suryanto tan Posted April 9, 2012 Report Share Posted April 9, 2012 [quote name='BloodFury' timestamp='1334011388' post='2950496'] Indebted? All we wanted out of it was to tech deal with MONGOLS and Kaskus after the war. It would have been a free gift to get peace for friends. [/quote] If you really care for friendship, I suggest you do not cast us as the unreasonable ones who won‘t pay. I genuinely think we can ask for reps as well especially seeing how the war is started. Whether they will approve or not is their decision to make. Your line of thinking that we should just surrender without a real fight do not appeal to us. It may work for sissies but not us. We have yet to fall into their meat grinder range they proudly advertised. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Caparo Posted April 10, 2012 Report Share Posted April 10, 2012 [quote name='suryanto tan' timestamp='1334012489' post='2950504'] If you really care for friendship, I suggest you do not cast us as the unreasonable ones who won‘t pay. I genuinely think we can ask for reps as well especially seeing how the war is started. Whether they will approve or not is their decision to make. Your line of thinking that we should just surrender without a real fight do not appeal to us. It may work for sissies but not us. We have yet to fall into their meat grinder range they proudly advertised. [/quote] I agree with everything Tan has said here. We thanked the Combine for their offer to help us achieve peace, but we decided to continue on our merry way. As much as this may look like we are hostile towards the Combine, let me say this openly as Emperor of Kaskus, our relations have never been better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swatch0 Posted April 10, 2012 Report Share Posted April 10, 2012 [quote name='ControlVolume' timestamp='1334007635' post='2950472'] Oh by the way the "smart decisions" Swatch is talking about is disbanding all of his improvements (including war related ones) and then bleeding 18mil in aid in about a day. [/quote] What do you mean bleeding 18m in a day? You have no idea what I used that money on and if you do, congrats your pretty smart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Caparo Posted April 10, 2012 Report Share Posted April 10, 2012 [quote name='Swatch0' timestamp='1334018616' post='2950541'] What do you mean bleeding 18m in a day? You have no idea what I used that money on and if you do, congrats your pretty smart. [/quote] Well they did just call on a Non Grata nation to help, maybe they need more aid? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown Smurf Posted April 10, 2012 Report Share Posted April 10, 2012 [quote name='Swatch0' timestamp='1334018616' post='2950541'] What do you mean bleeding 18m in a day? You have no idea what I used that money on and if you do, congrats your pretty smart. [/quote] How did you get 18mill a day? 6 wars against GOONS * 2 GA's each = 12 million. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Groucho Marx Posted April 10, 2012 Report Share Posted April 10, 2012 I think he was factoring in the multitude of losing GAs from dear old Swatch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swatch0 Posted April 10, 2012 Report Share Posted April 10, 2012 No, I think he ment the 18m aid I received Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sephiroth Posted April 10, 2012 Report Share Posted April 10, 2012 (edited) [quote name='BloodFury' timestamp='1333945118' post='2950211'] If I recall, the reps were higher when we offered to pay them off. Kaskus turned us down because they didn't want peace for themselves or their ally. [/quote] I remember when TOP did something similiar to try putting my first war with GOONS to an end. Even if they didn't say they wanted anything in return, there usually are some expectations when sending money out. Would you guys feel like the money you sent was wasted if Kaskus or Mongols end up fighting GOONS again in the future? I don't know why you would put words in their mouth on the reasoning, but even if you're paying the money the result is the same for GOONS. They get rewarded for what they've done to start this war and dragging it out as far as they have, maybe Kaskus/Mongols don't feel GOONS deserves a reward. When TOP made the deal with GOONS to pay them $90m and told me, my response was they were offering to much money and to cancel the peace since I didn't want such an agreement ending our war. The person from TOP replied that they were already sending the money out, they wanted nothing from me in return and just wanted me to go along with the deal they made. So I ended up agreeing to it and my war with GOONS ended for some time, but I never felt my war had a satisfying ending with them until after the second time I fought them. If GOONS want to make things right with Mongols/Kaskus, they should give terms to them which these alliance think are fair to both sides and agreeable. If your main interest here is to help Kaskus or Mongols, why not send them aid or join them to fight for better terms? Why do you want to pay GOONS off to end a war which would otherwise damage GOONS until they give peace without needing somebody uninvolved in the war to pay them? Edited April 10, 2012 by Methrage Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nutkase Posted April 10, 2012 Report Share Posted April 10, 2012 [quote name='suryanto tan' timestamp='1334012489' post='2950504'] If you really care for friendship, I suggest you do not cast us as the unreasonable ones who won‘t pay. I genuinely think we can ask for reps as well especially seeing how the war is started. Whether they will approve or not is their decision to make. Your line of thinking that we should just surrender without a real fight do not appeal to us. It may work for sissies but not us. We have yet to fall into their meat grinder range they proudly advertised. [/quote] While I am very much enjoying GOONS trying to solve this headache they created. You are delusional to think you can ask for reps. The victor gets to decide that and while you may be in a better position PR wise, you are not when it comes to the long run of this war. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KenoCore Posted April 10, 2012 Report Share Posted April 10, 2012 (edited) IMPO - Kaskus and Mongols should accept reps (let's say 150-175mil) -GOONS will protect Kaskus & Mongols until the debt is paid ( and paid by a certain resonable time) - You 3 shake hands say it was a good fight and have a few beers and enjoy the game. - (optional)Umbrella / NEW / MK Apologize for there part in a war that didn't necessarily concern them IMPO But like i said and will say for the 3rd time this is my personal opinion and was just an idea that would resolve this and would be fair to both sides. - War wise this is not a winnable war for Kaskus/Mongol - PR wise this is hurting GOONS - GOONS get's their money and can say "we won" - Kaskus & Mongols get protection while they pay reps so they are not open to attacks ^ pretty fair to me Edited April 10, 2012 by KenoCore Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leet Guy Posted April 10, 2012 Report Share Posted April 10, 2012 (edited) [quote name='KenoCore' timestamp='1334066654' post='2950688'] - (optional)Umbrella / NEW / MK Apologize for there part in a war that didn't necessarily concern them [/quote] Why the $%&@ would I apologize for trying to [ooc]hold onto a forum pip[/ooc] and aiding an ally as needed? Edit: Added [ooc] tags I guess Edited April 10, 2012 by Leet Guy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurion Posted April 10, 2012 Report Share Posted April 10, 2012 (edited) [quote name='Sardonic' timestamp='1333948150' post='2950245'] If we didn't think we made a mistake, why did we leave the front so quickly? Regardless, the story is a matter of public record, and it's not something I'm terribly proud of, I'm sure Xiph would tell you if you were interested. [/quote] I personally am not out for your blood over the pre-empt, but it certainly didn't [i]raise[/i] my opinion of GOONS regardless of the reasoning. Your lack of pride over it doesn't really oblige me to think everything is puppies and flowers and happiness. And I'm sure you can see why I might have reason to question the sincerity of your sentiments. Or you might just think I'm a horribly cynical guy. Either works. Edited April 10, 2012 by Aurion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KenoCore Posted April 10, 2012 Report Share Posted April 10, 2012 [quote name='Leet Guy' timestamp='1334069037' post='2950702'] Why the $%&@ would I apologize for trying to [ooc]hold onto a forum pip[/ooc] and aiding an ally as needed? Edit: Added [ooc] tags I guess [/quote] Holding a Forum pip isn't really a good CB . or every alliance should war all the sanctioned so they can get there chance (which OOC: would make quite an interesting war and possibly an enternal global war which would be a pretty BA King of the Hill concept) . But the optional was more of making it fair as there is dislike from both sides on each others allies. hence the (optional). Aiding an Ally is fine but then both sides need to stop pointing at each other and being like hey NEW get out of Kaskus AA and Hey MK get off GOONS AA. No need to be hypocrites in the matter. ( i am not saying you were one of those people). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sephiroth Posted April 10, 2012 Report Share Posted April 10, 2012 (edited) [quote name='KenoCore' timestamp='1334066654' post='2950688'] IMPO - Kaskus and Mongols should accept reps (let's say 150-175mil) -GOONS will protect Kaskus & Mongols until the debt is paid ( and paid by a certain resonable time) - You 3 shake hands say it was a good fight and have a few beers and enjoy the game. - (optional)Umbrella / NEW / MK Apologize for there part in a war that didn't necessarily concern them IMPO But like i said and will say for the 3rd time this is my personal opinion and was just an idea that would resolve this and would be fair to both sides. - War wise this is not a winnable war for Kaskus/Mongol - PR wise this is hurting GOONS - GOONS get's their money and can say "we won" - Kaskus & Mongols get protection while they pay reps so they are not open to attacks ^ pretty fair to me [/quote] If Kaskus/Mongols get an offer for good terms where they do some tech deals with GOONS which end up benefiting all, then I think Kaskus/Mongols should accept. If its just straight reps GOONS want without offering anything in return, then as long as Mongols/Kaskus have any fighting capacity left they might as well just continue enjoying the war. Its rare to be able to fight GOONS without worrying about getting sanctioned and GOONS managed to get themselves into a war where they can't request sanctions without looking like fools for trying. Edited April 10, 2012 by Methrage Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suryanto tan Posted April 10, 2012 Report Share Posted April 10, 2012 (edited) [quote name='nutkase' timestamp='1334064450' post='2950681'] While I am very much enjoying GOONS trying to solve this headache they created. You are delusional to think you can ask for reps. The victor gets to decide that and while you may be in a better position PR wise, you are not when it comes to the long run of this war. [/quote] The good thing about us is that we are not very clever at predicting the future of this war. So I guess we will have yet to see how this war will evolve. Believe me, they are not in better position to offer reps to us than we do to them. Everybody can ask for reps, but whether it is to be approved or not, they have no idea of knowing it any better than we do. Simply asking is easy, but to get the other side to approve, not easy. You will learn this as you progress. Take it easy. Edited April 10, 2012 by suryanto tan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leet Guy Posted April 10, 2012 Report Share Posted April 10, 2012 [quote name='KenoCore' timestamp='1334070939' post='2950711'] every alliance should war all the sanctioned so they can get there chance (which OOC: would make quite an interesting war and possibly an enternal global war which would be a pretty BA King of the Hill