A little announcement

[Sunny Side King]

[quote name='Tromp' timestamp='1340043748' post='2987826']
This is cute. Thanks for admitting what a cowards you guys were last war though. And apparently you haven't lost this trait. Good on you!
[/quote]

It's not cowardly to want to win the war. FOK would have brought in PB which could have been the winning factor for SF/XX/Polar.

[Omniscient1]

[quote name='Sunny Side King' timestamp='1340063476' post='2988077']
It's not cowardly to want to win the war. FOK would have brought in PB which could have been the winning factor for SF/XX/Polar.
[/quote]

No, actually it is cowardly to be afraid of losing a war. You can argue that it was a smart move to not fight RnR and sell out people like LoSS and ASG, but there is no way you can argue that it was a brave move. Being afraid of making moves because of lost political position is the epitome of cowardice.

Do you have the power to let power go? If not you're just a slave to the power you seek to control.

[Ardus]

[quote name='Omniscient1' timestamp='1340064683' post='2988090']
No, actually it is cowardly to be afraid of losing a war. You can argue that it was a smart move to not fight RnR and sell out people like LoSS and ASG, but there is no way you can argue that it was a brave move. Being afraid of making moves because of lost political position is the epitome of cowardice.

Do you have the power to let power go? If not you're just a slave to the power you seek to control.
[/quote]
There is a universe of difference between desire for victory and fear of loss. Here you confuse wisdom for cowardice and bravery for stupidity. Nobody was going to cross FOK and put the whole coalition in jeopardy. The damage to LoSS and ASG was unfortunate, but the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.

Edited June 19, 2012 by Ardus

[Neo Uruk]

[quote name='Sunny Side King' timestamp='1340063476' post='2988077']
It's not cowardly to want to win the war. FOK would have brought in PB which could have been the winning factor for SF/XX/Polar.
[/quote]
"It's not cowardly to sell out coalition members in order to win the war"

[AmbroseIV]

... people get [i]exactly[/i] what they want and still aren't happy? Tough crowd.

[quote name='Tromp' timestamp='1340043748' post='2987826']
This is cute. Thanks for admitting what a cowards you guys were last war though. And apparently you haven't lost this trait. Good on you!
[/quote]

Maybe he's just bitter and dislikes FOK from the UJW... then again, and depending on who you ask, GATO left us alone last war out of respect for INT. Either way, R&R's fault for publically shaming our allies into supporting us during the last wa-... wait, sorry — that didn't happen... I got R&R confused with someone else. :|

[Omniscient1]

[quote name='Ardus' timestamp='1340065073' post='2988092']
There is a universe of difference between desire for victory and fear of loss. Here you confuse wisdom for cowardice and bravery for stupidity. Nobody was going to cross FOK and put the whole coalition in jeopardy. The damage to LoSS and ASG was unfortunate, but the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.
[/quote]

Two sides of the same coin my friend. Probably best to end this convo now though, or we'll get into semantics over fear and desire. What they really mean blah...blah... and I quite honestly don't want to have a conversation like that.

I personally don't care who is brave or who is smart. As long as you do right by your friends, and help the world that's all that matters to me. You made a lot of people angry when you had ASG fight for you with 0 backup, and then !@#$ all over their allies while they were busy. I guess the blame really lies on the people who allowed it to happen though. Those who weren't brave enough to stand up and say "no not happening". It was neither smart nor brave.

[EgoFreaky]

[quote name='Ardus' timestamp='1340065073' post='2988092']
There is a universe of difference between desire for victory and fear of loss. Here you confuse wisdom for cowardice and bravery for stupidity. Nobody was going to cross FOK and put the whole coalition in jeopardy. The damage to LoSS and ASG was unfortunate, but the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.
[/quote]

I just wonder if you gave the few a voice in that decision.

[King Louis the II]

[quote name='EgoFreaky' timestamp='1340068986' post='2988128']
I just wonder if you gave the few a voice in that decision.
[/quote]


[img]http://gifsoup.com/webroot/animatedgifs3/1320851_o.gif[/img]

[Overlord Kerst]

o/ R&R!

[Lukapaka]

Go get em

[flak attack]

[quote name='Yevgeni Luchenkov' timestamp='1340038320' post='2987766']
Like who?

Two "active" alliances got an upper tier that could, together, be problematic for Umbrella: TOP and Sparta.
[/quote]
We once added up NG (post FOK merger), MK and TOP. Combined the three were almost even with Umbrella at all the upper tiers. That said, that scenario is highly unlikely.

