Can I axe a question?

[King Louis the II]

me loves some cactuar...

[Lord Fingolfin]

I think there are some good people in RIA and I like the alliance overall, though it wasn't really the environment I was looking for at the time. For me you guys are just unfortunate collateral damage of Xiphosis' had it coming train, nothing personal

[mythicknight]

The North Remembers.

[Omniscient1]

The people up top always have to have a target so that they can rally their forces. SF annoyed the people on top so they became the next target. RIA just got caught up in all of that.

It's pretty funny how we all called that SF would be next after Polar. Then Roq came out with his "PB-SF MADP 4ever" comment to tell us all that we were wrong. I guess now that he's not here no one is even trying to hide the fact that they want SF dead.

[Sardonic]

[quote name='SWAT128' timestamp='1312576515' post='2772826']
I don't think anything we do would change what seems to be the path that the current powers that be are heading towards.
[/quote]
Well gee, not with that attitude.

[Vol Navy]

[quote name='Omniscient1' timestamp='1312595192' post='2773047']
The people up top always have to have a target so that they can rally their forces. SF annoyed the people on top so they became the next target. RIA just got caught up in all of that.

It's pretty funny how we all called that SF would be next after Polar. Then Roq came out with his "PB-SF MADP 4ever" comment to tell us all that we were wrong. I guess now that he's not here no one is even trying to hide the fact that they want SF dead.
[/quote]


They got what they wanted from SF at a time when they needed it. Now that separate power has been secured, you are no longer needed. Time to pay for your role in WoTC, as pretty much everyone left who sided against MK/CnG/Polaris from that era save SF/XX members have been rolled.

On the positive side, when they tire of their current allies they will probably resign with y'all so you can get revenge against the people lined up against you now.

[Omniscient1]

[quote name='Vol Navy' timestamp='1312598582' post='2773073']
They got what they wanted from SF at a time when they needed it. Now that separate power has been secured, you are no longer needed. Time to pay for your role in WoTC, as pretty much everyone left who sided against MK/CnG/Polaris from that era save SF/XX members have been rolled.

On the positive side, when they tire of their current allies they will probably resign with y'all so you can get revenge against the people lined up against you now.
[/quote]

I honestly don't think they'll get to resign with SF after the next war. So I hope they trust Valhalla, TORN, and IRON to have their backs post-war. I wouldn't want to trust them to constantly protect me after I spent 2 years post-Karma trying to keep them down and make them look bad.

So in the long run it'd be more politically sound for PB and DH to stick with SF, but I will admit it'd be much more boring that way.

Edited August 6, 2011 by Omniscient1

[Vol Navy]

[quote name='Omniscient1' timestamp='1312599126' post='2773079']
I honestly don't think they'll get to resign with SF after the next war. So I hope they trust Valhalla, TORN, and IRON to have their backs post-war. I wouldn't want to trust them to constantly protect me after I spent 2 years post-Karma trying to keep them down and make them look bad.

So in the long run it'd be more politically sound for PB and DH to stick with SF, but I will admit it'd be much more boring that way.
[/quote]


IRON is a fine ally to have, so is Valhalla. I just don't have any idea why they actually trust people who've rolled them in the past and have generally expressed lots of dislike or outright hatred towards them. I guess they feel the need to do this to get their ultimate revenge vs Polaris. I am continually amazed at how MK always comes out smelling like a rose in that deal but they do.

[Azaghul]

[quote name='Vol Navy' timestamp='1312598582' post='2773073']
They got what they wanted from SF at a time when they needed it. Now that separate power has been secured, you are no longer needed. Time to pay for your role in WoTC, as pretty much everyone left who sided against MK/CnG/Polaris from that era save SF/XX members have been rolled.

On the positive side, when they tire of their current allies they will probably resign with y'all so you can get revenge against the people lined up against you now.
[/quote]
MK couldn't care less about SF/XX's role in noCB, as C&G was almost entirely engaged on NPO and I don't believe that anyone in C&G at the time was ever at war with anyone in SF or XX. The only people that we ever really wanted revenge against for that was NPO and we've beaten down or helped beat them down twice now.

