 75k-100k: 1

nations 100k+: 4

 

RoK:

 

nations 50-100k: 12 

 

--> 50-75k: 6

--> 75k-100k: 6

nations 100k+: 3

 

TJL

 

nations 50-100k: 3

 

--> 50-75k: 2

--> 75k-100k: 1

nations 100k+: 6

 

Neb-X

nations 50-100k: 8

--> 50-75k: 6

--> 75k-100k: 2

nations 100k+: 0

 

CRAP

 

nations 50-100k: 17

 

--> 50-75k: 9

--> 75k-100k: 8

nations 100k+: 3

 

EDIT2: Removed team rocket

Edited February 11, 2013 by Unknown Smurf

[Stetson76]

Start breaking up Equilibrium into two coalitions.  Now take the competent half (DR/NPO) + 1/5th the nukes of the XX/SF/AB inactive mass and you have the true number of nuclear stockpile that could be used.  Remove all nations below 50K from the that number.  I think you'll see a different picture.

 

That's may or may not be true, but EQ can afford to have people re-buy while DH will be buying and firing.  That means the number of EQ nukes will remain fairly consistent at this point while the DH numbers will continue to drop (assuming they're not all tied up in PM.)

[Unknown Smurf]

I should point out that that totals to:

 

88 nations over 100k NS (at least 1 224k NS and I would estimate 10ish over 150k but I wasn't paying complete attention tbh, I can recount if anyone wants it)

228 50-100k NS total with 135 in the 50-75k range and 85 in the 75-100k range. 

 

EDIT: Added breakdown

 

EDIT2: Removed team rocket

Edited February 11, 2013 by Unknown Smurf

[Dochartaigh]

Team Rocket is an NG splinter US. Rok is already hitting ODN/INT. Avalanche is hitting TLR.

[Umar ibn Abd al-Aziz]

Team Rocket is an NG splinter US. Rok is already hitting ODN/INT. Avalanche is hitting TLR.

 

CRAP is in the war against NG. ML is already in on TOP. I don't see any ties for WAPA to come in on an ODP for the CCC against ODN and INT, tbqh.

 

e: The list of reserves looks to be an ambit claim rather than a serious one, but as I've said before, the more, the merrier :D

Edited February 11, 2013 by Umar ibn Abd al-Aziz

[Unknown Smurf]

Ah well I apparently haven't been paying enough attention to this war :P

 

I put WAPA in because they were in Aztec right? Tehy still have ties to GLOF/AB?

 

EDIT: Checking on WAPA now.

 

EDIT2: I'm not sure if WAPAs MDoAP with Colossus carried over after Colossus merged with GLOF.. can anyone confirm either way? 

 

EDIT3: WAPA is allied to tLR who is allied to Legion/Invicta/TTK and menotah who is currently uninvolved... so I'm putting them on eQs side. 

 

EDIT4:

 

 

CRAP is in the war against NG. ML is already in on TOP. I don't see any ties for WAPA to come in on an ODP for the CCC against ODN and INT, tbqh.

 

e: The list of reserves looks to be an ambit claim rather than a serious one, but as I've said before, the more, the merrier  :D

 

ML/CRAP both aren't fully engaged. ML has 8 wars for 21 nations and CRAP has 20 for 60 nations.

Edited February 11, 2013 by Unknown Smurf

[Eumirbago]

CRAP is in the war against NG. ML is already in on TOP. I don't see any ties for WAPA to come in on an ODP for the CCC against ODN and INT, tbqh.

 

e: The list of reserves looks to be an ambit claim rather than a serious one, but as I've said before, the more, the merrier :D

 

But an attack on one is an attack on all right? :P

[Zoomzoomzoom]

You mean we've fought this long only to be defeated by WAPA/GDA/TSC/Echelon/NSO/Shangri La/UPN/FEAR//Avalanche/STA/Knights of Ni/Apparatus/Oceania/FoB/RoK/TJL/Neb-X? well shit

[Unknown Smurf]

You mean we've fought this long only to be defeated by WAPA/GDA/TSC/Echelon/NSO/Shangri La/UPN/FEAR//Avalanche/STA/Knights of Ni/Apparatus/Oceania/FoB/RoK/TJL/Neb-X? well shit

 

The original point that was being argued was that there aren't enough 60k+ eQ nations to hold the mid tier. I believe eQ does and should (will) hold it up to 80/85k NS. 

 

 

Alliances I missed above:
 

Terran Empire (in bloc with invicta/CCC -- Arizona)

nations 50-100k: 9

--> 50-75k: 3

--> 75k-100k: 6

nations 100k+: 6 (one 200k+)

 

NEAT (in arizona)

 

 

nations 50-100k: 5

--> 50-75k: 3

--> 75k-100k: 2

nations 100k+: 2 (both 150k+)

 

SUN (only treaty is a oDoAP with tLR and invicta PIAT) 

 

nations 50-100k: 6

--> 50-75k: 3

--> 75k-100k: 3

nations 100k+: 5

 

GPF

 

 

nations 50-100k: 5

--> 50-75k: 5 

--> 75k-100k: 0

nations 100k+:  1

 

 

Menotah (Arizona)

 

nations 50-100k: 10

--> 50-75k: 7

--> 75k-100k: 3

nations 100k+:  1

 

AGW Overlords (MDoAP with Sparta)

nations 50-100k: 9

--> 50-75k: 4

--> 75k-100k: 5

nations 100k+:  0