A Sad GOONS Announcement

[Leigon]

[quote name='flak attack' timestamp='1293153857' post='2552172']
Yeah, GOONS. It's our fault this treaty was cancelled, not the guy who actually chose to cancel it. Get with the program guys.
[/quote]

The guy who chose to cancel it has communicated his regret already though, while you on the other hand are mostly smug about the way this all played out. I haven't heard a word of MK about feeling sorry to have put goons in this position. And denying that you foresaw some trouble to come out of the MK/TOP treaty seems ridiculous considering the name.

Edited December 24, 2010 by Leigon

[lebubu]

[quote name='Leigon' timestamp='1293157947' post='2552213']
The guy who chose to cancel it has communicated his regret already though, while you on the other hand are mostly smug about the way this all played out. I haven't heard a word of MK about feeling sorry to have put goons in this position.
[/quote]

[quote name='lebubu' timestamp='1293149391' post='2552109']
I'm sorry to see you caught in the middle of this, GOONS.
[/quote]

Hope this helps.

[WarriorConcept]

[quote name='Leigon' timestamp='1293157947' post='2552213']
The guy who chose to cancel it has communicated his regret already though, while you on the other hand are mostly smug about the way this all played out. I haven't heard a word of MK about feeling sorry to have put goons in this position. And denying that you foresaw some trouble to come out of the MK/TOP treaty seems ridiculous considering the name.
[/quote]

Why would MK feel sorry that they signed a treaty with an alliance they're friends with? GOONS has no issue with TOP, GOD does. Trying to put the blame on MK here is laughable, truth be told.

[MagicalTrevor]

[quote name='Leigon' timestamp='1293157947' post='2552213']
The guy who chose to cancel it has communicated his regret already though, while you on the other hand are mostly smug about the way this all played out. I haven't heard a word of MK about feeling sorry to have put goons in this position. And denying that you must have foreseen some trouble to come out of the MK/TOP treaty seems ridiculous considering the name.
[/quote]
Just because you've not seen it in public doesn't mean it hasn't happened. Now i'm just a member but i'm sure we anticipated an issue with a few alliances, Umb & FoK spring to mind and i sincerely hope we had a dialogue over with them over this. But i don't understand why we should have been concerned over GODs reaction to this treaty. You are not our treaty partners and already have a tie of equal length to TOP. Some might argue a stronger tie due to IRON & TOPs relationship. As much as you like to tell yourself it's MKs fault for ignoring Xiph, you should instead be placing blame unto Xiph for expecting to be heard. He isn't the ruler of CN as he wishes and he sure as hell doesn't get a say in MKs Foreign Affairs decisions.

If this thread was about MK pressuring GOONS or anybodyelse into not signing a treaty the calls of "nothing has changed since karma" would be deafening.

As to the OP. I agree with your points Sardonic and as ever, i'm glad you're piloting the GOONS ship.

[The Big Bad]

That is quite a sob story there. Oh poor GOONS and that mean old Xiph. That is what were suppose to be thinking right? We are not. Do you know why? Because its Xiph. Is not like he has ever changed. Its not like he has just started making demands or throwing tantrums. He has been doing it long long before this version of GOONS was formed. He is the same Xiph you were happy to ally with to begin with. None of this is a secret. Xiph has not changed and now you act suprised. And it is an act, a rather poor one, so you can justify a public slander of your former ally. Its no secret that I have no love for Xiph but, what you are doing here is just an embarrasment. It makes you look worse than him, and that is not easy. First PC and iFOK forced to run away from defending an ally and now GOONS reduced to begging for sympathy because Xiph was mean to them. I do not know what is going on with that mess of a bloc but I suggest FOK and VE get out before they catch it as well.

[Bodvar Jarl]

[quote name='Leigon' timestamp='1293157947' post='2552213']
The guy who chose to cancel it has communicated his regret already though, while you on the other hand are mostly smug about the way this all played out. I haven't heard a word of MK about feeling sorry to have put goons in this position. And denying that you must have foreseen some trouble to come out of the MK/TOP treaty seems ridiculous considering the name.
[/quote]

You are playing way too much into the name. Someone on MK's forum thought the name to be fitting, considering the history between MK and TOP, and us Paradoxians can never get enough PI references in our treaties.