concept) [/quote] That's actually a fantastic idea haha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sardonic Posted April 10, 2012 Report Share Posted April 10, 2012 [quote name='Aurion' timestamp='1334070696' post='2950708'] I personally am not out for your blood over the pre-empt, but it certainly didn't [i]raise[/i] my opinion of GOONS regardless of the reasoning. Your lack of pride over it doesn't really oblige me to think everything is puppies and flowers and happiness. And I'm sure you can see why I might have reason to question the sincerity of your sentiments. Or you might just think I'm a horribly cynical guy. Either works. [/quote] Believe me or don't, I said my piece. [quote name='suryanto tan' timestamp='1334073034' post='2950715'] The good thing about us is that we are not very clever at predicting the future of this war. So I guess we will have yet to see how this war will evolve. Believe me, they are not in better position to offer reps to us than we do to them. Everybody can ask for reps, but whether it is to be approved or not, they have no idea of knowing it any better than we do. Simply asking is easy, but to get the other side to approve, not easy. You will learn this as you progress. Take it easy. [/quote] You do realize you're talking to somebody who was quite literally in your exact situation? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown Smurf Posted April 10, 2012 Report Share Posted April 10, 2012 [quote name='Sardonic' timestamp='1334083378' post='2950756'] You do realize you're talking to somebody who was quite literally in your exact situation? [/quote] When were you in the same position as Kaskus is now? You've never been in a war without overwhelming numbers on your side. Unless you're counting when you had billions in aid coming from Umbrella. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sardonic Posted April 10, 2012 Report Share Posted April 10, 2012 (edited) [quote name='Unknown Smurf' timestamp='1334084040' post='2950762'] When were you in the same position as Kaskus is now? You've never been in a war without overwhelming numbers on your side. Unless you're counting when you had billions in aid coming from Umbrella. [/quote] Nutkase led the ninjas and FnKA assault against us in roguefest. Edited April 10, 2012 by Sardonic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nutkase Posted April 10, 2012 Report Share Posted April 10, 2012 Got a laugh out of me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sephiroth Posted April 10, 2012 Report Share Posted April 10, 2012 [quote name='Sardonic' timestamp='1334084803' post='2950765'] Nutkase led the ninjas and FnKA assault against us in roguefest. [/quote] This war is different in that you have no excuse to label any of those you fight a rogue. Sending aid or doing tech deals with Kaskus is not anymore wrong from a political viewpoint than you guys receiving aid from alliances not officially in this war or doing tech deals while the war is ongoing. Roguefest was just showing people what somebody could do without putting much effort forth in fighting back against an alliance such as yours, although I didn't put effort forth to grab the moral high ground and avoid getting labeled a rogue causing sanctions. Here you are fighting alliances who aren't rogues by any stretch of the term, if more people join them they can get to have the fun of fighting GOONS without being sanctioned since they could join an alliance at war with you making them not a rogue. If people in other alliances send aid to Kaskus or tech deal with them, they would of done nothing wrong if going by the standards you guys use for yourselves. So for any aid that is sent to Kaskus your only claim to them doing something wrong is might makes right, so you could try going after them despite already having your hands full. Although what if 3, 5, 8, 10 or 13 alliances all decided to send aid to Kaskus since they think you are wrong? You guys wouldn't be able to do anything but dig yourselves in a deeper hole by going after them for it until eventually its you guys against most of the world. When you guys consider it fine for others to send you aid while you're at war, then others have no reason to think it wouldn't be fine for them to send aid to the other side to balance things out. GOONS seems to be relying on help from more and more alliances, meaning you guys keep having a harder time in dealing with this. Kaskus should make sure you guys pay whatever reps you've asked of them most recently and make sure you have to pay that before you get peace. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nutkase Posted April 10, 2012 Report Share Posted April 10, 2012 Sardonic actually said he considered us to be a alliance not rogues at the time Just for clarification. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sephiroth Posted April 10, 2012 Report Share Posted April 10, 2012 [quote name='nutkase' timestamp='1334087580' post='2950781'] Sardonic actually said he considered us to be a alliance not rogues at the time Just for clarification. [/quote] Did he get anyone in the Ninjas or FnKa sanctioned? I think I might remember him saying while you guys were alliances, he considered your alliances to be acting as rogues. Although that might of been someone else in GOONS saying they considered your entire alliances to be behaving as rogues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Janova Posted April 10, 2012 Report Share Posted April 10, 2012 I'm pretty sure GOONS consider sanctions to be permissible in alliance warfare. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sephiroth Posted April 10, 2012 Report Share Posted April 10, 2012 (edited) [quote name='Bob Janova' timestamp='1334089579' post='2950792'] I'm pretty sure GOONS consider sanctions to be permissible in alliance warfare. [/quote] Only if they are being used on the enemy, although how many alliances normally grant sanctions as part of whats clearly an alliance war? Edited April 10, 2012 by Methrage Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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