A Brief Announcement from Umbrella

[Lurunin]

[quote name='Umar ibn Abd al-Aziz' timestamp='1333411048' post='2947507']
You should add yourself and the 4 or so ex-NEW nations who joined in, added ~250-280k ns to Kaskus
[/quote]

still wouldnt total up to 1mil

[Lurunin]

[quote name='mattski133' timestamp='1333412791' post='2947524']
well i believe a few have already surfaced (was it...Invicta?) that would leave the raiding nations to deal with the nation they are fighting even if that nation is getting aided by a third party.

you can just as easily abandon the nation that sent the aid if you are an alliance, that happens sometimes, you just boot them out rather than pay anyone any reperations. seen that plenty of times.

in this case, the nations sending the aid were condoned by MONGOLS government (though i use that term loosely) so the second option wasn't really there. i sincerely doubt anyone in Doomhouse would take the first option, which leaves-

Option A: pay us, apologize, and/[b]or do a mercy board term[/b]
Option B: get nuked on an alliance-wide scale.

it's usually done quietly and nothing more comes of it.
[/quote]

Mongols did the latter of option A and then were still attacked. if all you had wanted was for them to complete a mercy board term as to avoid war why not allow them to correct the term given to them (that was alrdy given to them as a term set by a GOON designed to be impossible to complete)

[Sigrun Vapneir]

[quote name='Aeros' timestamp='1333229265' post='2946327']
Its not just them who have taken more then 18 Million in damages. I would bet my entire pile of tech (such as it is) that had this tech trade been done by a major alliance like NPO, GATO, VE, etc, you would not have demanded reps. You would have demanded an Apology. And I seriously doubt that apology would have meant forcing the leaders of those alliances to post one of those ridiculous mercy board responses. They would have told you to go jump off a cliff and dared you to blow up the treaty web. If they were nice, they may have gone so far as to offer 3 million in reparations to cover what was sent for the tech trade. Maybe.

Fact is, you guys started this war over a tech trade to a nation you attacked first. And the only reason you did so was because you thought these micros would have just caved like every micro before them. Yet here we all are, 1 month later, the nukes are still flying, and you guys are trying to act like the aggrieved party.
[/quote]

QFT.

It's a matter of misreading opponents. They can talk all day about how easy it is to pay reps but who is making the argument weakens its force. Kaskus is not an 'innocent' micro started by new people who dont realise how stuff works, that was going to collapse under fire. It's a collection of people who are tough and proud and strong and care more about the fact that they are right than the fact that they are outnumbered. It may not make economic sense, but not everyone cares.

[mattski133]

[quote name='Aeros' timestamp='1333413473' post='2947535']
Ah, I was misunderstanding, I thought you were referring to the person who helped the target, not the raider. Raiding is a different beast. In my view, a raider is on his own up until the point he is faced with annihilation. So I suppose my thought process is that your raiders must be very bad at war if 3 million dongs and 2,000 soldiers is enough the give the target of 3 raiding nations a significant advantage.
[/quote]

if we let one go, or in this case, three or four before they were hastily recalled, it sets bad precendent. i don't want this to be mistaken for crying or bawwwing but people like to mess with us because of who we are, and it's necessary for them to understand what lengths we will go through to protect our members and policies.

for better or worse.

[quote name='Lurunin' timestamp='1333413869' post='2947538']
Mongols did the latter of option A and then were still attacked. if all you had wanted was for them to complete a mercy board term as to avoid war why not allow them to correct the term given to them (that was alrdy given to them as a term set by a GOON designed to be impossible to complete)
[/quote]

if it had been me doing the term i'd have taken five minutes to see what a successful term looks like, i mean, there is a hall of fame to view, and perhaps taken some time to put together something that made sense and did not insult every person in GOONS. taking your pants off and peeing on the carpet a mercy board does not fulfill.

[Umar ibn Abd al-Aziz]

[quote name='Lurunin' timestamp='1333413697' post='2947536']
still wouldnt total up to 1mil
[/quote]
I'm pretty !@#$%* at maths but isn't 650k + 350k + 250-280k > 1 mil?