The hostility nowadays extends mostly from Xiph's actions, particularly in regard to his reaction to our treaty with TOP.

[quote name='Vol Navy' timestamp='1312603084' post='2773174']
IRON is a fine ally to have, so is Valhalla. I just don't have any idea why they actually trust people who've rolled them in the past and have generally expressed lots of dislike or outright hatred towards them. I guess they feel the need to do this to get their ultimate revenge vs Polaris. I am continually amazed at how MK always comes out smelling like a rose in that deal but they do.[/quote]
When was the last time MK expressed hatred towards Valhalla or IRON? We've had an amicable relation with IRON ever since we signed with TOP.

Edited August 6, 2011 by Azaghul

[Kzoppistan]

[quote name='Vol Navy' timestamp='1312603084' post='2773174']I am continually amazed at how MK always comes out smelling like a rose in that deal but they do.
[/quote]

They put a lot of work into their diplomatic affairs and get results. Dynamic initiative separates the leaders from the stale. What ever one's personal opinions of MK might be, just about everyone could take a lesson from them in that. *cough RIA cough*

Edited August 6, 2011 by Kzoppistan

[Omniscient1]

[quote name='Vol Navy' timestamp='1312603084' post='2773174']
IRON is a fine ally to have, so is Valhalla. I just don't have any idea why they actually trust people who've rolled them in the past and have generally expressed lots of dislike or outright hatred towards them. I guess they feel the need to do this to get their ultimate revenge vs Polaris. I am continually amazed at how MK always comes out smelling like a rose in that deal but they do.
[/quote]

Yea that's what I'm saying. If I was Valhalla I'd wait until this was over and then make sure I got my revenge for all the !@#$ talking post-Karma.

[quote name='Azaghul' timestamp='1312605413' post='2773228']
The hostility nowadays extends mostly from Xiph's actions, particularly in regard to his reaction to our treaty with TOP.
[/quote]

You want to hit Xiph, because he doesn't like TOP. Am I on the list to be rolled next? I dislike them too.

[Ryan Greenberg]

The cool kids have decided it's time for SF to be rolled. It won't be easy with all the treaties SF/XX have, but should be interesting to see how it plays out, if it does play out.

[Dontasemebro]

[quote name='Ryan Greenberg' timestamp='1312646214' post='2773538']
The cool kids have decided it's time for SF to be rolled. It won't be easy with all the treaties SF/XX have, but should be interesting to see how it plays out, if it does play out.
[/quote]
I like your sig, why don't you join an alliance you like and release all their private forum stuff to a bunch of alliances you don't like, and start a war for spying!

[Ryan Greenberg]

[quote name='Dontasemebro' timestamp='1312662139' post='2773690']
I like your sig, why don't you join an alliance you like and release all their private forum stuff to a bunch of alliances you don't like, and start a war for spying!
[/quote]
You should do it too

[Drai]

You admitted your 'humour' on the OWF and our embassy was specifically to annoy people. You then call us childish for wanting no part of it (see: telling you it's retarded and banning Ogaden) and somehow think we have thin skins or are immature ourselves? MK members rile each other up all the time but it's usually done in a more clever manner where a thick skin is actually necessary. It's what weeds out a lot of the members we don't want in our alliance.

As for the CB stuff, I don't think there's anything too significant against RIA specifically. It's more that you're grouped with GOD and CSN who are not on most peoples' good sides at this point.

Edited August 6, 2011 by Drai

[KainIIIC]

[quote name='Drai' timestamp='1312668801' post='2773768']
As for the CB stuff, I don't think there's anything too significant against RIA specifically. It's more that you're grouped with GOD and CSN who are not on most peoples' good sides at this point.
[/quote]

Don't forget SOS.

