New Sith Order Announcement

[Wu Tang Clan]

I really love you guys. o/ NSO

[Trout]

Truly awesome! o/ NSO

[IYIyTh]

I'm actually waiting to see Legion attack NSO.

[Ghuxalia]

Awesome, there's a nation called minecraft!

[Nikita Ilyich Lenin]

this is awesome. keep doing what you're doing NSO.

[MaGneT]

[quote name='Impact Strafe' timestamp='1309907245' post='2749751']
NSO, you must realize that protecting the free exchange of information does not mean protecting those who commit acts of war, unless you are condoning your members spying. If so, then that is an act of war. However if you do not condon them spying then, you can hand over their names without any hard feelings. The trust that your members gave to you, does not mean that you protect them from themselves, but that together you can solve your issues. This is either a case of NSO spying on Legion, with orders. Or your members spied of their own free will and you should probably let them accept the consequences of their. The formation of alliances does not undo personal responsibilities.
[/quote]
Even if I gave you a spy report of a Legion nation, you still wouldn't be able to prove it was me who carried it out if I did not show you my spy screen (and if I was not caught). To propagate information about an act of war is not an act of war itself.

You're wrong.

[Jaiar]

[quote name='MaGneT' timestamp='1309924696' post='2750001']
Even if I gave you a spy report of a Legion nation, you still wouldn't be able to prove it was me who carried it out if I did not show you my spy screen (and if I was not caught). To propagate information about an act of war is not an act of war itself.

You're wrong.
[/quote]
If someone actually received it from someone else then they are in fact accepting information. What did VE go to war with Polar for?

[Dilber]

Then bring the war to us. I kinda miss fighting Legion.

[MaGneT]

[quote name='Jaiar' timestamp='1309924885' post='2750002']
If someone actually received it from someone else then they are in fact accepting information. What did VE go to war with Polar for?
[/quote]
VE warred Polar for something that isn't a crime. But let's not go back to that issue.

If someone gives you information that is potentially harmful to a party, there is nothing wrong with listening. If your argument was valid, then NSO would have a valid CB against everyone who read the slanderous thread about Varianz.

[Jaiar]

[quote name='Jaiar' timestamp='1309924885' post='2750002']
If someone actually received it from someone else then they are in fact accepting information. What did VE go to war with Polar for?
[/quote][quote name='MaGneT' timestamp='1309925173' post='2750008']
VE warred Polar for something that isn't a crime. But let's not go back to that issue.

If someone gives you information that is potentially harmful to a party, there is nothing wrong with listening. If your argument was valid, then NSO would have a valid CB against everyone who read the slanderous thread about Varianz.
[/quote]
Please clarify. It seems you are saying that VE was wrong to attack Polar for supposedly receiving information. I recall there was outrage over Dajobo merely listening to Lennox.

Polar was accused of accepting information that contained war chest information. People are accepting spy reports which also contain war chest information.

What is the difference?

Edited July 6, 2011 by Jaiar

[Krunk the Great]

[quote name='Jaiar' timestamp='1309925908' post='2750024']
Please clarify. It seems you are saying that VE was wrong to attack Polar for supposedly receiving information. I recall there was outrage over Dajobo merely listening to Lennox.

Polar was accused of accepting information that contained war chest information. People are accepting spy reports which also contain war chest information.

What is the difference?
[/quote]

You know as well as I, every alliance accepts information.

[nutkase]

[quote name='Jaiar' timestamp='1309925908' post='2750024']
Please clarify. It seems you are saying that VE was wrong to attack Polar for supposedly receiving information. I recall there was outrage over Dajobo merely listening to Lennox.

Polar was accused of accepting information that contained war chest information. People are accepting spy reports which also contain war chest information.

What is the difference?
[/quote]

It all hinges on the sole fact of the general dislike of Legion and NpO.

General population dislike NpO therefor accept VE's CB as a valid one, general population dislike Legion therefor discredit it's own.

Nothing more then hypocrisy.

Edited July 6, 2011 by nutkase

[Chalaskan]

[quote name='nutkase' timestamp='1309926786' post='2750048']
It all hinges on the sole fact of the general dislike of Legion and NpO.

General population dislike NpO therefor accept VE's CB as a valid one, general population dislike Legion therefor discredit it's own.

