A Brief Announcement from Umbrella

[Ernesto Che Guevara]

The fact is, it's pretty commonly known that interfering with a war or a raid will result in consequences for those involved. If a member of Europa aided a nation being raided by GOONS, despite the fact that we're allies, we'd cough up 18 mil. Why? It's not because GOONS is bullying us, but because that's how it works. I read the mercy board offering. It was the absolute worst attempt I have ever read there. One of the mercy board rules states that your submission must be accepted. Had Mongols actually tried, it would have been accepted. I've seen some awful crap get approved (much to my disapproval), but you've gotta draw a line somewhere.

[Unknown Smurf]

[quote name='Ernesto Che Guevara' timestamp='1333478096' post='2947915']
The fact is, it's pretty commonly known that interfering with a war or a raid will result in consequences for those involved. If a member of Europa aided a nation being raided by GOONS, despite the fact that we're allies, we'd cough up 18 mil. Why? It's not because GOONS is bullying us, but because that's how it works. I read the mercy board offering. It was the absolute worst attempt I have ever read there. One of the mercy board rules states that your submission must be accepted. Had Mongols actually tried, it would have been accepted. I've seen some awful crap get approved (much to my disapproval), but you've gotta draw a line somewhere.
[/quote]

The fact is that worse submissions are accepted, as you alluded to, because those alliances were better connected. Ipso facto, GOONS was picking on mongols because they [s]weren't well connected[/s] were weak, aka bulling.

Edited April 3, 2012 by Unknown Smurf

[flak attack]

[quote name='Unknown Smurf' timestamp='1333479999' post='2947930']
The fact is that worse submissions are accepted, as you alluded to, because those alliances were better connected. Ipso facto, GOONS was picking on mongols because they [s]weren't well connected[/s] were weak, aka bulling.
[/quote]
Way to misread his post. He flat out said that was the worst submission he's ever seen. He said some terrible ones have been accepted, but that it was the worst ever. That's not bullying. That's having a standard.

[Leet Guy]

[quote name='flak attack' timestamp='1333480183' post='2947934']
Way to misread his post. He flat out said that was the worst submission he's ever seen. He said some terrible ones have been accepted, but that it was the worst ever. That's not bullying. That's having a standard.
[/quote]

UnkownSmurf has already admitted here to intentionally misreading and misinterpreting posts, so this is really par for the course at this point.

[Unknown Smurf]

I don't know how to read.

[Ernesto Che Guevara]

[quote name='Unknown Smurf' timestamp='1333479999' post='2947930']
The fact is that worse submissions are accepted, as you alluded to, because those alliances were better connected. Ipso facto, GOONS was picking on mongols because they [s]weren't well connected[/s] were weak, aka bulling.
[/quote]

There's a fine line between being hilarious and bad and being intentionally moronic. I'll admit, the idea of his story written on the mercy boards was rather amusing, and it would have been good, but it was too insulting and relied too heavily on personal attacks. We all know those are fantastic, but they should have been anti-Sardonic attacks. I can guarantee a written attack on him in the form of a mercy board post would have been amusing to most of GOONS and probably accepted.

[Ogaden]

[quote name='flak attack' timestamp='1333480183' post='2947934']
Way to misread his post. He flat out said that was the worst submission he's ever seen. He said some terrible ones have been accepted, but that it was the worst ever. That's not bullying. That's having a standard.
[/quote]

[quote name='Leet Guy' timestamp='1333480709' post='2947938']
UnkownSmurf has already admitted here to intentionally misreading and misinterpreting posts, so this is really par for the course at this point.
[/quote]
Invents own arbitrary standard, says other people at fault for not adhering to it

Edited April 3, 2012 by James Dahl

[Umar ibn Abd al-Aziz]

[quote name='Unknown Smurf' timestamp='1333466230' post='2947846']
Kaskus was just under 580k after I joined... I added ~70k for the NEW guys.
[/quote]
The NEW guys were 50k, 67k, 80k and 102k NS when they joined Kaskus.