Edited June 19, 2012 by flak attack

[Sunny Side King]

[quote name='Neo Uruk' timestamp='1340065128' post='2988093']
"It's not cowardly to sell out coalition members in order to win the war"
[/quote]

It's not selling out - it's not ideal nor perfect but it's still winning and that's what counts - sure you take more damage but it's still winning. Believe me I know, PC got screwed over prior to Loss/ASG. There have been plenty of alliances that have gotten the short end of the stick over the years in order to win the war. Majority over minority. The needs of the many outweigh the few etc etc.

[603Redneck]

[quote name='RuffRyders' timestamp='1340048902' post='2987878']
GPA? lol

NG is who your referring too... our top tier is pretty nice.
[/quote]
Not gonna lie, NG is pretty sexy!

[Stewie]

[quote name='Redneck' timestamp='1340107004' post='2988796']
Not gonna lie, NG is pretty sexy!
[/quote]


Which part of us do you love the most?

Our FOK body?
Our IFOK Brain?
Our SLCB Heart?
Our Hydra Balls?
Our PC Fists?
Our TR Bum?

[Jake Liebenow]

[quote name='Stewie' timestamp='1340107483' post='2988801']
Which part of us do you love the most?

Our FOK body?
Our IFOK Brain?
Our SLCB Heart?
Our Hydra Balls?
Our PC Fists?
Our TR Bum?
[/quote]

Dat Team Rocket

[img]http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/0bkj3km5vc03l/610x.jpg[/img]

[603Redneck]

[quote name='Stewie' timestamp='1340107483' post='2988801']
Which part of us do you love the most?

Our FOK body?
Our IFOK Brain?
Our SLCB Heart?
Our Hydra Balls?
Our PC Fists?
Our TR Bum?
[/quote]
im gonna have to go with stewie's bum!

[Comrade Craig]

Some people would wring their hands and express the sadness and sorrow they feel when friends come to blows... Some people, but not me. I love this !@#$.

Kill 'em all, R&R!

Salt the earth behind you, GATO!

Happy Birthday, TLR!

It is time to burn the planet down and start again.

-Craig

Edited June 19, 2012 by Comrade Craig

[porksaber]

[quote name='Comrade Craig' timestamp='1340137617' post='2989145']
Some people would wring their hands and express the sadness and sorrow they feel when friends come to blows... Some people, but not me. I love this !@#$.

Kill 'em all, R&R!

Salt the earth behind you, GATO!

Happy Birthday, TLR!

It is time to burn the planet down and start again.

-Craig
[/quote]


Just as a point of interest, it's pretty awesome how the quoted post ended up right below the sig of the previous post.

[SoADarthCyfe6]

[quote name='Tromp' timestamp='1340043748' post='2987826']
This is cute. Thanks for admitting what a cowards you guys were last war though. And apparently you haven't lost this trait. Good on you!
[/quote]

Right, considering FOK was using its political capital to threaten anyone who dared to attack RnR by calling in PB, it's nice to know that you were putting the entire coalition at risk just because you wanted to save your SF allies for your own political reasons. As for that, it was why FOK helped put the final nails in the coffin of PB. Also, by your logic, you are saying we were bad allies because we didn't defend LoSS, yet you put your own allies and own coalition at risk as well? Sounds a bit on the hypocritical side of things.

The !@#$%* part of this was option presented to us being "Save your one ally, while putting the rest of your allies at risk" or "Save the rest of your allies, while putting one of your allies at risk." It was a pretty lousy option for us to choose from.

[Tromp]

[quote name='SoADarthCyfe6' timestamp='1340200740' post='2989996']
Right, considering FOK was using its political capital to threaten anyone who dared to attack RnR by calling in PB, it's nice to know that you were putting the entire coalition at risk just because you wanted to save your SF allies for your own political reasons. As for that, it was why FOK helped put the final nails in the coffin of PB. Also, by your logic, you are saying we were bad allies because we didn't defend LoSS, yet you put your own allies and own coalition at risk as well? Sounds a bit on the hypocritical side of things.

The !@#$%* part of this was option presented to us being "Save your one ally, while putting the rest of your allies at risk" or "Save the rest of your allies, while putting one of your allies at risk." It was a pretty lousy option for us to choose from.
[/quote]

Damn, you are not just stupid and cowardly, but also ignorant.

It may seem like a revolutionary concept to someone from GATO, but we actually tried to help our allies out. Boo frickin' hoo, if that's going to be held against us. You have to realize not everyone will degrade themselves in the way you do in order to save your own skin.
Furthermore, we were not part of a 'coalition', and it is quite hilarious that you seem to think we were. And unless we've been lied to, it was only NG being part of a coalition in the past war. Which immediately answers your next allegation. It wasn't FOK that made PB ultimately disband, rather it was NG with their duplicitous behavior. They weren't thinking in terms of collective PB interests by that point, but only their own. Although that's beside the point here.

