New Treaty Announcement

[HalfEmpty]

[quote name='Captain Flinders' timestamp='1295098338' post='2575989']
And people keep saying TPF has changed. I'm certainly not convinced.

(cue twenty people telling me that one opinion doesn't represent the alliance, therefore reinforcing my initial statement)
[/quote]

My work here is done.

Thanks for your help.

[Daeryon]

[quote name='Owned-You' timestamp='1295063098' post='2575690']
Your side is members of the previous establishment; popularly known as the Ex. Hegemony. It has however evolved over time and developed a few new additons and lost various old ones; however this is ultimately irrelevant. Those not directly allied to my alliance are not my enemies, they are simply other alliances in this game. Those whom have battled my side in the past however will remain an enemy until proper measures to mend relations have been made. That said, we are in fact aware of the menace within our halls; Athenian treachery knows no bounds...just ask =LOST=.

As for Slayer, he is the only real figure I can note of from TPF aside from The Big Bad (whom I don't have a single problem with). So until someone else steps up to do enough good deeds to counter-act all of his failings in my mind I'll always have a negative viewing of you. This is not a sleight against any of you, as I don't know you or anyone else from TPF aside from limited interactions in another realm. It is however the simple truth from an average old-members of Planet Bob.

Lastly, I didn't say the date of an inevitable clash would be soon. Rather it could be years from now (in which case I won't be around for it). Furthermore, it isn't meaning that you or any actions related to the TPF will be a direct cause of a war; rather this is accepting the nature that every alliance is tied together under some treaty. So thus with you all being so intimately tied with those whom will oppose us it is inevitable. It's a simple concept to understand; and it's one that has been ever constant for years and years.[/quote]

Well I hate to break it to you, but there is no "Ex Hegemony'. Seriously. It's a phony boogeyman. If such a thing existed this game would be a lot more interesting, but anything resembling the Hegemony died a long time ago.

I understand what you are saying about Slayer, but think of it this way. The Big Bad hasn't been part of this alliance for some time either. Do you still associate us with "The Big Bad Empire of the North"? Give us credit for everything he does/did? Of course not..because The Big Bad (like Slayer) has moved on to other things.

As for the "clash", I really think you are looking in the wrong place. When things break down on Bob it'll break down from within the ruling coalition IMO, not from without. And war makes strange bedfellows when the treaty web changes. Don't assume we'll always be enemies. The only way to assure that is to continue to view and treat us as such.

[quote]
Firstly, I was a member of NSO during the Karma war. So while I did fight get some TPF nations in it; it was not enough to relieve my grudge held against his actions. I suppose I'm a vengeful person; but I digress. As I stated in the post responding to Daeryon until I see something of note to make up for Slayer 99 nearly destroying my alliance that I founded (NV), and in fact destroying the alliance which gave me a start in this very game (NoR) I cannot in good faith let it go. So please don't take my actions or statements as representative of MK's as a whole; for I am uniquely differed from MK being a newer member of it and one of much more seniority then most in CN as a whole.
[/quote]
I'd say you are misdirecting your anger. Slayer99 is long gone. You may have your reasons for being mad at him, but to hold TPF accountable for him years after the fact is a bit unfair IMO. A good portion of our membership never even knew Slayer, nor were I'd dare to say MOST involved in attacks on NV or NoR. How many years ago was that now?

[quote name='Azaghul' timestamp='1295063945' post='2575709']
I doubt many MK members care about or even remember what Slayer99 did. The bigger issue is that you're alliance is still an NPO satellite.

Edit: grammar
[/quote]

NPO are great friends to TPF. That's far more than I can say about most. Great friends are worthy of cooperation and respect. Maybe your alliance should spend more time being good friends to people, and less time complaining about treaties that really....don't really involve you.

[quote name='HeroofTime55' timestamp='1295067286' post='2575753']
There is far too much bashing of Slayer99 in this thread. He was a great man. Made a huge number of enemies, he did, but he was a great man.

Those in TPF, who are brushing him aside like you are, should be ashamed of yourselves.

That's not to say TPF is not a vastly different, even better alliance now than it was in the ancient times, but for the love of Admin show some respect.
[/quote]

Who in TPF isn't showing Slayer respect? We're just pointing out, he's not here any more. He's not leading us any more. He's not part of our alliance any more. To continue to associate us with him all this time after he left is silly, and petty.

[quote name='Captain Flinders' timestamp='1295098338' post='2575989']
And people keep saying TPF has changed. I'm certainly not convinced.

