New Treaty Announcement

[WorldConqueror]

[quote name='chefjoe' timestamp='1295055126' post='2575572']
You are clearly projecting things into my post that arent there.....did I mention STA? I said 'others'.....interesting that you put yourself into that catagory though.
[/quote]
Your comment about political expediency, when placed in a thread like this, would imply that you view STA's and/or TPF's actions to be politically expedient. lrn2english

[Tygaland]

[quote name='WorldConqueror' timestamp='1295055510' post='2575575']Your comment about political expediency, when placed in a thread like this, would imply that you view STA's and/or TPF's actions to be politically expedient. lrn2english[/quote]

That and the fact he had earlier stated his opinion that the treaty was signed due to the STA fearing being "killed" which implies political expediency.

Unfortunately for Chefjoe, most people have the ability take an entire discussion into consideration when making a comment and don't forget what he has posted earlier when replying to his nonsense.

Edited January 15, 2011 by Tygaland

[WorldConqueror]

[quote name='Tygaland' timestamp='1295056628' post='2575598']
That and the fact he had earlier stated his opinion that the treaty was signed due to the STA fearing being "killed" which implies political expediency.

Unfortunately for Chefjoe, most people have the ability take an entire discussion into consideration when making a comment and don't forget what he has posted earlier when replying to his nonsense.
[/quote]
Yeah, I sometimes wonder if he really is that intellectually challenged, or he just thinks we all are and so assumes he can get away with it. Some of the stuff he comes out with is incredible.

[Geoffron X]

[quote name='chefjoe' timestamp='1295055126' post='2575572']
You are clearly projecting things into my post that arent there.....did I mention STA?
[/quote]
This is a thread about STA and TPF. Which one of those are you talking about?

[Daeryon]

[quote name='Owned-You' timestamp='1295038650' post='2575324']
I'm well aware that the both of you have mended relations to the point that you'd facilitate it with this treaty. I'm not stating opposition to that fact, rather I'm stating as an addendum to this treaty that your side has once more been interwoven into a political force through this and other recent treaties. Sure this isn't it's main intent, but that is the effect either way. Thus that is why I'm displeased with it. You also may be correct about you being changed and all, but I have a long memory and Slayer 99 is still locked away in it; until I forget about him or his antics I'll tend to hold a somewhat negative view on you all.

Lastly, what my statement means is our sides will clash sometime in the future. The divisions between political entities, ideologies, and other factors will lead to it. I'm only stating it and wishing my old friends in STA the best of luck with things; as I don't hate them. I simply recognize our paths diverging, much like Tyga recognizes it amongst countless others.

[font="arial, verdana, tahoma, sans-serif"][size="2"]
[/size][/font]
[font="arial, verdana, tahoma, sans-serif"][size="2"]This is true, but I don't see your point by stating the obvious. Our leadership deemed them an appropriate match for our liking, much like STA deemed TPF worthy for theirs. In this case, I dislike their choice on it and I stated it. Back then, they didn't like our choice and stated it as well. Evidently I respect them for it and they seemingly respect my postings here as well. [/size][/font]
[/quote]

Well that certainly didn't clear up any misunderstanding or disheartenment.

I don't know what you are referring to as my "side", unless you are referring to TPF and her allies, and I assure you, we are not nearly powerful enough to cause any problems to the immense coalition your alliance is part of, even if we did intend to do so.

My best guess is that you are assuming my "side" is all those alliances that used to be part of the Hegemony, or that my "side" is anyone and everyone not affiliated with your alliance? Either way, you'd be wrong. My "side" is TPF, and her allies, of which per this thread we gained another great one. If you are referring to us all I can say is you are looking in the wrong place. When trouble comes to you it will come from another direction.

Slayer99 (peace be upon him), is no longer part of TPF and has gone on to concern himself with other matters in some other world. I understand everyone still seeing Slayer within TPF (as...he was after all one of Bob's most infamous), but really...it's time to get over it. He's been gone a LONG time now.