I'm sure people have taking notes on how you guys treat your so called allies. Not only were you quite open about wanting to see one of your allies' partners be crushed, on the grounds of them being an 'aggressor', but on top of that you supported an alliance you're not even tied to in their aggressive war. I’m sure this makes sense in GATO’s world, where nobody seems to be able to think for themselves, but for the rest of us it makes you seem like idiots. So $%&@ off and start working on the numerous character faults of yours before acting all tough.

[SoADarthCyfe6]

[quote name='Tromp' timestamp='1340280316' post='2991744']
Damn, you are not just stupid and cowardly, but also ignorant.

It may seem like a revolutionary concept to someone from GATO, but [b]we actually tried to help our allies out[/b]. Boo frickin' hoo, if that's going to be held against us. You have to realize not everyone will degrade themselves in the way you do in order to save your own skin.

Furthermore, we were not part of a 'coalition', and it is quite hilarious that you seem to think we were. And unless we've been lied to, it was only NG being part of a coalition in the past war. Which immediately answers your next allegation. It wasn't FOK that made PB ultimately disband, rather it was NG with their duplicitous behavior. They weren't thinking in terms of collective PB interests by that point, but only their own. Although that's beside the point here.

I'm sure people have taking notes on how you guys treat your so called allies. [b]Not only were you quite open about wanting to see one of your allies' partners be crushed,[/b] on the grounds of them being an 'aggressor', but on top of that you supported an alliance you're not even tied to in their aggressive war. I’m sure this makes sense in GATO’s world, where nobody seems to be able to think for themselves, but for the rest of us it makes you seem like idiots. So $%&@ off and start working on the numerous character faults of yours before acting all tough.
[/quote]

See this is the problem. If you were actually trying to help your allies out and did not have some political motive behind actually defending your allies (Hint: it involves a certain post made by some powerful political figure in MK at the time, that was revealed to SF from a private embassy) then there would be some truth in this statement. But there isn't, FOK wanted the coalition to fractured and be distressed for whatever delusional reasoning that was (Hence proven why FOK was using its Political Capital to threaten anyone who dared to attack RnR.) Allies get attacked by your other allies quite a bit these days, even those involved do happen to like each other. It's horrible, but business is business and that's why they get off with White Peace and no repercussions. RnR knew perfectly well what side of the treaty web they were on, and they even admitted it post war when they said they are keeping their XX ties because they felt as though it's keeping their side of the treaty web afloat.

The fact of the matter is, PB was in the coalition and FOK was in PB. Even all of FOK's allies with the exception of RnR participated with the coalition. So don't even feed me some horsesh*t about how FOK was not apart of the coalition. To further go into detail about saying it was NG's fault for the PB fracture was just foolhardy to even mention it was entirely their fault. The majority of PB was in for rolling SF from the start while FOK and VE dragged their feet. Yet again, you are in a hypocritical position stating that it was NG's fault while FOK was just as much to blame, if not more.

To the second bolded statement, I have absolutely no problem wanting LSF to be crushed. They tried to use and jeopardize my alliance for their own grudges because they have a treaty well connected to CnG. The hell with that and that is the sole reason I believe they deserve to be crushed, aggressiveness has nothing to do with it. GATO has also openly stated that we support CSN being rolled and have no issue with it. As to address our allies comment, we treat our allies fairly well, and feel free to ask any of them as we all share a very good relationship with all of them. I can guarantee they will have nothing but goods things to say about us along with us to them as well.

I find it amusing that you're telling GATO that we have major character faults when you openly put the majority of your allies in a terrible position for a political motive. Also, your rebuttals have been nothing full of hypocrisy, stating 1) we are terrible allies (note the fracturing of PB and the coalition), 2) stating we have character flaws (note what FOK's political motive was in
the defense of their allies), and 3) Saying it was NG's fault for the PB fracture when FOK went against the majority of PB (note that this is the kettle calling the pot black.)

Yet somehow, I'm the dumb*ss here. Please come to me with a logical, non-rage filled, hypocritical argument the next time you try and prove a point.

[Tromp]

Good god. You should learn when to speak and when to shut up.

