a Kaskus Declaration

[Sardonic]

[quote name='Unknown Smurf' timestamp='1334608922' post='2954420']
!@#$%^&*. First of all, Polaris still isn't sanctioned. Secondly you guys were unable to even stagger the prominent members/best fighters/government of Kaskus/Mongols, in fact only one nation was properly staggered throughout the entire conflict. Thirdly, you couldn't even manage the 1/3rd the number of wars against Mongols/Kaskus (despite having 4 times the number of members) as they managed against you, and don't give me any !@#$%^&* about not being in range because they were able to declare on you. And you had 4 times the number of nations in anarchy than Mongols/Kaskus right before PB was called in.

By no stretch of the imagination was GOONS holding their own.

By your own admission you don't "do" war/IA, so please don't start acting like you know what you're talking about.
[/quote]
Perhaps we should have included a shutting up clause in your surrender agreement. given that we were in the middle of a rebuilding cycle and the nature of the conflict, we didn't do too badly, especially against mongols.

Also you're one to talk about not knowing anything about war/ia Mr. 15 minute SDI cooldown.

Edited April 16, 2012 by Sardonic

[smurthwaite]

[quote name='death from above 82' timestamp='1334468738' post='2953649']
for aiding our tech seller and the tech seller of your bloc partners by the way- you had the first act of aggression- 3 on 1 raid- then declaring war on mongols



edit changed a word
[/quote]

I'm sure you would have figured out by now that talking sense does no good to the collective mouth breathing mentality of Sardonic and cronies.

Don't pay. They'll just attack anyway. And then they will try to blame you for it. Isn't that right Sardonic?

[Sardonic]

[quote name='smurthwaite' timestamp='1334610729' post='2954444']
I'm sure you would have figured out by now that talking sense does no good to the collective mouth breathing mentality of Sardonic and cronies.

Don't pay. They'll just attack anyway. And then they will try to blame you for it. Isn't that right Sardonic?
[/quote]
Yes because we have a history of attacking people after taking their money. you, NPL, by your leadership's own admission deserved it. Your multiple Instances of threatening our raiders, and trying to screw around with our rep deal did you no favors with my membership. You better believe we were going to take that shot.

[smurthwaite]

[quote name='Sardonic' timestamp='1334611543' post='2954448']
Yes because we have a history of attacking people after taking their money. you, NPL, by your leadership's own admission deserved it. Your multiple Instances of threatening our raiders, and trying to screw around with our rep deal did you no favors with my membership. You better believe we were going to take that shot.
[/quote]

I was in leadership and I know, being the gentlman that you clearly are, you would never take such an admission out of context; let me clarify for the rest of you; we deserved to pay reps. NPL sat down with Sardonic (proverbially) and came to the conclusion that we had, in fact, overstepped the bounds of acceptable behavior (let's chalk it up noob behavior, to a bunch of guys who were in a new AA and had never been government before)(this is the only admission we ever made about deserving anything). We came to terms and paid them. There was a hicup in the payment that was taken care of when things were clarified. Then, a month or so later, Goons hit us, all 70 of us.

So yes, it does appear that you do, in fact, have an established history of attacking people after taking their money. Funny how it works huh? That whole bully syndrome - we let you bully us, but you attacked anyway, only you had call in help to attack, the help of all DH + Alchemy + Europa, and we still fought you for almost two months. Now you attack a micro, who has another micro come to their aid, and you need the help of all DH + PB.

I'll leave it at that; I'm sure you'll offer some sort of excuse for your behavior.

I'm done now.

Good day; I SAID GOOD DAY!

[Mr Havok]

[quote name='Sardonic' timestamp='1334610074' post='2954436']
Perhaps we should have included a shutting up clause in your surrender agreement. given that we were in the middle of a rebuilding cycle and the nature of the conflict, we didn't do too badly, especially against mongols.

Also you're one to talk about not knowing anything about war/ia Mr. 15 minute SDI cooldown.
[/quote]

You do realize that Mongols had just finished a war with BTA as well, wait a minute of course you did that's why you thought they would fold so quickly

I don't know why people are so surprised that umbrellas indentured servants can't accomplish a single thing on their own

[Unknown Smurf]

[quote name='Sardonic' timestamp='1334611543' post='2954448']
Yes because we have a history of attacking people after taking their money. you, NPL, by your leadership's own admission deserved it. Your multiple Instances of threatening our raiders, and trying to screw around with our rep deal did you no favors with my membership. You better believe we were going to take that shot.
[/quote]

As well as multiple threats that you would do so by your membership.

