A little announcement

[Monster]

[quote name='Raken' timestamp='1340028753' post='2987630']
I mean I definitely remember you asserting threats [b]directly at umbrella[/b] of your squandered aid deal. We were actually going to help Sparta and you decided to get way to autocratic and try to extort us of aid we were getting ready to give you.


These quotes are from the aid deal alone, I didn't have to dig far to find these.



Considering you accessing our Twitter as well, don't scratch your head and claim we are revising history when you decided to overstep your bounds and help destroy, not re-kindle any sort of Sparta relationship we had left. I'll agree that you joining Sparta wasn't fair for Sparta.
[/quote]

You weren't and that was the issue and openly admitted by someone in your government. "Too busy doing tech deals" That is what triggered that response. There were no actual plans to aid and that was a response to it.

I did threaten(and those weren't military threats, either), but you are saying I was actually openly calling for your destruction. Two different things. The threats which were not actually being used when they were relayed to you before I had actually made any definitive movement towards actually doing it. [b]Given the issue you just posted was sorted out with domisi after the logs you've posted, using it is kind of disengenous[/b]. Again, incoherence between gov, I guess. The issue you're referring to with not bugging the Kings is they didn't want to hear any bawwing from you because you were being very whiny.



Guess what? You destroyed the relationship and it was going to die anyway since 1. you weren't going to address the actual problems surrounding it and 2. you had no intentions of actually doing anything aiding. You talked about it, but it was never going to actually happen.

The issue is, the treaty should have been dispensed with after the war like others had suggested. The situations you've posted about wouldn't have mattered.* correction If you weren't expecting me to be angry with you, after the amount of crap you guys pulled on me, not sure what to say.

Edited June 18, 2012 by Roquentin

[Mr Vicarious]

[quote name='AAAAAAAAAAGGGG' timestamp='1339982590' post='2986875']
Cool.

Now how about those blocmates named Fark? Gonna defend them?
[/quote]


From what?

[Raken]

Compromise is a two-way street. Don't expect us to come all the way when you won't budge at all.


Edit: don't you love how roq edits his post like 5 minutes after you respond so it looks like he said all this other stuff that you didn't want to talk about but really he just waited for you to post. Man so squirmy.

Anyway, if you want to know domisi is a nice person, he generally isn't going to give you a hard time in general. Apologizing for committing a crime doesn't absolve you of your punishment Roq. As well by now, you'll know domisi is just one person in Umbrella and just because he doesn't mind the scummy things you did while in Sparta, doesn't mean myself and everyone else in Umbrella who saw the things you did weren't royally pissed off.

I mean it also didn't help when the last night before you went on our twitter, I approached Tulak for like the fifth time and asked him to keep you contained, he said he'd handle it and tell you to tone it down. At that point we knew Sparta had no control over your actions and thats when things got dangerous. Can't say you surprised us though.

Edited June 18, 2012 by Raken

[Nemhauser]

Good luck with your funeral and all.

[Monster]

[quote name='Raken' timestamp='1340029200' post='2987634']
Compromise is a two-way street. Don't expect us to come all the way when you won't budge at all.


Edit: don't you love how roq edits his post like 5 minutes after you respond so it looks like he said all this other stuff that you didn't want to talk about but really he just waited for you to post. Man so squirmy.

Anyway, if you want to know domisi is a nice person, he generally isn't going to give you a hard time in general. Apologizing for committing a crime doesn't absolve you of your punishment Roq. As well by now, you'll know domisi is just one person in Umbrella and just because he doesn't mind the scummy things you did while in Sparta, doesn't mean myself and everyone else in Umbrella who saw the things you did weren't royally pissed off.

I mean it also didn't help when the last night before you went on our twitter, I approached Tulak for like the fifth time and asked him to keep you contained, he said he'd handle it and tell you to tone it down. At that point we knew Sparta had no control over your actions and thats when things got dangerous. Can't say you surprised us though.
[/quote]

More I had things to add to clarify. edit happened simultaneously with your post.