I am however sorry to note that you feel that the Mushroom Kingdom will come into conflict with TPF and her allies some time soon. I don't know what we've done to deserve that in the past year, but it appears I can't expect any better.

[Vol Navy]

The only question I have is how on Earth is this politacally expediant for either side?

STA is closely allied to Polaris and everyone knows that MK/TOP and company are just waiting with baited breath to roll them at the drop of a hat.

We are allied to NPO, whom everyone also wants to find any reason to roll.

So politically speaking we gain another avenue for our destruction with this treaty.

Truth of the matter is, we don't care about that. We genuinuely like the STA and worked well with them on the TE front. We apoligized for actions that happened 2 or 3 years ago and STA accepted. We became friendly to this point and our sphere is all the better for it.

Yet even though we were rolled by MK for 3 months during Karma along with 4 or 5 other alliances some MK members still can't let go of Slayer99 despite him being gone from the planet for 2 years and won't accept that we are a dramatically different alliance than we were then.

Yet some from MK come in here and are critical of the STA for signing this treaty. Despite them uncerimoniously dumping a treaty with the STA that the STA had stood behind through thick and thin and MK signing one with TOP who screwed MK and the STA over far more recently than the Slayer99 UJP stuff that many are still butthurt over.

[Ragashingo]

I think Tygaland pretty much got it right. A lot of the critics in here are projecting. All this politically expedient stuff, or this "you changed" stuff just doesn't stick, at least not to us. Now if the claims were reversed... I was looking forward to your predicted conflict Owned-You, I live for the OWF debates and insults and burns of a good war, but I fear it might be quite boring for me if ya'll can't come up with some better arguments.

[Locke]

[quote name='Vol Navy' timestamp='1295059336' post='2575634']
The only question I have is how on Earth is this politacally expediant for either side?

STA is closely allied to Polaris and everyone knows that MK/TOP and company are just waiting with baited breath to roll them at the drop of a hat.

We are allied to NPO, whom everyone also wants to find any reason to roll.

So politically speaking we gain another avenue for our destruction with this treaty.
[/quote]
I'm not saying you signed for political reasons, mind you, but I disagree with your conclusion. You instead make it just that much harder to accomplish the destruction of either power sphere by linking them as such. Again, certainly not a prime consideration, perhaps not even one at all, in the signing of this, but a fact nonetheless.

[Owned-You]

[quote name='Daeryon' timestamp='1295059167' post='2575629']
Well that certainly didn't clear up any misunderstanding or disheartenment.

I don't know what you are referring to as my "side", unless you are referring to TPF and her allies, and I assure you, we are not nearly powerful enough to cause any problems to the immense coalition your alliance is part of, even if we did intend to do so.

My best guess is that you are assuming my "side" is all those alliances that used to be part of the Hegemony, or that my "side" is anyone and everyone not affiliated with your alliance? Either way, you'd be wrong. My "side" is TPF, and her allies, of which per this thread we gained another great one. If you are referring to us all I can say is you are looking in the wrong place. When trouble comes to you it will come from another direction.

Slayer99 (peace be upon him), is no longer part of TPF and has gone on to concern himself with other matters in some other world. I understand everyone still seeing Slayer within TPF (as...he was after all one of Bob's most infamous), but really...it's time to get over it. He's been gone a LONG time now.

I am however sorry to note that you feel that the Mushroom Kingdom will come into conflict with TPF and her allies some time soon. I don't know what we've done to deserve that in the past year, but it appears I can't expect any better.
[/quote]

Your side is members of the previous establishment; popularly known as the Ex. Hegemony. It has however evolved over time and developed a few new additons and lost various old ones; however this is ultimately irrelevant. Those not directly allied to my alliance are not my enemies, they are simply other alliances in this game. Those whom have battled my side in the past however will remain an enemy until proper measures to mend relations have been made. That said, we are in fact aware of the menace within our halls; Athenian treachery knows no bounds...just ask =LOST=.