And before you state that "members" don't speak for GOONS, realize you've spent most of your time criticizing mongols based on their "members" posts.

[Leerjet]

News feed of the day:

Ladies and gentlemen, can I please have your attention. I've just been handed an urgent and horrifying news story. I need all of you, to stop what you're doing and listen.

"Shocking disasters have struck the planet Bob, the SWORD alliance has now seemed to have merged into Kaskus, thus improving their strength by the dozens. I'm leerjet and that is your news for the day.

Go $%&@ yourself San Diego.

[Lurunin]

[quote name='Leerjet' timestamp='1334615106' post='2954473']
News feed of the day:

Ladies and gentlemen, can I please have your attention. I've just been handed an urgent and horrifying news story. I need all of you, to stop what you're doing and listen.

"Shocking disasters have struck the planet Bob, the SWORD alliance has now seemed to have merged into Kaskus, thus improving their strength by the dozens. I'm leerjet and that is your news for the day.

Go $%&@ yourself San Diego.
[/quote]

Oh no you know what that means....Who's coming in next guys? bets?

[Leerjet]

The next big micro of course!
http://www.cybernations.net/stats_alliance_stats_custom.asp?Alliance=Northern Emergence Pact

[Neo Uruk]

[quote name='Unknown Smurf' timestamp='1334614638' post='2954471']
As well as multiple threats that you would do so by your membership.

And before you state that "members" don't speak for GOONS, realize you've spent most of your time criticizing mongols based on their "members" posts.
[/quote]

Awful posting and awful leadership aren't really the same.

[Starfox101]

[quote name='Sardonic' timestamp='1334596302' post='2954311']
We weren't losing, we were holding our own.
[/quote]
Fire your entire War Department.

[Sardonic]

[quote name='smurthwaite' timestamp='1334613561' post='2954459']
I was in leadership and I know, being the gentlman that you clearly are, you would never take such an admission out of context;
[/quote]
[quote]
Session Start: Sun Dec 11 00:57:07 2011
Session Ident: KemMo[NPL]
[00:57] Session Ident: KemMo[NPL] (Coldfront, Sardonic)
[00:57] <KemMo[NPL]> Hey, you around?
01[00:57] <Sardonic> yeah sup
[00:57] <KemMo[NPL]> I put in a diplo app at your place
[00:58] <KemMo[NPL]> I didn't realize there was that much resentment with your guys
01[00:58] <Sardonic> yeah, the members take raiding way, way seriously
01[00:58] <Sardonic> and the messages sent to us were pretty violent
01[00:59] <Sardonic> but I am confident that following this war and whatever resultant mercy terms we can come up with, things will be fine
[00:59] <KemMo[NPL]> Regarding the messages... I wasn't aware of them, and if I was they wouldn't have flown...
01[01:00] <Sardonic> fair enough
[01:00] <KemMo[NPL]> I apologize about the !@#$%^&* we put you guys through
[01:00] <KemMo[NPL]> really
[01:00] <KemMo[NPL]> we treated you like !@#$
[01:00] <KemMo[NPL]> we deserve this
01[01:00] <Sardonic> well, thank you, I really appreciate that
[01:01] <KemMo[NPL]> It's the truth
[01:01] <KemMo[NPL]> if any violent messages or anything like that come through
[01:01] <KemMo[NPL]> get in touch with me
[01:01] <KemMo[NPL]> I'll handle it
01[01:01] <Sardonic> sure thing
[01:01] <KemMo[NPL]> I had the Triumvirate abolished for that reason
[01:02] <KemMo[NPL]> But anyways, take it easy
01[01:02] <Sardonic> you as well
Session Close: Sun Dec 11 01:02:11 2011
[/quote]
Please, if you can, point to me where the admission is out of context. Also note that the above was before the first play was rejected I believe, and the ensuing mercy board "attempts" served to reinvigorate disdain for your alliance.
[quote]
let me clarify for the rest of you; we deserved to pay reps. NPL sat down with Sardonic (proverbially) and came to the conclusion that we had, in fact, overstepped the bounds of acceptable behavior (let's chalk it up noob behavior, to a bunch of guys who were in a new AA and had never been government before)
[/quote]
Was KingWally a noob at the time? Because he was one of the prime actors in the incident.
[quote]
(this is the only admission we ever made about deserving anything). We came to terms and paid them. There was a hicup in the payment that was taken care of when things were clarified. Then, a month or so later, Goons hit us, all 70 of us.
[/quote]
Ok first of all, you're glossing over the fact that your "hiccup" in payment was your attempt to screw with us by making it take greater than a month for a fairly small amount by demanding that the nations that sent the aid and the nations that accepted the aid were of your choosing. Fortunately your allies talked you out of such a rash stance in paying reparations to an aggrieved party.

