King Xander the Only Posted April 21, 2012 Report Share Posted April 21, 2012 GOONS ruins everything. This is all your fault, Sardonic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sardonic Posted April 21, 2012 Report Share Posted April 21, 2012 [quote name='King Xander the Only' timestamp='1334982329' post='2956408'] GOONS ruins everything. This is all your fault, Sardonic. [/quote] It's true, my life is a lie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ameroca Posted April 21, 2012 Report Share Posted April 21, 2012 Young GOONS have picked them, every one. Oh, when will they ever learn? Oh, when will they, ever learn? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hereno Posted April 21, 2012 Report Share Posted April 21, 2012 As much as there probably are cases of people raiding "none" nations out of existence, those people are the ones who would have disbanded their nations a few weeks later anyway out of lack of interest, because all leading a nation means in this world is paying bills. I hate paying bills; why on bob would I sign up to pay some more of them and call it entertainment? [OOC]CyberNations: An Online Bill Simulation Game[OOC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starfox101 Posted April 21, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 21, 2012 Is it just me or do GOONS and co. make the same posts in response to every thread about them? Do you really think it's funny that many times? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sigrun Vapneir Posted April 21, 2012 Report Share Posted April 21, 2012 [quote name='Starfox101' timestamp='1334980166' post='2956389'] Those weren't entirely well known programs. Nor did they make much sense to me, even. [/quote] These sorts of programs essentially offer individual protectorates for nations that want to stay unaligned mini-micro-sovereignties, who are active enough to sell tech, and not interested in raiding. Ones like I mentioned in my previous post above. At least the one that I was intimately involved with at some point in the distant past did, and it is my vague impression the others are in the same vein. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ControlVolume Posted April 21, 2012 Report Share Posted April 21, 2012 (edited) e: OOC The game is dying because the game sucks by today's standards. It's sucked for quite some time now. While zynga might be rightfully decried for being nothing but a moneygrab, it brought to light the large playerbase willing to play browser games, and browser games have in turn advanced in complexity and enjoyment whereas this game has stagnated. The game has not brought anything interesting to the table in quite some time. admin's solution to high-level nations not having enough to do was to add wonders, where they can add a single click once a month. Wooooo! Even wars themselves are mechanically tedious at the upper levels, a simple waiting game while one side waits for the other side to run out of money over the course of a month. There is no skill, there is no strategy, and unless you're a leader or somehow politically involved, there is nothing to do except wait for a war to pop up to make things less dull. It's Progress Quest that can sometimes go in the opposite direction instead. oh also mandatory OOC tags are also pretty dumb and most people think roleplaying a ~glorious leader~ is weird so that probably hurts OWF discussion /OOC Edited April 21, 2012 by ControlVolume Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canik Posted April 21, 2012 Report Share Posted April 21, 2012 Are we still at 14k nations? Seems we've been holding around that range for at least 3-4 months now. I do believe the decline has slowed down as of late. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sardonic Posted April 21, 2012 Report Share Posted April 21, 2012 [quote name='Starfox101' timestamp='1334983125' post='2956416'] Is it just me or do GOONS and co. make the same posts in response to every thread about them? Do you really think it's funny that many times? [/quote] So you admit this thread is about us then? Good of you to come out and say it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
New Frontier Posted April 21, 2012 Report Share Posted April 21, 2012 [quote name='Starfox101' timestamp='1334983125' post='2956416'] Is it just me or do GOONS and co. make the same posts in response to every thread about them? Do you really think it's funny that many times? [/quote] Is it not possible that it remains a fair point? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starfox101 Posted April 21, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 21, 2012 [quote name='Sardonic' timestamp='1334983297' post='2956422'] So you admit this thread is about us then? Good of you to come out and say it. [/quote] Considering a majority of the replies have come from you guys, I guess that's the way it's leaning. You were mentioned once. Calm down. You got your attention. Don't worry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krihelion Posted April 21, 2012 Report Share Posted April 21, 2012 raiding is fun yo, if you cant handle getting pummeled then join an alliance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ControlVolume Posted April 21, 2012 Report Share Posted April 21, 2012 [quote name='Starfox101' timestamp='1334983473' post='2956424'] Considering a majority of the replies have come from you guys, I guess that's the way it's leaning. You were mentioned once. Calm down. You got your attention. Don't worry. [/quote] i did a search and you actually mentioned us four times! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