Also, if I were MK, I would not be sorry about putting GOONS in this position because I frankly would not see it as me being the ones forcing this on them.

[anenu]

[quote name='Aeternos Astramora' timestamp='1293157520' post='2552208']
TOP-IRON-R&R-GOD is why I don't get this move. Am I to guess that GOD will either kick R&R out of SF or leave SF?

+1 for GOONS
[/quote]

I would assume that either GOD is planning on leaving SF or R&R is or else Xiph actually doesn't actually care about being indirectly allied to TOP in which case this entire thread would make no sense whatsoever.

[Geoffron X]

[quote name='Bodvar Jarl' timestamp='1293156227' post='2552196']
What this all comes down to is that Xiph is en route to build a GOD-NpO axis, or at least that's what it looks like,
[/quote]
If Xiphosis thinks he can ever have an "axis" with Polar, he's an idiot.

[Feanor Noldorin]

[quote name='Bodvar Jarl' timestamp='1293158634' post='2552220']
You are playing way too much into the name. Someone on MK's forum thought the name to be fitting, considering the history between MK and TOP, and us Paradoxians can never get enough PI references in our treaties.
[/quote]
Alittle credit would be nice when it comes to the name.

[kentsfield]

[quote name='Geoffron X' timestamp='1293159060' post='2552225']
If Xiphosis thinks he can ever have an "axis" with Polar, he's an idiot.
[/quote]
How many times must it be said that Xiphosis is not interested in collaborating with NpO to take over the world?

[Emperor Whimsical]

[quote name='Bodvar Jarl' timestamp='1293156227' post='2552196']


What this all comes down to is that Xiph is en route to build a GOD-NpO axis.
[/quote]

Staying away from TOP = Joining NpO? Can't we just like...stay away from you?

[Feanor Noldorin]

[quote name='Emperor Whimsical' timestamp='1293159934' post='2552232']
Staying away from TOP = Joining NpO? Can't we just like...stay away from you?
[/quote]
Nope, we're still three chains away from you.

[Banksy]

[quote name='Leigon' timestamp='1293152764' post='2552164']
Has Goons been treated roughly? Absolutely, but not only by GOD. MK knew exactly how Xiph would react to this. They helped put Goons and GOD in a position where our different takes on foreign affairs would pull us apart. [/quote]
Yes, we at MK plan our foreign affairs based on Xiph's mood swings. We should have altered [i]our[/i] course and known that an irrelevant third party would spit the dummy. MK should have bowed down to someone we're not even connected to.

Your acronym has clearly muddled with your perception of the world if you think a half-baked alliance on maroon has the right to dictate a perceived "side's" FA plans. And the fact you think you had the right to demand ultimatums from GOONS, making them tell us who we can and cannot become an ally with [because of Xiph's infatuation with an almost two year old war] simply shows how laughably arrogant you have become. What a great ally you are.

GOD cancelled on GOONS because you couldn't get your way, and so Xiph decided to 'punish' those who didn't listen to him.

<Xiphosis[GOD]> and yet I'm disregarded
<Xiphosis[GOD]> on every
<Xiphosis[GOD]> !@#$@#$
<Xiphosis[GOD]> front

[img]http://www.teddybearsforhope.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/teddy-bear.jpg[/img]

[Khyber]

[quote name='kentsfield' timestamp='1293159421' post='2552227']
How many times must it be said that Xiphosis is not interested in collaborating with NpO to take over the world?
[/quote]

I hope your wrong. These silly wars we are seeing that no one wants to get involved in are just a pass time before the big show, normally perpetrated by a dumb alliance (NEW in this case). If this is all just for Xiphosis to make large allies and sit on them doing nothing, then I long for the NPO day. The bad old days. The all-or-nothing days. Even if it means getting ZIed by them two more times at least I got a war every 6 months rather then a year, and people were always working to take down someone for some BS reason of wrong doing, but it was fun.