As for Slayer, he is the only real figure I can note of from TPF aside from The Big Bad (whom I don't have a single problem with). So until someone else steps up to do enough good deeds to counter-act all of his failings in my mind I'll always have a negative viewing of you. This is not a sleight against any of you, as I don't know you or anyone else from TPF aside from limited interactions in another realm. It is however the simple truth from an average old-members of Planet Bob.

Lastly, I didn't say the date of an inevitable clash would be soon. Rather it could be years from now (in which case I won't be around for it). Furthermore, it isn't meaning that you or any actions related to the TPF will be a direct cause of a war; rather this is accepting the nature that every alliance is tied together under some treaty. So thus with you all being so intimately tied with those whom will oppose us it is inevitable. It's a simple concept to understand; and it's one that has been ever constant for years and years.

[font="arial, verdana, tahoma, sans-serif"][size="2"][quote name='Vol Navy' timestamp='1295059336' post='2575634']
Yet even though we were rolled by MK for 3 months during Karma along with 4 or 5 other alliances some MK members still can't let go of Slayer99 despite him being gone from the planet for 2 years and won't accept that we are a dramatically different alliance than we were then.

Yet some from MK come in here and are critical of the STA for signing this treaty. Despite them uncerimoniously dumping a treaty with the STA that the STA had stood behind through thick and thin and MK signing one with TOP who screwed MK and the STA over far more recently than the Slayer99 UJP stuff that many are still butthurt over.
[/quote]
I'm responding to these points because I feel they are either directed to me or related to my postings.[/size][/font]

Firstly, I was a member of NSO during the Karma war. So while I did fight get some TPF nations in it; it was not enough to relieve my grudge held against his actions. I suppose I'm a vengeful person; but I digress. As I stated in the post responding to Daeryon until I see something of note to make up for Slayer 99 nearly destroying my alliance that I founded (NV), and in fact destroying the alliance which gave me a start in this very game (NoR) I cannot in good faith let it go. So please don't take my actions or statements as representative of MK's as a whole; for I am uniquely differed from MK being a newer member of it and one of much more seniority then most in CN as a whole.

Furthermore, I agree that the manner in which we dropped STA (among everyone else for that matter) was atrociously delivered. In fact I don't think you'd find a single member in MK that would disagree that the events transpiring from _gunner_gate were handled in a proper manner. That being said, I was never screwed over by TOP thus why I don't see anything wrong with us signing with them; for like you and STA we found common grounds and mended bridges. Again, do not use my unique situation and perspective on things as a means of describing MK as a whole.

[font="arial, verdana, tahoma, sans-serif"][size="2"][quote name='Ragashingo' timestamp='1295061549' post='2575667']
I was looking forward to your predicted conflict Owned-You, I live for the OWF debates and insults and burns of a good war, but I fear it might be quite boring for me if ya'll can't come up with some better arguments.
[/quote]

[/size][/font]
I agree, it is always fun to engage in a debate respectfully. But this is a two-way street; and I can only argue with limited tools being an average MK'er. Unless you all provide me with something to discuss of course. So thus, we find common ground being bored with enemies that cannot keep up. It was much better when our enemies were mutual however; but I digress.

[Azaghul]

[quote name='Vol Navy' timestamp='1295059336' post='2575634']
Yet even though we were rolled by MK for 3 months during Karma along with 4 or 5 other alliances some MK members still can't let go of Slayer99 despite him being gone from the planet for 2 years and won't accept that we are a dramatically different alliance than we were then.[/quote]
I doubt many MK members care about or even remember what Slayer99 did. The bigger issue is that you're alliance is still an NPO satellite.


Edit: grammar

Edited January 15, 2011 by Azaghul

[WorldConqueror]

[quote name='Azaghul' timestamp='1295063945' post='2575709']
I doubt many MK members care about or even remember what Slayer99 did. The bigger issue is that your alliance is still an NPO satellite.
[/quote]
And yet most of you say you don't care about Pacifica any more.