(cue twenty people telling me that one opinion doesn't represent the alliance, therefore reinforcing my initial statement)
[/quote]

Why? Because some of us liked Slayer? While it's obvious you didn't, those who actually knew the guy will generally tell you he was a good guy, a lot of fun, and really in many ways a great addition to this game. Slayer was BIG into the roleplay of himself as an Evil Overlord. The real Slayer was really quite different from the way he presented himself on the OWF. He also did A LOT for TPF. If you are going to hold TPF in a bad light because we actually DARED like a guy who did a lot for us all I don't know what to say.

But again, Slayer is gone. Like him or not. And he has been for a long time now. It's time to get over it

[Kilkenny]

[quote name='HeroofTime55' timestamp='1295067286' post='2575753']
There is far too much bashing of Slayer99 in this thread. He was a great man. Made a huge number of enemies, he did, but he was a great man.

Those in TPF, who are brushing him aside like you are, should be ashamed of yourselves.

That's not to say TPF is not a vastly different, even better alliance now than it was in the ancient times, but for the love of Admin show some respect.
[/quote]


I don't think anyone from TPF is here bashing Slayer99. Yes he was a great man who did a lot for TPF and CN while he was here, and yes you either loved him or hated him...there was no in between with Slayer99.

But the fact still remains that he is gone, long gone. A lot has happened since that time both in TPF and CN. We have been through 3 wars, beat down in Karma, and yet people still hate us for someone who has gone on to another place, and a war that took place years ago under a vastly different leadership.

TBH, to those of you hate us because of stuff that happened so long ago, if you expect us to care and tremble at your hatred...... keep waiting. We really don't care what you think. Esp those of you who have taken no intrest/effort to get to know anyone who is currently in TPF, if it helps you to hate those who have moved on....I am sure Slayer99 chuckles at the thought of those who are still hating him after all these years.


In anycase, this Treaty came about from GENUINE effort from both parties to look past actions that happened years ago. As a result we were able to forge a freindship that is now recognized publicly by this treaty. I look forward to a future by STA's side.

[youwish959]

[quote name='Captain Flinders' timestamp='1295098338' post='2575989']
And people keep saying TPF has changed. I'm certainly not convinced.

(cue twenty people telling me that one opinion doesn't represent the alliance, therefore reinforcing my initial statement)
[/quote]
I see your still bitter. Oh well... I enjoyed my time reading your disbandment notice.

[Captain Flinders]

[quote name='Daeryon' timestamp='1295109058' post='2576074']
Why? Because some of us liked Slayer? While it's obvious you didn't, those who actually knew the guy will generally tell you he was a good guy, a lot of fun, and really in many ways a great addition to this game.[/quote]
He did some deplorable and underhanded things. Not even from a moralist standpoint. From a logical, respect for the world kind of standpoint. You'll stand up for him now but back when he first left and mhawk took over the line of "he's not in government anymore, we should not be held responsible for his actions" or something like it was tossed around quite a bit. At least stick with one defense. Honor when convenient sounds like the same old TPF to me. Slayer driven or otherwise.

[quote]The real Slayer was really quite different from the way he presented himself on the OWF. He also did A LOT for TPF. If you are going to hold TPF in a bad light because we actually DARED like a guy who did a lot for us all I don't know what to say.
[/quote]
OOC: I understand that most people, while possibly malicious in game, are rather agreeable out of character. Such was the case with Slayer and I did speak with him about such things. I respected him as a player OOC. Mind you, that's not a distinction he would afford NoV at that time...

[quote name='youwish959' timestamp='1295110343' post='2576101']
I see your still bitter. Oh well... I enjoyed my time reading your disbandment notice.
[/quote]
Meh, the disbandment was certainly not cheered by me (in fact I actively campaigned against it) and I certainly never surrendered to anyone at any point. Considering where we are today and where TPF is today, while the war was an absolute affront to all decency, it was a speedbump in the grand scheme of the Nordland.

But I certainly don't want to distract from your fancy new treaty and all. I certainly didn't intend to get in a pissing match. Just throwing in my two cents.