Secondly, you did pay, there is no question of that, but the accumulated grievances in both your insulting attempt to control the payment and the continued bad taste in our raider's mouths were more than enough in our minds to ride to war for.
[quote]
So yes, it does appear that you do, in fact, have an established history of attacking people after taking their money. Funny how it works huh?
[/quote]
You're one data point. Get over yourselves. Alliances have been rolled for less than you did to us. Additionally, one data point does not even establish a pattern.
[quote]
That whole bully syndrome - we let you bully us, but you attacked anyway, only you had call in help to attack, the help of all DH + Alchemy + Europa, and we still fought you for almost two months. Now you attack a micro, who has another micro come to their aid, and you need the help of all DH + PB.
[/quote]
You could have stopped fighting us at any time in that second month if you had actually taken the time to craft a suitable mercy board entry, like courland over there has been doing, he seems capable of crafting one.
[quote]
I'll leave it at that; I'm sure you'll offer some sort of excuse for your behavior.
[/quote]
I have no "excuses", I have acted in accordance with the beliefs of my alliance.

Edited April 17, 2012 by Sardonic

[Courland]

[quote name='smurthwaite' timestamp='1334613561' post='2954459']
I was in leadership and I know, being the gentlman that you clearly are, you would never take such an admission out of context; let me clarify for the rest of you; we deserved to pay reps. NPL sat down with Sardonic (proverbially) and came to the conclusion that we had, in fact, overstepped the bounds of acceptable behavior (let's chalk it up noob behavior, to a bunch of guys who were in a new AA and had never been government before)(this is the only admission we ever made about deserving anything). We came to terms and paid them. There was a hicup in the payment that was taken care of when things were clarified. Then, a month or so later, Goons hit us, all 70 of us.

So yes, it does appear that you do, in fact, have an established history of attacking people after taking their money. Funny how it works huh? That whole bully syndrome - we let you bully us, but you attacked anyway, only you had call in help to attack, the help of all DH + Alchemy + Europa, and we still fought you for almost two months. Now you attack a micro, who has another micro come to their aid, and you need the help of all DH + PB.

I'll leave it at that; I'm sure you'll offer some sort of excuse for your behavior.

I'm done now.

Good day; I SAID GOOD DAY!
[/quote]


I find this entire statement quite profound.

[Dr William Westcher]

[quote name='smurthwaite' timestamp='1334613561' post='2954459']
I was in leadership and I know, being the gentlman that you clearly are, you would never take such an admission out of context; let me clarify for the rest of you; we deserved to pay reps. NPL sat down with Sardonic (proverbially) and came to the conclusion that we had, in fact, overstepped the bounds of acceptable behavior (let's chalk it up noob behavior, to a bunch of guys who were in a new AA and had never been government before)(this is the only admission we ever made about deserving anything). We came to terms and paid them. There was a hicup in the payment that was taken care of when things were clarified. Then, a month or so later, Goons hit us, all 70 of us.

So yes, it does appear that you do, in fact, have an established history of attacking people after taking their money. Funny how it works huh? That whole bully syndrome - we let you bully us, but you attacked anyway, only you had call in help to attack, the help of all DH + Alchemy + Europa, and we still fought you for almost two months. Now you attack a micro, who has another micro come to their aid, and you need the help of all DH + PB.

I'll leave it at that; I'm sure you'll offer some sort of excuse for your behavior.

I'm done now.

Good day; I SAID GOOD DAY!
[/quote]

I don't even know what to say about this.

I wish I was surprised?

I actually think that there is no reply to try and argue that... is there? Is Smurthwaite a liar too?



Damn.


[quote=Sardonic]You're one data point. Get over yourselves. Alliances have been rolled for less than you did to us. Additionally, one data point does not establish a pattern.[/quote]

Actually from what I have read it seems more like the one point that your couldn't empirically mutate. And furthermore, it seems the only point that would matter.

Because if its true then why ever pay goons reps?

Edited April 17, 2012 by Dr William Westcher

[r00tn00b]

[quote name='Dr William Westcher' timestamp='1334638335' post='2954696']
I don't even know what to say about this.

I wish I was surprised?

I actually think that there is no reply to try and argue that... is there? Is Smurthwaite a liar too?



Damn.
[/quote]
literally 2 posts above yours is a direct reply, that makes him out to be a liar.

[Sardonic]

[quote name='r00tn00b' timestamp='1334638430' post='2954697']
literally 2 posts above yours is a direct reply, that makes him out to be a liar.
[/quote]
You'll have to excuse the guy, he appears to have the typical GOONS-Detractor blinders on.