[Branimir]

[quote name='WorldConqueror' timestamp='1295064799' post='2575724']And yet most of you say you don't care about Pacifica any more. [/quote]
Well, its no secret they rather we didn't had a treaty in the world so hence anybody having one with us is to be irrationally hated on. They rather treaty alliances that wanted to bloody them, then even consider talking to get to know alliances that have something to do with NPO.

As I am sure if they took the time, they would see that TPF is one cool alliance, even if not in MK's fan boys club house.

But hey, its just common knowledge and not exactly on topic.

Edited January 15, 2011 by Branimir

[HeroofTime55]

There is far too much bashing of Slayer99 in this thread. He was a great man. Made a huge number of enemies, he did, but he was a great man.

Those in TPF, who are brushing him aside like you are, should be ashamed of yourselves.

That's not to say TPF is not a vastly different, even better alliance now than it was in the ancient times, but for the love of Admin show some respect.

[Vol Navy]

[quote name='Locke' timestamp='1295062430' post='2575680']
I'm not saying you signed for political reasons, mind you, but I disagree with your conclusion. You instead make it just that much harder to accomplish the destruction of either power sphere by linking them as such. Again, certainly not a prime consideration, perhaps not even one at all, in the signing of this, but a fact nonetheless.
[/quote]


Even if the Order's spheres were linked the opposition is still vastly larger than both combined.

[Ragashingo]

[quote name='Owned-You' timestamp='1295063098' post='2575690']
...Everything...
[/quote]

Interesting post. I hope you can overcome your grudges though. There's a lot of good leaders scattered about our world, even in alliances that once did you wrong. To punish them for things they did in the past, especially after you got a war against them, is taking a grudge too far in my opinion. And yeah, it was nice when we were going after the same enemy. I think the trouble is we eventually got 'em. Now our paths have diverged. We're willing to forgive old wounds while ya'll are still looking for (more) revenge.

[Ragashingo]

[quote name='Azaghul' timestamp='1295063945' post='2575709']
I doubt many MK members care about or even remember what Slayer99 did. The bigger issue is that you're alliance is still an NPO satellite.
[/quote]

I'd really enjoy the NPO hate I'm seeing here if we were back in '08. Would have saved my former alliance a year of Viceroyship back then. But now it's just passe.

[Azaghul]

[quote name='WorldConqueror' timestamp='1295064799' post='2575724']
And yet most of you say you don't care about Pacifica any more.
[/quote]
Not quite true, actually.

[quote name='Branimir' timestamp='1295065429' post='2575735']
Well, its no secret they rather we didn't had a treaty in the world so hence anybody having one with us is to be irrationally hated on. They rather treaty alliances that wanted to bloody them, then even consider talking to get to know alliances that have something to do with NPO.

As I am sure if they took the time, they would see that TPF is one cool alliance, even if not in MK's fan boys club house.

But hey, its just common knowledge and not exactly on topic.[/quote]
Actually the fact that you have significant treaties just makes it more fun. Just because we bash and/or make fun of thoes ties doesn't mean that we don't want them to exist.

As for TPF, I like some individuals (there's one in particular I like a lot) and dislike others. In sum I'm relatively neutral towards TPF when looking at their alliance without considering their treaties, they are easily the best of NPO's close allies (admittedly that's not saying much). Treaties and relationships are about more than just "getting to know" someone. And holding a MADP with NPO is a lot stronger than just "having to do" with NPO. And that would prevent MK from having any kind of working relationship with TPF.