No crime committed, maybe a vague intention expressed of doing something "bad". If the President considers the issue resolved, which he did, that can't be used as ammo later on. "scummy" thing only happen in response to "scummy" things. Don't claim any moral high ground considering the kind of crap you guys do.

I think it's a much bigger deal to try to discredit someone after cutting them out of their alliance by saying they're insane. It is also a bigger deal to promise aid and have no intentions to follow through.

No here's the deal: you made the twitter thing into something much bigger than it actually was. You were planning on pushing for a cancellation regardless of the twitter thing. You knew I had the password, and it was going to be perfectly clear it was me, and the main thing that triggered it was the fact that aid for maybe 3 nations was asked for as a more immediate contribution and when Umbrella had a plethora of open slots, it was kind of messed up that you wouldn't send even though I stopped most other activity that could be considered offensive. It was openly said by Natan that you were pushing for cancellation beforehand. Don't BS here.

There was very little that was subversive about it and you managed to spin it into "hacking." It wasn't really some sort of heinous act like you're trying to spin it. "AHHAHAHA IM HACKING INTO THE TWITTER AND AM TOTALLY OUT OF CONTROL" your spin. Obviously not an impartial slant versus "Well, I'm guessing Umbrella's aid slots are empty due to inactivity. I was told they don't really have an econ minister by the guy with the title, so maybe this would be an effective way of drawing attention to the issue." It was done with zero malice, when you managed to turn it into some sort of great tragedy.

That's pretty impressive. It wasn't covert in the least bit, nor could be it considered to be carried out with that intention. It is only regrettable because of faux moral outrage you guys decided to pull out based on it.

You just wanted to make a huge deal of it to make it go smoother. Don't be disengenuous here.

edit: off-topic, so I'll either make a blog or something for this issue.

Edited June 18, 2012 by Roquentin

[Feanor Noldorin]

Umbrella should get their very high end nations to sell all their infra to lower their individual NS. Once they are in decent NS range they should wreck everyone with their tech advantage. Doubt they'd do it though.

[Monster]

[quote name='Feanor Noldorin' timestamp='1340033294' post='2987682']
Umbrella should get their very high end nations to sell all their infra to lower their individual NS. Once they are in decent NS range they should wreck everyone with their tech advantage. Doubt they'd do it though.
[/quote]

It doesn't lower it enough for the biggest nations for it to have that impact and the nations they'd try to get in range would have already fallen out of their new ranges. For the more middle of the road nations, it might lower them into a territory where they can be swarmed and be counterproductive.

[Feanor Noldorin]

[quote name='Roquentin' timestamp='1340033516' post='2987684']
It doesn't lower it enough for the biggest nations for it to have that impact and the nations they'd try to get in range would have already fallen out of their new ranges. For the more middle of the road nations, it might lower them into a territory where they can be swarmed and be counterproductive.
[/quote]
I'll be honest, I wasn't sure how much it would lower their NS. Sucks for them I guess. If they can't get any action in this war I doubt they'll ever see any (if they continue to grow).

[Aeros]

[quote name='Feanor Noldorin' timestamp='1340034199' post='2987696']
I'll be honest, I wasn't sure how much it would lower their NS. Sucks for them I guess. If they can't get any action in this war I doubt they'll ever see any (if they continue to grow).
[/quote]

Methinks the only solution is Umbrella disbanding. Being serious. They have, what, 40% of the entire games population above 100k NS? There is no way they will ever fight enough alliances where they could engage that many 100k NS nations. TBH all the power is just dead weight if it can't be used. Victims of their own success.