[Dr William Westcher]

[quote name='Sardonic' timestamp='1334638614' post='2954699']
You'll have to excuse the guy, he appears to have the typical GOONS-Detractor blinders on.
[/quote]

au contraire, I am simply trying to express (respectfully at all times might I add) concern.

If NPL payed reps, was there a reason for another attack?

[Sardonic]

[quote name='Dr William Westcher' timestamp='1334638924' post='2954700']
au contraire, I am simply trying to express (respectfully at all times might I add) concern.

If NPL payed reps, was there a reason for another attack?
[/quote]
Yes. The reason is quite clearly stated above, and indeed powerful enough for one of the head honchos of NPL to declare "they deserved it" if that's not enough for you, I don't know what to tell you.

Beyond that, I don't know, maybe the couple hundred times we've received reps for a minor incident and not gone to war? There are many, many examples of us conducting business normally and honestly, and no examples of us [I]unreasonably[/I] attacking somebody after taking their money.

[nutkase]

[quote name='Unknown Smurf' timestamp='1334614638' post='2954471']
As well as multiple threats that you would do so by your membership.

And before you state that "members" don't speak for GOONS, realize you've spent most of your time criticizing mongols based on their "members" posts.
[/quote]

Please shut up, you surrendered while your alliances continues on.

You have no leg to stand on when it comes to discussing this situation anymore.

[Unknown Smurf]

[quote name='nutkase' timestamp='1334641380' post='2954710']
Please shut up, you surrendered while your alliances continues on.

You have no leg to stand on when it comes to discussing this situation anymore.
[/quote]

Yes, someone who was a part of the war has "no leg to stand on while discussing this situation" whereas someone who constantly commentates from the sidelines but rarely, if ever, does anything is a expert on the issue.

Never change.

I also joined for this war, consider all the facts before you imply cowardice. There was extenuating circumstances regarding my surrender.

[Vanilla Napalm]

[quote name='Unknown Smurf' timestamp='1334648761' post='2954747']
There was extenuating circumstances regarding my surrender.
[/quote]
Gotta love the Sparta defense. Warchest start getting too low, champ?

[Courland]

[quote name='Vanilla Napalm' timestamp='1334655805' post='2954773']
Gotta love the Sparta defense. Warchest start getting too low, champ?
[/quote]

Unknown Smurf fought bravely and with honor in a war he volunteered for. If half the people who post did one quarter as much as he has, GOONS would have ceased to exist sometime in March.

[nutkase]

[quote name='Unknown Smurf' timestamp='1334648761' post='2954747']
Yes, someone who was a part of the war has "no leg to stand on while discussing this situation" whereas someone who constantly commentates from the sidelines but rarely, if ever, does anything is a expert on the issue.

Never change.

I also joined for this war, consider all the facts before you imply cowardice. There was extenuating circumstances regarding my surrender.
[/quote]

Part of it then ran away when convenient and leaving your allies on the battlefield.

Sorry but I don't stand up and be counted whenever you decide so. Many times I have joined a side to fight, if you actually checked my nation you would see that and never have I left the field without the others even if I disagreed with them.

I literally hate GOONS, I can't wait to see them burn. Yet I stand against you with Sardonic, so what does that tell you of what I think of you and your petty excuses for surrender.

[Monster]

[quote name='Courland' timestamp='1334656628' post='2954779']
Unknown Smurf fought bravely and with honor in a war he volunteered for. If half the people who post did one quarter as much as he has, GOONS would have ceased to exist sometime in March.
[/quote]

No, they'd have just gotten countered by GOONS' allies, especially if you gave them bigger nations to chew on.

There's Umbrella, TLR, MK, Europa, NG, VE, AO, and FOK, even. If TLR went in, the entirety of C&G would have to as well and NEW would have enter against the Kaskus side with Europa.

If you want GOONS taken down, the war cannot start with GOONS or have GOONS as the flashpoint. They are a hive of treaties and you don't go sticking your hand in it.

Edited April 17, 2012 by Roquentin

[Courland]

EDIT: Never mind. Misread something.


[quote name='Roquentin' timestamp='1334656844' post='2954781']
If you want GOONS taken down, the war cannot start with GOONS or have GOONS as the flashpoint. They are a hive of treaties and you don't go sticking your hand in it.
[/quote]


First of all, we didn't land on the hive, the hive landed on us.

And you really don't get it, do you? We don't want to "take GOONS down." We just want to be left alone.

Edited April 17, 2012 by Courland