Nothing more then hypocrisy.
[/quote]

I don't think most are discrediting it really. I think it is just that everyone knows if allies were drawn in who would win this war. And there is one particular ally that people have a keen eye on. I imagine all of Legions allies are praying they don't take a swing at NSO, while NSO has a few allies that are foaming at the mouth for one of their allies to jump into they frey so they can jump them.

From what I've seen there have been a fair amount of people flat out saying this is a solid CB.

Kinda like the 15 year old kid picking on another one with his 20 year old body builder brother sitting behind him smiling. I would love to see a 1v1 war, no elevation.

Regardless, Legion should take a punch.

Edited July 6, 2011 by Chalaskan

[Heft]

[quote name='nutkase' timestamp='1309926786' post='2750048']
It all hinges on the sole fact of the general dislike of Legion and NpO.

General population dislike NpO therefor accept VE's CB as a valid one, general population dislike Legion therefor discredit it's own.

Nothing more then hypocrisy.
[/quote]

I thought it was commonly accepted that VE's CB was, at best, trumped up or, at worst, complete hogwash. And the general population has seen fit to egg Legion on and attempt to goad them into declaring war. So you're wrong on both counts. How does that make you feel?

[nutkase]

[quote name='Heft' timestamp='1309927506' post='2750057']
I thought it was commonly accepted that VE's CB was, at best, trumped up or, at worst, complete hogwash. And the general population has seen fit to egg Legion on and attempt to goad them into declaring war. So you're wrong on both counts. How does that make you feel?
[/quote]

Seen to be very trumped up, but still generally accepted. Also there has been lots of comments towards Legion saying they having nothing in terms of a CB.

Would you say that NSO is egging Legion in declaring in order to activate it's treaties where if reversed NSO could not activate any? Just a theory

I'm feeling very warm and comfy, thankyou for asking

Edited July 6, 2011 by nutkase

[Jaiar]

[quote name='Heft' timestamp='1309927506' post='2750057']
I thought it was commonly accepted that VE's CB was, at best, trumped up or, at worst, complete hogwash. And the general population has seen fit to egg Legion on and attempt to goad them into declaring war. So you're wrong on both counts. How does that make you feel?
[/quote]
If members of your alliance did not spy on Legion themselves, where did they get the spy reports?

If they accepted the spy reports directly from the person(s) that spied then it basically becomes the same situation as why VE declared on Polar.

So it cannot be both ways. Either accepting information is bad or it isn't. People cannot agree with VE then and hail NSO now for posting spy reports.

Well, I guess people certainly can as the hypocrisy in this world knows no bounds.

[Heft]

[quote name='nutkase' timestamp='1309928024' post='2750068']
Seen to be very trumped up, but still generally accepted. Also there has been lots of comments towards Legion saying they having nothing in terms of a CB.

Would you say that NSO is egging Legion in declaring in order to activate it's treaties where if reversed NSO could not activate any? Just a theory

I'm feeling very warm and comfy, thankyou for asking
[/quote]

There have been comments saying that Legion has no evidence that the NSO conducted any spying - which is true, and is a response to the initial accusations that set so much of this off. Whether or not posting spy reports freely given to us from anonymous sources constitutes a CB is a bit more muddied and in dispute; there doesn't seem to be much of a consensus on it other than "it would be entertaining to see Legion declare war over it." Which is also true.

Why would we bother to go to all this trouble just to wrangle our treaty partners into a war against Legion? That seems awfully unnecessary. Given what we've seen the last few days, do you really think it would be that hard to convince people to follow us into a war against Legion, even if we were the aggressors? We had our fun demonstrating how inept and nonthreatening Legion is (again, in response to their posts against us and the subsequent accusations) - essentially daring them to declare war on us precisely because we knew they wouldn't. We stumbled into a situation that proved to be entertaining, and in the process managed to illustrate a number of points, particularly that if you're going to try and insult the NSO publicly than you had better not be doing so from a position of complete ineptitude. I think at this point most of us are perfectly content to allow the issue to die (how much more can we really milk out of this?) - Legion seems to have finally gotten their more brash members to stop constantly making asinine comments, and there is nothing left for us to prove.