Edited January 15, 2011 by Captain Flinders

[Kilkenny]

[quote name='Captain Flinders' timestamp='1295111961' post='2576121']
He did some deplorable and underhanded things. Not even from a moralist standpoint. From a logical, respect for the world kind of standpoint. [b]You'll stand up for him now but back when he first left and mhawk took over the line of "he's not in government anymore, we should not be held responsible for his actions"[/b] or something like it was tossed around quite a bit. At least stick with one defense. Honor when convenient sounds like the same old TPF to me. Slayer driven or otherwise.
[/quote]


Our stance has always been the same, including now. Slayer99 is no longer part of TPF. Sorry you didn't get the great revenge you planned against him, but oh well.

No one is even defending some actions he took, that have since been apologized for. We have chosen to move on and not judge him by cetain actions, but by Slayer99 as a whole. If you can't move on, and it sounds like you can't...too bad for you.

[Proximo]

Nice treaty of convenience!

[kevin32891]

[quote name='Proximo' timestamp='1295116017' post='2576181']
Nice treaty of convenience!
[/quote]

This is quite funny coming from you since your alliance jumped to MK.
[img]http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/9595/1293764058297.gif[/img]

[Proximo]

[quote name='kevin32891' timestamp='1295116844' post='2576191']
This is quite funny coming from you since your alliance jumped to MK.
[img]http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/9595/1293764058297.gif[/img]
[/quote]

I'm just saying what STA said about our treaty with MK, buddy. Nothing serious, doncha know?

[kevin32891]

[quote name='Proximo' timestamp='1295117006' post='2576197']
I'm just saying what STA said about our treaty with MK, buddy. Nothing serious, doncha know?
[/quote]

Doesn't change the fact that he's correct.

[Proximo]

[quote name='kevin32891' timestamp='1295117396' post='2576198']
Doesn't change the fact that he's correct.
[/quote]

So only STA and TPF get to buddy after being rivals??? I hate double standards.

[Kilkenny]

[quote name='kevin32891' timestamp='1295116844' post='2576191']
This is quite funny coming from you since your alliance jumped to MK.
[img]http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/9595/1293764058297.gif[/img]
[/quote]


Ok, that was tooo funny!!!!

[Alterego]

[quote name='Owned-You' timestamp='1295063098' post='2575690']
Your side is members of the previous establishment; popularly known as the Ex. Hegemony. [/quote]

You mean intentionally branded that by you and your cronies to make sure certain alliances remain outside the blob. Fyi there is a growing number of ex-hegemony alliances (is it a dozen yet?)inside the new hegemony. At what point do you become the hegemony or ex-hegemony? From what ive seen even if every one joined the blob the world outside the blob would be called the space hegemony previously occupied.

[Haflinger]

[quote name='Daeryon' timestamp='1295109058' post='2576074']
But again, Slayer is gone. Like him or not. And he has been for a long time now. It's time to get over it
[/quote]
Well, speaking for myself, I couldn't stand Slayer. It was a good thing when he stopped being a big part of TPF, he drove some good people away from your alliance.

But yeah, I let go of my grudge against him quite a long time ago

[Geoffron X]

[quote name='Proximo' timestamp='1295117525' post='2576201']
So only STA and TPF get to buddy after being rivals??? I hate double standards.
[/quote]
STA and TPF did it after a long, long period of reconciliation. TOP and MK did it immediately after reps. There's some differences there.[quote name='Proximo' timestamp='1295117525' post='2576201']
So only STA and TPF get to buddy after being rivals??? I hate double standards.
[/quote]

[Alterego]

[quote name='Geoffron X' timestamp='1295118385' post='2576210']
STA and TPF did it after a long, long period of reconciliation. TOP and MK did it immediately after reps. There's some differences there.
[/quote]
True, MK gave us 2 years of %*@£ for signing with Valhalla about 6 months after that war. But like the sigs say its different when MK do it.

Edited January 15, 2011 by Alterego

[kevin32891]

[quote name='Proximo' timestamp='1295117525' post='2576201']
So only STA and TPF get to buddy after being rivals??? I hate double standards.
[/quote]

NSO and TPF fought each other in the "Karma War", yet we have a treaty with one another. And I'm sorry for my suspicion of your treaty with MK its just weird. You guys preemptive attacked MK in "Bipolar" and that ended almost 9 months. In a world where people hold grudges for a long time here its hard to believe your treaty with MK was just out of pure friendship.

Edited January 15, 2011 by kevin32891

[memoryproblems]

[quote name='Captain Flinders' timestamp='1295098338' post='2575989']
And people keep saying TPF has changed. I'm certainly not convinced.

(cue twenty people telling me that one opinion doesn't represent the alliance, therefore reinforcing my initial statement)
[/quote]

Frankly, who cares if your convinced or not.