[shahenshah]

[quote name='Vol Navy' timestamp='1312603084' post='2773174']
IRON is a fine ally to have, so is Valhalla. I just don't have any idea why they actually trust people who've rolled them in the past and have generally expressed lots of dislike or outright hatred towards them. I guess they feel the need to do this to get their ultimate revenge vs Polaris. I am continually amazed at how MK always comes out smelling like a rose in that deal but they do.
[/quote]
I'll speak for myself:

Sometimes the dislikes are not direct, but due to politics of the past era. An era that stopped existing months if not years ago. Sometimes there is just a memory of disliking someone and not an actual dislike (emotionally speaking) (I hope I'm portraying this correctly in words). You stop bumping into each other due to different environment and sometimes these new environments lead you to a chit chat and one thing leads to another and before you know it, you're in the elevator, then on the couch.

True, they beat us in two wars, but likely that was a consequence of us beating them in two wars previous. And it was over a span of ~4-5? years. Almost everyone's beaten up everyone man, Its gotten old, new situations mean new someone to hate! [color="#C0C0C0"][size="1"]Polar[/size][/color] and new situations are also good for the game.

Many potential relations are hijacked by situations of the past. Situations that stopped existing long ago.

Omni, I hope that also answers some of the points you raised.

@OP: You get associated with actions of others. Even tho you may privately disagree with certain things, publicly you portray a unified face(as a bloc) and so you get associated with the actions.

Edited August 7, 2011 by shahenshah

[Khyber]

Besides some silly alliance posts, I like RIA, and Delta. I think we are just on opposite sides, or at least TOP is leaning that way when most wars look like their going to happen. So people on this side have to make you out to be the devil. I don't have any sympathy for you guys, as you did the same thing to us, and I guess that is how things just are.

Delta posted where TOP came to SF to kiss up after the Karma. I really think our alliances would have worked well together if some didn't make sure it never was going to happen. Many in TOP at the time had high opinions of both RIA and FARK. I wouldn't say those days are gone, but they certainly are not at the same level they were, and now for political reasons nothing will come of it.

GOD is a different issue for me though. I dislike Xiph. I dislike Rok as well actually, especially their leader. But I'm an ex-Echelonian, and I've seen the constant bullying from both those leaders and wish them nothing more then karma.

[Alfred von Tirpitz]

[quote name='Khyber' timestamp='1312733563' post='2774184']
GOD is a different issue for me though. I dislike Xiph. I dislike Rok as well actually, especially their leader. But I'm an ex-Echelonian, and I've seen the constant bullying from both those leaders and wish them nothing more then karma.
[/quote]

Constant bullying of Echelon by GOD and RoK? Really? like when Echelon decided to ZI Ragnarok's Lord of foreign Affairs? And had Big P back them on it? Then took months doing it? All because he was in a public channel where someone plotted to Rogue Echelon? Yeah, RoK has kept on bullying Echelon all right.

[Delta1212]

[quote name='Khyber' timestamp='1312733563' post='2774184']
Besides some silly alliance posts, I like RIA, and Delta. I think we are just on opposite sides, or at least TOP is leaning that way when most wars look like their going to happen. So people on this side have to make you out to be the devil. I don't have any sympathy for you guys, as you did the same thing to us, and I guess that is how things just are.
[/quote]
It's interesting for me to see how things develop in this game. I remember, after Karma, there were a number of major blocs, Citadel, SF, C&G, Frostbite, CDT to a much lesser extent politically, and we weren't especially close to any other the others for a good while. We probably had the best communication with C&G simply because of Karma channels that were established and carried over, and we had some issues with Crymson dating from the war that have been gone over ad nauseum and don't really need rehashing. That all said, Dr Dan did a very good job of beginning a process of patching things up and developing some consistent communication with us as a bloc.

Like I said, we didn't have a real standout ally or enemy in that mess straight away. The biggest issue was probably a concern about two or three of the other blocs banding together against someone else (and our concern being the possibility of winding up on the short end of that), but I'm of the opinion based on what I saw then and what I've seen since that most people in bloc leaderships at the time were havingthe same concerns about who to trust and who was a threat, so it was more something to be wary of whenever people started drifting together than it was an abiding fear.