[Monster]

[quote name='Aeros' timestamp='1340035050' post='2987715']
Methinks the only solution is Umbrella disbanding. Being serious. They have, what, 40% of the entire population above 100k NS? There is no way they will ever fight enough alliances where they could engage that many 100k NS nations. TBH all the power is just dead weight if it can't be used. Victims of their own success.
[/quote]

Honestly, there are plenty of nations they could fight. It's not really dead weight unless you're not willing to ever leverage it in a significant fashion. I can think of one alliance they really dislike that's very big, and would have plenty of nations in range but they're not willing to rock the boat to do it.

[Aeros]

[quote name='Roquentin' timestamp='1340035483' post='2987722']
Honestly, there are plenty of nations they could fight. It's not really dead weight unless you're not willing to ever leverage it in a significant fashion. I can think of one alliance they really dislike that's very big, and would have plenty of nations in range but they're not willing to rock the boat to do it.
[/quote]

Which brings everything full circle.

[Monster]

[quote name='Aeros' timestamp='1340035608' post='2987727']
Which brings everything full circle.
[/quote]

Yes, but lack of desire to do it due to risks inherent is the problem rather than any statistical impossibility.

[Ogaden]

[quote name='Feanor Noldorin' timestamp='1340034199' post='2987696']
I'll be honest, I wasn't sure how much it would lower their NS. Sucks for them I guess. If they can't get any action in this war I doubt they'll ever see any (if they continue to grow).
[/quote]
You could always attack them

[Feanor Noldorin]

[quote name='James Dahl' timestamp='1340035714' post='2987731']
You could always attack them
[/quote]
I could see how a TOP or PF vs Umbrella would be appealing but I can't see why that'd ever take place. There simply isn't any hostility there. I'm sure if you put us in a room together there would be bickering but nothing bad. Plus we have other things on our agenda.

[pd73bassman]

[quote name='Aeros' timestamp='1340035050' post='2987715']
Methinks the only solution is Umbrella disbanding. Being serious. They have, what, 40% of the entire games population above 100k NS? There is no way they will ever fight enough alliances where they could engage that many 100k NS nations. TBH all the power is just dead weight if it can't be used. Victims of their own success.
[/quote]


There are many targets that can be made available to us on our side of the war if it would ever escalate but we can't get to them because of that (yes I hate to say it) peace mode factor.



Umbrella is a paper tiger
Umbrella goes to war
Everyone goes to peace mode to avoid the paper tiger


The door swings both ways, we can't hit what we can't get to

[Yevgeni Luchenkov]

[quote name='Roquentin' timestamp='1340035483' post='2987722']
Honestly, there are plenty of nations they could fight. It's not really dead weight unless you're not willing to ever leverage it in a significant fashion. I can think of one alliance they really dislike that's very big, and would have plenty of nations in range but they're not willing to rock the boat to do it.
[/quote]
Like who?

Two "active" alliances got an upper tier that could, together, be problematic for Umbrella: TOP and Sparta. But let's say that the likelihood of those two collaborating is... low. If not, all of PF is still outmatched in the top tier by Umbrella, which doesn't matter because Argent is tied to Umbrella anyway.

The only other alliances who could annoy them are neutrals (WTF, GPA, TDO), Créole (most likely, if they ever decide to defend Fark) and OBR (unlikely, unless TOP changes its course radically and even then).

I think Umbrella is pretty safe, in short.

[IYIyTh]

[quote name='Feanor Noldorin' timestamp='1340037293' post='2987750']
I could see how a TOP or PF vs Umbrella would be appealing but I can't see why that'd ever take place. There simply isn't any hostility there. I'm sure if you put us in a room together there would be bickering but nothing bad. Plus we have other things on our agenda.
[/quote]

That and the fact that Umbrella would absolutely steamroll TOP...on paper...