[quote name='SoADarthCyfe6' timestamp='1340379341' post='2992728']
See this is the problem. If you were actually trying to help your allies out and did not have some political motive behind actually defending your allies (Hint: it involves a certain post made by some powerful political figure in MK at the time, that was revealed to SF from a private embassy) then there would be some truth in this statement. But there isn't, FOK wanted the coalition to fractured and be distressed for whatever delusional reasoning that was (Hence proven why FOK was using its Political Capital to threaten anyone who dared to attack RnR.)[/quote]
Yes, an ally of ours is openly plotting the destruction of another ally, and we're supposed to let that slide. This is one rule out of GATOs FA handbook apparently, but certainly not ours. Listen, I don't give a $%&@ about whatever coalition you're referring to, I've said it back then and I'll say it now: that war wasn't our war. We clarified our position before that war even kicked off, so nothing on our end was in any sense malicious whatsoever. Excuse us for playing politics because that's in our interest!

[quote] Allies get attacked by your other allies quite a bit these days, even those involved do happen to like each other. It's horrible, but business is business and that's why they get off with White Peace and no repercussions. RnR knew perfectly well what side of the treaty web they were on, and they even admitted it post war when they said they are keeping their XX ties because they felt as though it's keeping their side of the treaty web afloat. [/quote]This is irrelevant.

[quote]
The fact of the matter is, PB was in the coalition and FOK was in PB. Even all of FOK's allies with the exception of RnR participated with the coalition. So don't even feed me some horsesh*t about how FOK was not apart of the coalition. To further go into detail about saying it was NG's fault for the PB fracture was just foolhardy to even mention it was entirely their fault. The majority of PB was in for rolling SF from the start while FOK and VE dragged their feet. Yet again, you are in a hypocritical position stating that it was NG's fault while FOK was just as much to blame, if not more. [/quote]
I have already told you, we were not part of a coaltion. As someone who was actually FOK government at the time, I'd like to think I know better what we did and did not commit our resources to than some rank and file member with a big mouth. Or hell, if you don't believe me, ask others who [i]were [/i]involved with it. But I suppose it's satisfying to ignore reality so you can keep telling yourself that what you made up is actually true.

As for the comment on PB, I've already said that's something for another topic and I won't further get into here.

[quote]
To the second bolded statement, I have absolutely no problem wanting LSF to be crushed. They tried to use and jeopardize my alliance for their own grudges because they have a treaty well connected to CnG. The hell with that and that is the sole reason I believe they deserve to be crushed, aggressiveness has nothing to do with it. GATO has also openly stated that we support CSN being rolled and have no issue with it.[/quote]
Good on you for admitting you're a coward [i]and [/i]a hypocrite then.

[quote] As to address our allies comment, we treat our allies fairly well, and feel free to ask any of them as we all share a very good relationship with all of them. I can guarantee they will have nothing but goods things to say about us along with us to them as well. [/quote]

All I was saying; INT deserves better than the !@#$ you've been throwing at them because you were running scared at the prospect of a tough war.

[quote]
I find it amusing that you're telling GATO that we have major character faults when you openly put the majority of your allies in a terrible position for a political motive. Also, your rebuttals have been nothing full of hypocrisy, stating 1) we are terrible allies (note the fracturing of PB and the coalition), 2) stating we have character flaws (note what FOK's political motive was in
the defense of their allies), and 3) Saying it was NG's fault for the PB fracture when FOK went against the majority of PB (note that this is the kettle calling the pot black.)
[/quote]
Here you go again, continuing to ignore what I've told you. Goddamn, I'm actually glad we never committed allegiance to your 'coalition', or we would have to put up with idiots like you. See first response.

[quote]
Yet somehow, I'm the dumb*ss here. Please come to me with a logical, non-rage filled, hypocritical argument the next time you try and prove a point.
[/quote]

I can't help it that you prove yourself to be a hypocrite and make things up like the idiot you are.

Please come back when you've actually put in some effort in verifying what you are asserting is true. Don't worry, I'll be waiting to hear you eat your words.

[SoADarthCyfe6]

[quote name='Tromp' timestamp='1340382145' post='2992748']
Wall of Rage Text
[/quote]

I feel like I'm arguing D34th or Alterego, the bewilderment of logic is too much for them and for you comprehend. I feel sorry for you, I truly do.

[Tromp]

Yeah, perhaps I would have said the same if I'd been caught on making things up.

Was nice playing with you.

Edited June 22, 2012 by Tromp

[Feanor Noldorin]

[quote name='SoADarthCyfe6' timestamp='1340382898' post='2992753']
I feel like I'm arguing D34th or Alterego, the bewilderment of logic is too much for them and for you comprehend. I feel sorry for you, I truly do.
[/quote]
It's just Tromp being Tromp.