New Frontier Posted April 21, 2012 Report Share Posted April 21, 2012 [quote name='Starfox101' timestamp='1334983473' post='2956424'] Considering a majority of the replies have come from you guys, I guess that's the way it's leaning. You were mentioned once. Calm down. You got your attention. Don't worry. [/quote] without going back to check, I'm pretty sure they were mentioned repeatedly and were the only alliance mentioned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starfox101 Posted April 21, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 21, 2012 [quote name='New Frontier' timestamp='1334983864' post='2956429'] without going back to check, I'm pretty sure they were mentioned repeatedly and were the only alliance mentioned. [/quote] I mentioned the old \m/ when comparing them to GOONS. Hence, the reason GOONS was the only alliance mentioned besides them. They are essentially the forefront of all raiding alliances in CN's history. However, this thread was not about GOONS solely, as I'll continually state. Even if it were, what does it change? The point I made about raiding stands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ControlVolume Posted April 21, 2012 Report Share Posted April 21, 2012 are goalposts heavy? i have never tried moving them around, they seem pretty big! you must be a pretty strong guy starfox101! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starfox101 Posted April 21, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 21, 2012 [quote name='ControlVolume' timestamp='1334984190' post='2956433'] are goalposts heavy? i have never tried moving them around, they seem pretty big! you must be a pretty strong guy starfox101! [/quote] I do like to hit the gym occasionally. It's a pretty cool place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phineas Posted April 21, 2012 Report Share Posted April 21, 2012 (edited) A lot of good observations in the OP. However, is it possible that raiding is just a symptom, or another side of the same coin? Explanation: I find the alliance system, as most currently view it, holds far more responsibility to why leaders choose to abandon their nations. [i]Most[/i] alliances, as currently conceived (those with forum participation & irc requirements, etc) simply are far too demanding of most leaders' time and energy. Further, once a leader joins an alliance, bonds with other members develop, which means leaders start thinking of their nations as extensions of their []ooc[]ooc[/]ooc[/] friendships and not for the politics of this "world." That, in my opinion, is the biggest threat to interesting politics and an explanation for the present state of this world's population of nation leaders. Rounding this out, my experience is that those who openly boast that they are not taking this world seriously are some of the worst offenders. Those who refuse to admit that they are nation leaders but something else here fool only themselves. What this kind of thinking leads to is people become too afraid to take chances because they think running their nation is not as worthwhile as being here for "whatever else it is they are here for" and the result is this ceases to be an interesting place. Summation: The alternative to being unaligned and getting raided is to join an alliance. My opinion is that while I am not a fan of raiding, alliance membership leads to nation leader burn-out and evacuation far more than being raided does. Edited April 21, 2012 by Phineas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kzoppistan Posted April 21, 2012 Report Share Posted April 21, 2012 (edited) Some people only understand force. If Starfox's assertions are true, then the only course forward is to forge a collaborative effort between alliances worthy enough to hold the welfare of the innocent and defenseless in equal degree of that of their own members, [i]a union of noble spirit[/i], that will establish a rule of law and prosperity for those that wish to find shelter from the cruelties visited up them by avaricious savages. The first step of this union after the completion of establishment, is nothing short of claiming total dominance and protection over a sphere of color. In that way those who wish to grow in peace can find it, unhindered by no other obligation other than to do no harm unto others. In respects to those of no poor opinion or cause against the alliances involved, a cordial and respectful tolerance towards their ways must be the theme of the day. But for those that wish to threaten the inhabitants of this sphere... This protection will be absolute and unyielding to the whims of the wicked. It must collectively bring the hammer of light down upon those who wish to test its resolve and it must actively campaign to cripple any conspiracy against it. [i]And even should the entire world rise against it in jealously or ignorant contempt, [b]it will remain resolute until the world is set upon a new order[/b].[/i] [size="3"][b]And With A Thousand Thunderclaps, I Say So Mote It Be![/b][/size] Edited April 21, 2012 by Kzoppistan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChairmanHal Posted April 21, 2012 Report Share Posted April 21, 2012 [quote name='Sardonic' timestamp='1334981366' post='2956398'] You can't seriously be placing the decline in nations, something that had been going on for years prior to our re-founding, on us? There is no proof beyond anticdotal evidence that tech raiding has caused this decline, it existed in the heyday, and it exists now, it is a constant. OOC: It's the lack of new features/graphics/etc. It needs a makeover like ogame had. [/quote] Tech raiding has been constant, the standards for what constitutes a valid tech raiding target have not been. If you go back and look at alliance charters from 2007-8, you find that the definition of an "alliance" consisted of fewer nations, raiding rules were stricter, and so on. That's not "anecdotal evidence", it's just a plain fact. Now, part of the reason the standards for raiding changed has nothing to do with GOONS. Smaller number of nations means fewer raid