Edited January 15, 2011 by Azaghul

[Branimir]

[quote name='Ragashingo' timestamp='1295068019' post='2575763']I'd really enjoy the NPO hate I'm seeing here if we were back in '08. Would have saved my former alliance a year of Viceroyship back then. But now it's just passe.[/quote]
Hating NPO is fine But dismissing other people on the only basis that they have a good relationship with NPO is just silly.
[quote name='Azaghul' timestamp='1295068196' post='2575767']Actually the fact that you have significant treaties just makes it more fun. Just because we bash and/or make fun of thoes ties doesn't mean that we don't want them to exist.
.....
And holding a MADP with NPO is a lot stronger than just "having to do" with NPO. And that would prevent MK from having any kind of working relationship with TPF.[/quote]
All I am sayin' is just do not dismiss or degrade them because they have something to do with us, like calling them satellite implying as they are our vassals or something. At least, try to be more imaginative,... In the case of TPF, they really do not deserve that.

And that is all I really have to say about that, so to not drag out this too long as its a tangent.

[WorldConqueror]

[quote name='Azaghul' timestamp='1295068196' post='2575767']
Not quite true, actually.
[/quote]
Oh? I've lost count of the times I've heard 'lol we dont care about NPO they are too irrelevant now lol' from MK. Interesting to see such a 180.

[Bob Janova]

[quote]The only question I have is how on Earth is this politacally expediant for either side?

STA is closely allied to Polaris and everyone knows that MK/TOP and company are just waiting with baited breath to roll them at the drop of a hat.

We are allied to NPO, whom everyone also wants to find any reason to roll.

So politically speaking we gain another avenue for our destruction with this treaty.[/quote]
By linking the Orders' power spheres you (and NpO-Legion) make it much more difficult to roll either one. Yes, at the moment you do not have a large enough power base to do all that much, but it's a lot closer than either one of those two spheres on its own.

[memoryproblems]

[quote name='HeroofTime55' timestamp='1295067286' post='2575753']
There is far too much bashing of Slayer99 in this thread. He was a great man. Made a huge number of enemies, he did, but he was a great man.

Those in TPF, who are brushing him aside like you are, should be ashamed of yourselves.

That's not to say TPF is not a vastly different, even better alliance now than it was in the ancient times, but for the love of Admin show some respect.
[/quote]

I don't know, that Slayer99 guy ruined my chance at perfection in the TPF fantasy football league, thats as good as reason as any other not to like him, right? I mean, other people probably hate him for less.

[quote name='Bob Janova' timestamp='1295091408' post='2575959']
By linking the Orders' power spheres you (and NpO-Legion) make it much more difficult to roll either one. Yes, at the moment you do not have a large enough power base to do all that much, but it's a lot closer than either one of those two spheres on its own.
[/quote]

Surely that means that such a war would be a little longer and far more destructive, something that I like the sound of.

[Captain Flinders]

[quote name='HeroofTime55' timestamp='1295067286' post='2575753']
There is far too much bashing of Slayer99 in this thread. He was a great man.
[/quote]
No, no he wasn't.

[HalfEmpty]

[quote name='Captain Flinders' timestamp='1295092744' post='2575969']
No, no he wasn't.
[/quote]

Yes, yes he is.

/Firebell in the nitey nite nite.

Edited January 15, 2011 by HalfEmpty

[Captain Flinders]

[quote name='HalfEmpty' timestamp='1295098119' post='2575988']
Yes, yes he is.

/Firebell in the nitey nite nite.
[/quote]
And people keep saying TPF has changed. I'm certainly not convinced.

(cue twenty people telling me that one opinion doesn't represent the alliance, therefore reinforcing my initial statement)

Edited January 15, 2011 by Captain Flinders

[Lusitan]

[quote name='Bob Janova' timestamp='1295091408' post='2575959']
By linking the Orders' power spheres you (and NpO-Legion) make it much more difficult to roll either one. Yes, at the moment you do not have a large enough power base to do all that much, but it's a lot closer than either one of those two spheres on its own.
[/quote]

They're also a bigger and fatter target and it's much easier to roll both while only needing one CB from any of the countless incompetent alliances connected to them.