Consequently, we did have that one discussion about what to do that essentially ended in agreement to step back and let you and MK have the grudge match that was obviously building at the time. Most people from that period will probably remember when the logs of that conversation because someone, who subsequently lost his access, didn't realize that !@#$%* wasn't secure.

That was embarrassing, of course, and we wound up having to go around and give people a heads up about what was said before they were linked to it by someone else, which wasn't especially fun, especially telling C&G. I do [i]believe[/I] that's about the point we got the "TOP is too strong and it's bad for the game. Your plan is bad for everyone." argument. I don't remember it being a significantly long discussion, so I may be off about that, but I'm pretty sure that's when it was.

Anyway, wasn't a very detailed argument, obviously, but it was fairly convincing, especially when Crymson replaced Dr Dan again. It wasn't just pre-existing issues. I'll give Crymson credit for putting in some effort, but it wasn't nearly the same calibre as Dr Dan had been putting in, and considering it was coming from someone at the center of the issues trying to be resolved, and... Well, I just don't think Crymson's major talents rest in reconciliation, and it was a bit off-putting after the progress that we'd been making. Lump on top of that the fact that LM became the coalition leader for the other side during the TPF thing, and that's more or less how we wound up where we did in relation to you politically.

Of course, of the issues present at the time, you and MK made up and are friendly, while Xiph, I don't think, really got over the re-election of Crymson prior to that war and so you and he aren't. That does make him, and I suppose us by proxy, pretty believable as the instigator of the TOP 'bedevilment' prior to the war.


I'm not entirely sure why I'm even posting this response. I'm not really expecting to change anyone's minds about, well, anything. To be quite frank, it would be politically stupid for a lot of people to change their minds about much of anything right now, for all sorts of perfectly valid reasons. Thinking about it, I can probably only hurt myself. Trotting out anything contrary to the narrative various people want told to, as you put it, try to make us out as devils will probably just net me accusations of being a liar and manipulator. Then again, I am already starting to catch a whiff of various hints and rumors being dropped that I'm dangerously unstable, anyway. Considering my behavior I'n the Mjolnir DoE, that'll probably find some fertile soil to take seed in, so I'll probably have whatever reputation I've currently got left trashed within a couple months anyway.

I guess I just find it interesting, as someone who has spent probably a few years too many scuttling around in backchannels, to see the comparisons that exist between who does something and who is remembered as getting credit. On a purely intellectual level, divorced from my position in the game, it's quite fascinating.

[Litha Riddle]

Maybe its because you use axe instead of ask. Unless it really is possible to chop a question.

It is a mystery.

[hizzy]

people probably dislike RIA cause they pick friends the way most people choose a toilet stall. I'm not quite sure how to make a witty connection but what I'm trying to say is you have !@#$%* friends.

[Shadow Slayer]

Sardonic, I'd encourage you to stop by our forums sometime. If you get to know us, we aren't all so bad. It sounds like there was a mistake made in the past, but consider giving us a second chance eh?

I don't recognize any other names besides Omni (<3 IAA), but the same invitation goes out to all of you!

[Ashoka the Great]

Hate RIA? No, not really. I just find it difficult to take you seriously, and not because of your name or its implication.

Your announcements stopped being funny a very long time ago. (Parenthetically, the same applies to Fark's 'erection' threads.) I generally read only a few lines before giving up. They're stupid.

As an alliance you're an enabler. You seem to take this as people being upset that 'you're true to your allies' or something like that. This only tells me and others that you don't understand that criticism at all.

[Ogaden]

Zog I don't think you've ever been to our boards or talked to any of us at all, so where are these conclusions coming from?

The brief PM exchange we had like a year ago is the longest contact with RIA I think you've had.

Edited August 8, 2011 by James Dahl