Jorost Posted April 16, 2012 Report Share Posted April 16, 2012 [quote name='Roquentin' timestamp='1334548595' post='2954047'] The issue is, other allies of NPO built independent spheres of influence (DR), (Citadel), (SF), (BLEU). Invicta didn't. [/quote] Don't think I didn't try. I failed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monster Posted April 16, 2012 Report Share Posted April 16, 2012 (edited) [quote name='Jorost' timestamp='1334549462' post='2954073'] Don't think I didn't try. I failed. [/quote] At least you tried then. Let's look at it from another angle. NPO signs MDP with MK. GOONS goes down. NPO systematically isolates MK. Did anything about MK change in the interval? There is a reason DH-NPO is called Fall Vergeltung in NoR. related: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ktbF2Zr5roc Keep in mind these criticisms are limited to the historical NPO and not NPO under Brehon. Edited April 16, 2012 by Roquentin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beauty Posted April 17, 2012 Report Share Posted April 17, 2012 [quote name='Quiziotle' timestamp='1334467582' post='2953638'] remember when you were trying to join MK like three months ago [/quote] What does that have to do with an NPO/Invicta cancellation? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jgoods45 Posted April 17, 2012 Report Share Posted April 17, 2012 [quote name='Rotavele' timestamp='1334650592' post='2954754'] What does that have to do with an NPO/Invicta cancellation? [/quote] Because you said the NPO turned it's back on the rest of the world to "roll around in the dirt with MK and Co" despite the fact that you tried to join MK a few months ago to do just that. umm... Best wishes to NPO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blacky Posted April 17, 2012 Report Share Posted April 17, 2012 A small alliance can cast a big shadow. However in Invicta's case, it was a small alliance in the shadow of a big alliance. Carry on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seipher Caim Posted April 17, 2012 Report Share Posted April 17, 2012 [quote name='Jorost' timestamp='1334545834' post='2954037'] [i](Great Words)[/i] [/quote] Classy as always Jorost ! You may not have made some good choices at times but that was your call and at least you took decisions, not easy ones and I respect that and enjoyed working with you during your tenure ! I hope you're fine in your golden rocking chair in RI, enjoying telling old story to the newcomers See you soon ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buds The Man Posted April 17, 2012 Report Share Posted April 17, 2012 [quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1334549271' post='2954069'] They built those spheres after abandoning NPO like rats or during the Pax Pacifica as little more than extensions of NPO's power. Every sphere has to have more than one alliance in it, and they can't all be egalitarian utopias; there are leaders and there are constituents. All military treaties are about security! Invicta's relationship with NPO is no different than VE's relationship to GOD and GOONS. Invicta stayed exactly where Invicta wanted to be, the idea that in the case of Invicta having treaties for defense is spinelessness but in the case of Valhalla it's political masterminding is silly. In fact, in keeping a treaty despite the threats, Invicta displayed exactly the sort of altruistic characteristics that were so lacking in the "Coaltion of Cowards." [/quote] You know schatt for being a relatively smart guy sometimes I just cant believe the drivel that comes out of your mouth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluffyewunga Posted April 17, 2012 Report Share Posted April 17, 2012 (edited) Forget it Edited April 17, 2012 by fluffyewunga Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scorponok Posted April 17, 2012 Report Share Posted April 17, 2012 [quote name='Jorost' timestamp='1334545834' post='2954037'] Yeah, the name change was the single worst decision I ever made. Look, I need to say something here. It sounds to me like the hatred was not directed at the individual members of Invicta, but at the alliance itself, the decisions it made, the paths it took. If that's the case, then your beef is with me, and me alone. As the longest-serving leader of Invicta I was an absolute dictator, my word was law and my whims were... well, not always the best idea. I mean "Regnum Invictorum?" What the [Invictan expletive] was I [i]thinking[/i]?! You say that Invicta did nothing but massage NPO's feet. That's a new one, I hadn't heard that one. "Lapdog" and "meatshield" are the old standbys. I get how people would think that. But look at it from my point of view: Our relationship with NPO gave us a degree of influence that we could not otherwise have enjoyed based on our size and strength. We were -- we [i]are[/i] -- a very small fish. There was no formal ceding of sovereignty, not at all. But it would be fair to describe NPO as a kind of patron. If we were not technically a vassal, we were certainly keenly aware of NPO's geopolitical positions and goals, and made our own decisions accordingly. This is not, in my opinion, an unusual way for a (very) junior partner in a partnership to act. And let's face it, at that time it was a pretty bipolar World of Bob. You picked a side and you stuck with it. Not many chose a third path. But yes, like I said, I get the lapdog thing. But don't blame the alliance, blame me. Anything you dislike about Invicta from my time (1/19/09-1/19/11) is my singular responsibility. Anything from after that may still be the result of the culture