E: [quote name='Swatch0' timestamp='1333413033' post='2947527']
I still stand, so does Kaskus alongside Mongols...
[/quote]
You're on life support. When you come outta peace mode, you'll be helping us by providing good target practice/war experience for our low tier nations. I suppose a thank you is in order

Edited April 3, 2012 by Umar ibn Abd al-Aziz

[Lurunin]

[quote name='Umar ibn Abd al-Aziz' timestamp='1333416150' post='2947556']
I'm pretty !@#$%* at maths but isn't 650k + 350k + 250-280k > 1 mil?

E:
You're on life support. When you come outta peace mode, you'll be helping us by providing good target practice/war experience for our low tier nations. I suppose a thank you is in order
[/quote]

hm seems that i missed that somewhere in that post were the words "combined"

i'll admit fault in that one, i thought it had read that they were 1mil each which would mean that they wouldnt be considered a micro alliance

[Groucho Marx]

I do not know why we're bothering to explain how diplomacy works and why to mirco alliance leaders and members.

[Aeros]

[quote name='Emperor Marx' timestamp='1333417706' post='2947575']
I do not know why we're bothering to explain how diplomacy works and why to mirco alliance leaders and members.
[/quote]

Implying Kaskus somehow does not understand how Bob works simply by the nature that they have less then 20 members. I've fought Kaskus before, or at least, one of their leading members before there was a Kaskus. I even posted those details on my Wiki page as a badge of honor. Ask anyone who has tangled with these guys and they would tell you not to underestimate them. GOONS chose to jump on this hand grenade. And make no mistake, it was their choice. I don't even know why we are having this argument anymore.

[Groucho Marx]

[quote name='Aeros' timestamp='1333418835' post='2947590']
words
[/quote]

Implying I'm only talking about Kaskus.

[mattski133]

[quote name='Aeros' timestamp='1333418835' post='2947590']
Implying Kaskus somehow does not understand how Bob works simply by the nature that they have less then 20 members. I've fought Kaskus before, or at least, one of their leading members before there was a Kaskus. I even posted those details on my Wiki page as a badge of honor. Ask anyone who has tangled with these guys and they would tell you not to underestimate them. GOONS chose to jump on this hand grenade. And make no mistake, it was their choice. I don't even know why we are having this argument anymore.
[/quote]

Kaskus declared war on GOONS, not the other way around. The treaty they signed with MONGOLS was posted during our negotiations with MONGOLS.

They were clearly the aggressors in that regard.

[Lord Caparo]

[quote name='mattski133' timestamp='1333419882' post='2947614']
Kaskus declared war on GOONS, not the other way around. The treaty they signed with MONGOLS was posted during our negotiations with MONGOLS.

They were clearly the aggressors in that regard.
[/quote]

Yes it was posted During Negotiations which i was part of if you remember, seeing as i said i was a treaty partner to One of you government means that it was signed but not posted.

[mattski133]

[quote name='Lord Caparo' timestamp='1333424032' post='2947651']
Yes it was posted During Negotiations which i was part of if you remember, seeing as i said i was a treaty partner to One of you government means that it was signed but not posted.
[/quote]

yeah. what a stroke of fortune for the MONGOLS.

[Lord Caparo]

[quote name='mattski133' timestamp='1333424360' post='2947654']
yeah. what a stroke of fortune for the MONGOLS.
[/quote]

What a stroke of Misfortune for GOONs then, getting hold of one alliance whos only ally wont back down.

[Umar ibn Abd al-Aziz]

[quote name='Lord Caparo' timestamp='1333426852' post='2947670']
What a stroke of Misfortune for GOONs then, getting hold of one alliance whos only ally wont back down.
[/quote]
I would think it's more a stroke of fortune for us actually but hey, different strokes for different folks, right?