At the end of the day, you don't make the world turn, and to be completely honest, I'm somewhat suspicious that your dislike for Slayer is nothing more then a symptom of his rejecting your attempts at friendship, but hey, whos to say...

But you know, people can only say they've changed so much, (and that applies to alot of alliances), but eventually actions are going to start speaking where words can't. At the end of the day, people are going to need to either open their eyes and see what is right in front of their noses or continue a grudge based off a dislike for somebody who hasn't played the game in ages.

Thats a personal decision which players will need to make for themselves, I trust that that they'll make the right move.

[SirWilliam]

[quote name='Geoffron X' timestamp='1295118385' post='2576210']
There's some differences there.
[/quote]

Yes, mainly that it took STA and TPF far, far longer to reconcile than it did MK and TOP. Regardless, that has little bearing really on whether either relationship is one of convenience or the level of meaningfulness of either.

Edited January 15, 2011 by SirWilliam

[Feanor Noldorin]

[quote name='kevin32891' timestamp='1295116844' post='2576191']
This is quite funny coming from you since your alliance jumped to MK.
[img]http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/9595/1293764058297.gif[/img]
[/quote]
MK jumped first and then a split second later we jumped aswell. Your picture is inaccurate.

[img]http://ordoparadox.com/top/public/style_emoticons/default/colbert.gif[/img]

Edited January 15, 2011 by Feanor Noldorin

[Azaghul]

[quote name='WorldConqueror' timestamp='1295085894' post='2575938']
Oh? I've lost count of the times I've heard 'lol we dont care about NPO they are too irrelevant now lol' from MK. Interesting to see such a 180.[/quote]
No we aren't obsessed with you like you are with us (see Sir Paul's official publications for evidence), but it's not exactly a secret that we'd love to roll you.

[quote name='Daeryon' timestamp='1295109058' post='2576074']
NPO are great friends to TPF. That's far more than I can say about most. Great friends are worthy of cooperation and respect. Maybe your alliance should spend more time being good friends to people, and less time complaining about treaties that really....don't really involve you.[/quote]
Oh we have our friends.

Who is complaining?

[quote name='Geoffron X' timestamp='1295118385' post='2576210']
STA and TPF did it after a long, long period of reconciliation. TOP and MK did it immediately after reps. There's some differences there.[/quote]
It started long before reps. I'd say it started when MK and TOP members had a lot of fun fighting each other.

[Azaghul]

[quote name='kevin32891' timestamp='1295117396' post='2576198']
Doesn't change the fact that he's correct.
[/quote]
I'm laughing at the fact that you actually think that treaty was guaranteeing anyone's security.

Edited January 15, 2011 by Azaghul

[kevin32891]

[quote name='Azaghul' timestamp='1295122595' post='2576264']
I'm laughing at the fact that you actually think that treaty was guaranteeing anyone's security.
[/quote]

I'm not saying "anyone's" I'm saying MK and TOP.

[WorldConqueror]

[quote name='Azaghul' timestamp='1295122488' post='2576262']
No we aren't obsessed with you like you are with us (see Sir Paul's official publications for evidence), but it's not exactly a secret that we'd love to roll you.
[/quote]
One, I'm not a Pacifican. Two, using Sir Paul's work as some kind of evidence that Pacifica is obsessed with you is ridiculous. He pretty much does his own thing, and due to MK's position at the centre of the vast interlocking web of power we see today, it's hardly surprising that you'd be a target in his publications. And three, so what's the problem? For all your posturing I see very little action on that front, lack of balls preventing your revenge?

[supercoolyellow]

[quote name='Captain Flinders' timestamp='1295098338' post='2575989']
And people keep saying TPF has changed. I'm certainly not convinced.

(cue twenty people telling me that one opinion doesn't represent the alliance, therefore reinforcing my initial statement)
[/quote]

You are absolutely correct,

Old TPF were not a bunch of a-holes who would sell out a former leader and throw him under the bus just to score PR points with you, and currently TPF is still not a bunch of a-holes who would sell out a former leader and throw him under the bus just to score PR points with you.

I can understand that you don't like TPF, b/c of your bad history with them, I get that. But you can't expect alliances to take a verbal dump on their former leadership, and the people who busted their butts to build the alliance. If they did do that, that wouldn't show "change" that would show an utter lack of character.

Edited January 15, 2011 by supercoolyellow