that I created. None of the current gov't were in power when my reign began; some were not even members. Blame me. I did it. In many cases you may be right. I was a [i]terrible[/i] leader! I ruined Invicta, and lest anyone ever think that doesn't weigh on me: Think again. I often wonder what things might be like had I chosen differently, but we will never know. I no longer hold anything but ceremonial positions in Invicta. More than a year has passed since I have been actively engaged in the affairs of government, and in that time, our path and NPO's have diverged. This saddens me, but this too shall pass. If people still have grudges against what Invicta was, by all means take them up with me. Otherwise let's just shake hands and go on our separate ways. [/quote] Seriously we need more posts like this on the OWF. A very honest and humble post Jorost. I salute you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thrash Posted April 17, 2012 Report Share Posted April 17, 2012 [quote name='fluffyewunga' timestamp='1334689765' post='2954916'] Forget it [/quote] I can only imagine what you said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buds The Man Posted April 18, 2012 Report Share Posted April 18, 2012 well she quoted me I wish i could see what she wrote im sure it would have been thrilling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernkastel Posted April 18, 2012 Report Share Posted April 18, 2012 Congratulations to our allies in Invicta! >:3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
President Gunn Posted April 18, 2012 Report Share Posted April 18, 2012 (edited) [quote name='fluffyewunga' timestamp='1334689765' post='2954916'] Forget it [/quote] Thanks for the support Cora [quote name='Bernkastel' timestamp='1334716715' post='2955126'] Congratulations to our allies in Invicta! >:3 [/quote] Thanks Bern Edited April 18, 2012 by President Gunn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m3g4tr0n Posted April 18, 2012 Report Share Posted April 18, 2012 [quote name='NoMercy' timestamp='1334388553' post='2952929'] Considering what they have swallowed for you, the losing wars (partly with pathetic reasons on your part), the PR hits - "lapdog" etc. that's a pretty retarded reason. [/quote] That pretty much sums it up. I've watched Invicta take more than a few bullets for Pacifica. You'd think they could at least have taken [i]one[/i] for us with the CSN PIAT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Proxator Posted April 18, 2012 Report Share Posted April 18, 2012 Wow! Was not expecting this to happen! Best of luck to you Invicta! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schattenmann Posted April 18, 2012 Report Share Posted April 18, 2012 I think if there's one thing to carry away from this it's that for the love of God, funny treaty titles are not funny. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChairmanHal Posted April 18, 2012 Report Share Posted April 18, 2012 [quote name='Buds The Man' timestamp='1334707278' post='2955038'] well she quoted me I wish i could see what she wrote im sure it would have been thrilling. [/quote] Mostly because your words carry weight that would break an ordinary man's spine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamthey Posted April 18, 2012 Report Share Posted April 18, 2012 (edited) [quote name='Methrage' timestamp='1334389247' post='2952944'] So how many wars have Invicta fought for you guys and how many have NPO fought for Invicta due to this treaty? Seems this treaty served NPO well in the past, but I suppose with the new allies you guys are going for its best to get rid of the old. [/quote] [quote name='NoMercy' timestamp='1334389329' post='2952945'] heh. I am a Member of TSO - so what? I am concerned because we in TSO - as the people in NSO - don't believe in dropping allies when tough times seems to end (which is the case for NPO) and bills don't seem to be equated. I am sure NSO Members will also appreciate that we judge actions not alliances. I know that's uncommon. Also that NPO still tries to dictate other people's treaties is hilarious. [/quote] A treaty is the material expression of a relationship existing between the elite of two alliances. While the alliance name and the parties to the treaty remains nominally the same the people behind the treaty who agreed to it, lived with it, and cooperated together to make the relationship successful, do change through the process of retirement and succession. A lot has changed on both sides, there have been several different emperors, almost a full staff change over in NPO, and I am sure many similar shifts in invicta- so perhaps the magic simply was not there anymore, either way who are either of you to judge. No alliance lasts forever and most established alliances have had at least one cancellation in their time- so really, heckling when two groups part ways is not just unrealistic, it is hypocrisy at its finest. Edited April 18, 2012 by iamthey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feanor Noldorin Posted April 18, 2012 Report Share Posted April 18, 2012 Not really sure why people are throwing a fit over this. Good luck to both of you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smurthwaite Posted April 18, 2012 Report Share Posted April 18, 2012 [quote name='Feanor Noldorin' timestamp='1334786593' post='2955463'] Not really sure why people are throwing a fit over this. Good luck to both of you. [/quote] I agree. I hope you both enjoy where ever it is you find yourself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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