[mattski133]

[quote name='Lord Caparo' timestamp='1333426852' post='2947670']
What a stroke of Misfortune for GOONs then, getting hold of one alliance whos only ally wont back down.
[/quote]

i think you might, but i agree you've certainly proven that so far.

[Sardonic]

[quote name='Aeros' timestamp='1333413473' post='2947535']
Ah, I was misunderstanding, I thought you were referring to the person who helped the target, not the raider. Raiding is a different beast. In my view, a raider is on his own up until the point he is faced with annihilation. So I suppose my thought process is that your raiders must be very bad at war if 3 million dongs and 2,000 soldiers is enough the give the target of 3 raiding nations a significant advantage.
[/quote]
I don't know why people keep replying to your posts, it's obvious you don't comprehend the importance of upholding policies and precidents, and are instead making quaint thinly veiled insults.

Edited April 3, 2012 by Sardonic

[Courland]

[quote name='Emperor Marx' timestamp='1333417706' post='2947575']
I do not know why we're bothering to explain how diplomacy works and why to mirco alliance leaders and members.
[/quote]


You are not explaining how diplomacy works, you are explaining how bullying works:

1) Raid defenseless tech trader with 3 nations geared for war. Why? Because you are much stronger than them and know you can get away with it.
2) See smaller alliance, demand reparations for interfering with your bullying. Why? Because you are much stronger than them and know you can get away with it.

Well, MONGOLS decided that taking a beating from the schoolyard bully was preferable to being bullied. My apologies for not playing by your almighty rules of (gunboat) "diplomacy."

[ControlVolume]

To be fair, I haven't really seen MONGOLS come in and start debating semantics. They've mostly taken the stance of "Go $%&@ yourselves," and to that degree, while I don't admire their situation, I do admire their attitude.

[Sardonic]

[quote name='Courland' timestamp='1333434040' post='2947717']
Well, MONGOLS decided that taking a beating from the schoolyard bully was preferable to being bullied. My apologies for not playing by your almighty rules of (gunboat) "diplomacy."
[/quote]
Gunboat diplomacy would be forcing you to do tech deals with us and our allies at 50/3 for a time of our choosing. Paying a mere 18m is by comparison quite light.

Your people made the wrong call, but you can end this war any time you want. Accept our offer or make an acceptable new one, and move on.

[Thrash]

[quote name='mattski133' timestamp='1333412791' post='2947524']
well i believe a few have already surfaced (was it...Invicta?) that would leave the raiding nations to deal with the nation they are fighting even if that nation is getting aided by a third party.
[/quote]

We don't allow raiding, so yea if someone did that they'd be on their own.

[Tick1]

The only reason I even care about this thread is because you guys keep raising the radiation level. Every alliance should demand reparations for your use of nuclear weapons! You are hurting everyone's income and destroying the air for my children.

I can make invalid points too.

[Lord Caparo]

[quote name='Tick1' timestamp='1333461766' post='2947821']
The only reason I even care about this thread is because you guys keep raising the radiation level. Every alliance should demand reparations for your use of nuclear weapons! You are hurting everyone's income and destroying the air for my children.

I can make invalid points too.
[/quote]


Dont start on us, GOONs started this! They can also end it very easily to.

[suryanto tan]

[quote name='Tick1' timestamp='1333461766' post='2947821']
The only reason I even care about this thread is because you guys keep raising the radiation level. Every alliance should demand reparations for your use of nuclear weapons! You are hurting everyone's income and destroying the air for my children.

I can make invalid points too.
[/quote]

I will be counting on you to end this. Thank you in advance.

[Swatch0]

[quote name='Umar ibn Abd al-Aziz' timestamp='1333428072' post='2947682']
I would think it's more a stroke of fortune for us actually
[/quote]

You really think so?

[Unknown Smurf]

[quote name='Umar ibn Abd al-Aziz' timestamp='1333411048' post='2947507']
You should add yourself and the 4 or so ex-NEW nations who joined in, added ~250-280k ns to Kaskus
[/quote]

Kaskus was just under 580k after I joined... I added ~70k for the NEW guys.