[Ernesto Che Guevara]

[quote name='nippy' timestamp='1309888014' post='2749521']
What I've learned from this thread:

- NSO has been doubledipped in molten platinum
- Rotavele invented the best possible response to anything The Big Bad posts.
- nutkase has a new alliance to go rogue on
- Legion's method of plugging the holes in their PR fjörd involves thumbs and anuses.
- NSO is soon to become a meme here.
[/quote]

Nippy just won this thread. Please lock.

[nutkase]

[quote name='nippy' timestamp='1309888014' post='2749521']
- nutkase has a new alliance to go rogue on
[/quote]

Just for information purposes, I have actually ever gone rogue once and that was after a specific person rather then an alliance.

[nippy]

[quote name='nutkase' timestamp='1309933296' post='2750177']
Just for information purposes, I have actually ever gone rogue once and that was after a specific person rather then an alliance.
[/quote]

Yeah, that was more of a gentle nudge in your direction than an actual accusation.

[USMC123]

[quote name='Jaiar' timestamp='1309891776' post='2749553']
Here NSO accuses Mr Damsky of spying. NSO has no actual proof of such spying. NSO slanders a member of Ronin. Hypocrisy.
[/quote]

I have something for you.

[img]http://www.wholesalebarsupplies.com/images/fat-straws.jpg[/img]

[Rayvon]

[quote name='nutkase' timestamp='1309926786' post='2750048']
It all hinges on the sole fact of the general dislike of Legion and NpO.

General population dislike NpO therefor accept VE's CB as a valid one, general population dislike Legion therefor discredit it's own.

Nothing more then hypocrisy.
[/quote]

GP =/= NSO
VE =/= NSO
NpO =/= NSO

It all hinged on Legion being willing and able to follow through. This issue was between NSO and Legion. And the next move hinged only on us - and not on anyone else. The hypocrisy of the GP is not our burden or concern.


[quote name='Chalaskan' timestamp='1309927252' post='2750054']
I don't think most are discrediting it really. I think it is just that everyone knows if allies were drawn in who would win this war. [b]And there is one particular ally that people have a keen eye on.[/b] I imagine all of Legions allies are praying they don't take a swing at NSO, while NSO has a few allies that are foaming at the mouth for one of their allies to jump into they frey so they can jump them.

From what I've seen there have been a fair amount of people flat out saying this is a solid CB.

Kinda like the 15 year old kid picking on another one with his 20 year old body builder brother sitting behind him smiling. I would love to see a 1v1 war, no elevation.

Regardless, Legion should take a punch.
[/quote]

And to which ally are you referring?


[quote name='Jaiar' timestamp='1309928323' post='2750073']
If members of your alliance did not spy on Legion themselves, where did they get the spy reports?

If they accepted the spy reports directly from the person(s) that spied then it basically becomes the same situation as why VE declared on Polar.

So it cannot be both ways. Either accepting information is bad or it isn't. People cannot agree with VE then and hail NSO now for posting spy reports.

Well, I guess people certainly can as the hypocrisy in this world knows no bounds.
[/quote]

You really are trying hard. Perhaps you'd find yourself more comfortable in Polar?

The Sith stood (and for quite some time will) in disdain of the Entente. As I said above, the hypocrisy of the world is not our burden or concern.

[FeaR_LeSs]

Legion if you're not going to declare theres not point of fighting as you continue to look like pansies

[ChairmanHal]

[quote name='The Corrupt Teacher' timestamp='1309890022' post='2749543']
Freedom of information is important. Heck isn't that why we fought Karma to protect the right to freedom of information? [/quote]

That's an interesting perspective from someone in the alliance where is fairly easy to see who is on Severe threat level (and perhaps spying) and who isn't.

[Trolumel]

[quote name='Mr Damsky' timestamp='1309916416' post='2749895']
Are you trying to suggest that the Defender of Legion faked the images?

Do not worry, I have discussed this with him and he has granted me photographic evidence of the reports. Of course some minimal editing had to take place to protect his identity.

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/715/spyop1.png/
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/534/spyop2.png/
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/838/spyop3.png/
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/121/spyop4.png/
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/64/spyop5.png/
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/830/spyop6.png/
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/35/spyop7.png/
[/quote]


This is completely and totally unacceptable. I demand your source pay reparations by being slapped in the face a dozen times. The nerve. He didn't even bother to spy me! And I just got out of the damn shower an hour ago, too. They're going to have to wait until tomorrow to get another glimpse of my awesomeness, dammit.