Edited June 18, 2012 by IYIyTh

[Lusitan]

[quote name='IYIyTh' timestamp='1340042456' post='2987811']
That and the fact that Umbrella would absolutely steamroll TOP...on paper...
[/quote]

Not really, Cent is a cool guy

Edited June 18, 2012 by Lusitan

[Tromp]

[quote name='SoADarthCyfe6' timestamp='1340027705' post='2987615']
There's no FOK to protect you this time. About time this war escalated.
[/quote]

This is cute. Thanks for admitting what a cowards you guys were last war though. And apparently you haven't lost this trait. Good on you!

[Monster]

[quote name='Yevgeni Luchenkov' timestamp='1340038320' post='2987766']
Like who?

Two "active" alliances got an upper tier that could, together, be problematic for Umbrella: TOP and Sparta. But let's say that the likelihood of those two collaborating is... low. If not, all of PF is still outmatched in the top tier by Umbrella, which doesn't matter because Argent is tied to Umbrella anyway.

The only other alliances who could annoy them are neutrals (WTF, GPA, TDO), Créole (most likely, if they ever decide to defend Fark) and OBR (unlikely, unless TOP changes its course radically and even then).

I think Umbrella is pretty safe, in short.
[/quote]


I'm not referring to "problematic" in a purely statistical sense. There would be a great quantity of nations to attack and the antagonism exists between an alliance Umbrella has less NS than, but shares mutual allies with. They won't do anything about it because they are unwilling to take any political risks or any of any kind.

They would sustain some damage from fighting the alliance I'm referring to and the hostility has been pretty public. Like I said, however, Umbrella's trajectory is centered around smaller targets, be they XX/SF or a few alliances in a different corner that don't match up statistically at all. Path of least resistance, etc.

Have you looked at Sparta's nations? They don't really have as much as you're making out.

It should be obvious who I'm referring to. An alliance that has more NS than it.

[RuffRyders]

[quote name='Roquentin' timestamp='1340045976' post='2987853']
I'm not referring to "problematic" in a purely statistical sense. There would be a great quantity of nations to attack and the antagonism exists between an alliance Umbrella has less NS than, but shares mutual allies with. They won't do anything about it because they are unwilling to take any political risks or any of any kind.

They would sustain some damage from fighting the alliance I'm referring to and the hostility has been pretty public. Like I said, however, Umbrella's trajectory is centered around smaller targets, be they XX/SF or a few alliances in a different corner that don't match up statistically at all. Path of least resistance, etc.

Have you looked at Sparta's nations? They don't really have as much as you're making out.

It should be obvious who I'm referring to. An alliance that has more NS than it.
[/quote]

GPA? lol

NG is who your referring too... our top tier is pretty nice.

[lennybronx]

RnR

[Aeros]

I suppose rolling the neutrals would be a way for Umbrella to burn NS in a "Constructive" manner.

[scytale]

[quote name='Yevgeni Luchenkov' timestamp='1340038320' post='2987766']
Like who?

Two "active" alliances got an upper tier that could, together, be problematic for Umbrella: TOP and Sparta. But let's say that the likelihood of those two collaborating is... low. If not, all of PF is still outmatched in the top tier by Umbrella, which doesn't matter because Argent is tied to Umbrella anyway.

The only other alliances who could annoy them are neutrals (WTF, GPA, TDO), Créole (most likely, [b]if they ever decide to defend Fark[/b]) and OBR (unlikely, unless TOP changes its course radically and even then).

I think Umbrella is pretty safe, in short.
[/quote]
Defend us from what? Umb? They can't hit us and we can't hit them. This is a cold war. And if we ever get Umb targets, allies or not, we're not sharing. So there.

[AAAAAAAAAAGGGG]

[quote name='Feanor Noldorin' timestamp='1340033294' post='2987682']
Umbrella should get their very high end nations to sell all their infra to lower their individual NS. Once they are in decent NS range they should wreck everyone with their tech advantage. Doubt they'd do it though.
[/quote]

It's an interesting proposition. However, infrastructure does give a soldier bonus, and we'd never win any GAs since our infra would be so lopsided. That's a significant amount of damage we couldn't do.