E:
[quote name='Swatch0' timestamp='1333463535' post='2947831']
You really think so?
[/quote]
Yeah, I do. War is the crucible upon which communities are forged here, they either break or become strong. It's true for your alliance and for mine.

Edited April 3, 2012 by Umar ibn Abd al-Aziz

[Ardus]

[quote name='Sardonic' timestamp='1333455242' post='2947793']
Gunboat diplomacy would be forcing you to do tech deals with us and our allies at 50/3 for a time of our choosing. Paying a mere 18m is by comparison quite light.

Your people made the wrong call, but you can end this war any time you want. Accept our offer or make an acceptable new one, and move on.
[/quote]
I'm not so sure. Tech deals at that rate? Might as well pay them reps.

[Groucho Marx]

3/150 would be more preferable.

[mattski133]

[quote name='Thrash' timestamp='1333456244' post='2947796']
We don't allow raiding, so yea if someone did that they'd be on their own.
[/quote]

my bad. i think Hal mentioned it, so I suppose it was Valhalla. not that it really means anything.

[Phineas]

[quote name='Ernesto Che Guevara' timestamp='1333487588' post='2947984']
I'll admit, the idea of his story written on the mercy boards was rather amusing, and it would have been good, but it was too insulting and relied too heavily on personal attacks. We all know those are fantastic, but they should have been anti-Sardonic attacks. I can guarantee a written attack on him in the form of a mercy board post would have been amusing to most of GOONS and probably accepted.
[/quote]

It's nice to see you agreeing that most GOONS, with the occasional exception of Sardonic, suffer from a serious case of thin-skin syndrome.

[Sephiroth]

[quote name='Ernesto Che Guevara' timestamp='1333478096' post='2947915']
The fact is, it's pretty commonly known that interfering with a war or a raid will result in consequences for those involved. If a member of Europa aided a nation being raided by GOONS, despite the fact that we're allies, we'd cough up 18 mil. Why? It's not because GOONS is bullying us, but because that's how it works.
[/quote]
Maybe that's how it works for a weak willed alliance such as Europa, but for most it doesn't work that way.

Edited April 4, 2012 by Methrage

[Ernesto Che Guevara]

[quote name='Methrage' timestamp='1333503507' post='2948069']
Maybe that's how it works for a weak willed alliance such as Europa, but for most it doesn't work that way.
[/quote]

Weak willed is not the same as wise. Any alliance would cough up reps if they were in the wrong. Just sayin'.

[Umar ibn Abd al-Aziz]

[quote name='Methrage' timestamp='1333503507' post='2948069']
Maybe that's how it works for a weak willed alliance such as Europa, but for most it doesn't work that way.
[/quote]
Ha, that's hilarious coming from you. How much have we been paid as a result of your actions? I know it's at least a couple hundred mil or equivalent thereof.

[Aeros]

[quote name='Ernesto Che Guevara' timestamp='1333503836' post='2948073']
Weak willed is not the same as wise. Any alliance would cough up reps if they were in the wrong. Just sayin'.
[/quote]

No they would not. Especially if there was little love between the alliance demanding reps and the one demanded of. Its precisely for this reason that most alliances that allow raiding don't go making demands because a Raid does not go entirely according to plan. It exposes you to unfortunate circumstances.

I am understanding the principle GOONS is defending here. They extend the alliance protection umbrella over their raiders in all cases. Which is fine. I am merely pointing out that this is a terribly bad idea. Raiding carries risks. If you put the full weight of an alliances AA behind a raid, then by definition you implicate your entire alliance in that raid. This was fine and dandy since it was only Mongols who decided to react. But what if it had been someone else with much more firepower? If your raider makes a mistake in who he targets, then you have handed a severe casus belli. What if the aggrieved alliance demanded reparations from GOONS? Would they pay? Everything I have seen in these threads says no. So what then? Its easy to start wars over principles when its micros. Not when its great powers.

Edited April 4, 2012 by Aeros

[Stewie]

Maybe you guys should hit GOONs in defense of Kaskus and Mongols then Aeros

[Groucho Marx]

Oh I would love that. Please.