targets. Since the raiding alliances weren't about to curtail raiding simply because of this fact (no raiding = boring), instead they maintained the size of the pool of raidable nations by changing their charters. Now instead of 5 nations constituting an "alliance", it was 10...then 15...then 20. What's different about alliances like GOONS (and Athens before it) is that the raiding is essentially state-sponsored. The weight of the alliance is behind every target you pick. So long as you follow the minimal guidelines provided, there are no bad targets, no worries about what happens if a nation you are raiding turns out to be a better fighter than you anticipated or has friends willing to aid them and force you into a position of paying reps. Your alliance will simply keep sending reinforcements until all resistance is overwhelmed. This is a major change to the way raiding was conducted 5 years ago. We have reached a point where raiding needs to dwindle back down to a level that is no longer has a serious impact on small alliances. "Well they should have known they needed to get a protectorate" no longer flies. [i]OOC: I agree with you 100% that an ogame style makeover would be very helpful to CN. The design of the interface is a bit dated and could really use a facelift. [/i] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hydian Way Posted April 21, 2012 Report Share Posted April 21, 2012 Regarding the barren wasteland comments and the general concept that a decline is a bad thing, I have to disagree. I knew a fellow ruler, who has since departed Bob, that had the brilliant idea of recruiting raid victims. An idea of course many people have had. What he found was that when he contacted unaligned raid victims and offered to see if he could get them peace and some tech deals to rebuild, he was frequently rebuffed. It seemed the two most common response where "If you get me peace of course I'll join your alliance" and "If you provide me military support (read: counter attack the raiders) I'll consider joining." Nations from the first group often though turned out to be only using their pledge of fealty as a means to buy peace. A week or two later they'd jump the AA and take their tech deal money with them. Nations from the latter group would become more and more truculent as it was explained to them "No we can't counter attack \m/ | FAN | Shooving | etc". Eventually they'd respond with some form of rant along the lines of "What good are you! I want to win and be the most powerful nation in the world, not a brokered peace settlement". Concepts such as "They have 600 members and a massive MDP web backing them!" where concepts those nations could not understand or chose not to understand. While this is anecdotal, I also only ever hear anecdotes from the other side. I've never seen some host of pure nations who were all innocent raid victims and wanted nothing more than to cooperate with us but were brutally mauled by the raiders. I find the unaligned and underaligned to host a variety of personality types, many of which contribute nothing to Bob. I remain against raiding, but I also don't believe it is turning Bob into a barren wasteland. Our best and brightest aren't being run off. Personally when I'm feeling extra moralist I shoot a simple info PM to nations who are being tech raided. Explaining why it is happening (they're here for the land, money, and tech), that it likely will happen again, and some options to avoid it happening again. I reference the wiki, neutral alliances, and some quality mass member alliances they can consider. Also a little blurb on how rebuilding is easily funded with tech deals. From perhaps 15% of those I message, I get a simple thank you. From some subset of those, people actually take actions to avoid future raids and rebuild. Most of them read it, discard it, and go about their lives. Such is their choice. I wish them well, but I will not miss them when they depart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lebubu Posted April 21, 2012 Report Share Posted April 21, 2012 (edited) Ah, yes, it is our duty to compensate for the indifference of this world's creator by giving up on the few practices that still offer enjoyment in this horrible place and pretending that tech raiding is some sort of recent phenomenon that is chasing young rulers away from this extremely well designed planet- e: dumb sentence Edited April 21, 2012 by lebubu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ch33kY Posted April 21, 2012 Report Share Posted April 21, 2012 I can't imagine why people aren't joining Cybernations and lots of people are leaving when there are all these really awesome game updates. I'm still getting used to the most recent game updates, like wonders and navy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prodigal Moon Posted April 21, 2012 Report Share Posted April 21, 2012 I have to agree with lebubu. This world could be just as intriguing with 1000 nations if more alliances had some ambition, principles, or willingness to rock the boat. There is little incentive to bring new life into this world and, yea, little incentive to remain tied to this world except to justify previous commitment. (OOC: One the of the main thing that keeps me playing is the fact that I've already invested 5+ years into this game, so it would be pretty lame to throw that away when the upkeep required to remain playing is so low. But I would have a really hard time making a pitch to someone who's never played before.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alterego Posted April 21, 2012 Report Share Posted April 21, 2012 Back in the day people (todays hegemony) blamed the (then) hegemony. So everyone is leaving because of todays hegemony of PB & Out House. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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