[Aeros]

[quote name='Stewie' timestamp='1333505105' post='2948079']
Maybe you guys should hit GOONs in defense of Kaskus and Mongols then Aeros
[/quote]

Ha, I don't have that kind of authority. I am merely amusing myself arguing policy here. What else is there to do? Lord knows it'll be months before there is another war for me to devote my energies too.

[mattski133]

[quote name='Phineas' timestamp='1333503061' post='2948066']
It's nice to see you agreeing that most GOONS, with the occasional exception of Sardonic, suffer from a serious case of thin-skin syndrome.
[/quote]

i think you read into that too much. most of us just like watching him get nuked and publically roasted.

[quote name='Aeros' timestamp='1333504718' post='2948076']
No they would not. Especially if there was little love between the alliance demanding reps and the one demanded of. Its precisely for this reason that most alliances that allow raiding don't go making demands because a Raid does not go entirely according to plan. It exposes you to unfortunate circumstances.

I am understanding the principle GOONS is defending here. They extend the alliance protection umbrella over their raiders in all cases. Which is fine. I am merely pointing out that this is a terribly bad idea. Raiding carries risks. If you put the full weight of an alliances AA behind a raid, then by definition you implicate your entire alliance in that raid. This was fine and dandy since it was only Mongols who decided to react. But what if it had been someone else with much more firepower? If your raider makes a mistake in who he targets, then you have handed a severe casus belli. What if the aggrieved alliance demanded reparations from GOONS? Would they pay? Everything I have seen in these threads says no. So what then? Its easy to start wars over principles when its micros. Not when its great powers.
[/quote]

typically amongst larger, more established alliances there exists a level of diplomatic policy above "hold my beer and watch this".

[Buds The Man]

[quote name='Stewie' timestamp='1333505105' post='2948079']
Maybe you guys should hit GOONs in defense of Kaskus and Mongols then Aeros
[/quote]
Why GOONs is simply following their policy. Its a reach as far as im concerned as a raider takes on his own responsibility this war is more out of boredom than true political reasons. We have no dog in this hunt either way. Hope all are having fun.

[quote name='Emperor Marx' timestamp='1333505159' post='2948080']
Oh I would love that. Please.
[/quote]
You still bitter about something Marx if you got issues work it out, you know where to find me.

Edited April 4, 2012 by Buds The Man

[Groucho Marx]

[quote name='Buds The Man' timestamp='1333506971' post='2948090']

You still bitter about something Marx if you got issues work it out, you know where to find me.
[/quote]

What would I have to be bitter about?

[flak attack]

[quote name='James Dahl' timestamp='1333488565' post='2947989']
Invents own arbitrary standard, says other people at fault for not adhering to it
[/quote]
If you play my game, I expect you to hold to my standards. As long as the standards are the same across the board, I think that's reasonable enough.

[Buds The Man]

[quote name='Emperor Marx' timestamp='1333509192' post='2948107']
What would I have to be bitter about?
[/quote]
Thats a good question, I will follow it up with why you want a piece of Valhalla so bad that you would love it if we joined in.

[Courland]

[quote name='Sardonic' timestamp='1333455242' post='2947793']
Gunboat diplomacy would be forcing you to do tech deals with us and our allies at 50/3 for a time of our choosing. Paying a mere 18m is by comparison quite light.

Your people made the wrong call, but you can end this war any time you want. Accept our offer or make an acceptable new one, and move on.
[/quote]

Sardonic, you've been a fun opponent to trade nukes with. However, you have to understand that you can't force anyone to do anything when they have decided fighting to the death is a better alternative. You can either destroy them or move on yourself.

As for ending the war, your alliance can also end it any time you want. You've blown a lot of dong (haha.thks) knocking us all down to subsistence level. It's definitely within your power to destroy us, but it's going to take an inordinate amount of money to grind us out of existence. Is the fun still worth it? If so, by all means, swing your dong around and use it to crush us. Otherwise, just declare victory and move on.