I don't have the patience for the lets not do anything with all the power and allies I've made. I hope your wrong kentsfield, and what your saying is simply spin.

[General Scipio]

[quote name='Emperor Whimsical' timestamp='1293159934' post='2552232']
Staying away from TOP = Joining NpO? Can't we just like...stay away from you?
[/quote]
Except you're literally the same distance from TOP as you were a month ago. The only difference is you lost a good ally for no reason. Truly a masterplan.

[Emperor Whimsical]

[quote name='Banksy' timestamp='1293160136' post='2552235']
Yes, we at MK plan our foreign affairs based on Xiph's mood swings. We should have altered [i]our[/i] course and known that an irrelevant third party would spit the dummy. MK should have bowed down to someone we're not even connected to.

Your acronym has clearly muddled with your perception of the world if you think a half-baked alliance on maroon has the right to dictate a perceived "side's" FA plans. And the fact you think you had the right to demand ultimatums from GOONS, making them tell us who we can and cannot become an ally with [because of Xiph's infatuation with an almost two year old war] simply shows how laughably arrogant you have become. What a great ally you are.

GOD cancelled on GOONS because you couldn't get your way, and so Xiph decided to 'punish' those who didn't listen to him.

<Xiphosis[GOD]> and yet I'm disregarded
<Xiphosis[GOD]> on every
<Xiphosis[GOD]> !@#$@#$
<Xiphosis[GOD]> front

[img]http://www.teddybearsforhope.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/teddy-bear.jpg[/img]
[/quote]

You missed this part:

19:46:18 [Sardonic[GOONS]] that's terrific xiph but you know as well as I do that PB is build on unstable ground, and we can't dominate the world without you.
<Xiphosis[GOD]> and yet I'm disregarded
<Xiphosis[GOD]> on every
<Xiphosis[GOD]> !@#$@#$
<Xiphosis[GOD]> front

Half-baked, eh?

[Azaghul]

[quote name='Leigon' timestamp='1293157947' post='2552213']
The guy who chose to cancel it has communicated his regret already though, while you on the other hand are mostly smug about the way this all played out. I haven't heard a word of MK about feeling sorry to have put goons in this position. And denying that you foresaw some trouble to come out of the MK/TOP treaty seems ridiculous considering the name.
[/quote]
We knew Xiphosis wouldn't like it. We didn't think he'd be so childish is to take it out on one of our mutual allies. MK didn't bring GOONS into this situation. GOD did by insisting on punishing someone to "make a statement".


BTW commenting on other discussion here: The R&R/IRON connection to TOP is actually a stronger connection than this was, as they have a MADP with R&R, while they only had a MDoAP with GOONS. There are still numerous connections between GOD and TOP, both via MK and R&R, so I'm not buying the idea that GOD is just making a normal foreign policy move and "choosing their allies" by doing this. It wasn't about not wanting indirect ties to TOP, which still exist. It was about feeling the need to throw a fit and "punish" someone because MK didn't play along with how GOD wants things to happen.

[Banksy]

[quote name='Emperor Whimsical' timestamp='1293160402' post='2552242']
You missed this part:

19:46:18 [Sardonic[GOONS]] that's terrific xiph but you know as well as I do that PB is build on unstable ground, and we can't dominate the world without you.
<Xiphosis[GOD]> and yet I'm disregarded
<Xiphosis[GOD]> on every
<Xiphosis[GOD]> !@#$@#$
<Xiphosis[GOD]> front

Half-baked, eh?
[/quote]
And that refutes my statement that you dropped GOONS because you didn't get your way... how?

[Fernando12]

[quote name='Banksy' timestamp='1293160136' post='2552235']
Yes, we at MK plan our foreign affairs based on Xiph's mood swings. We should have altered [i]our[/i] course and known that an irrelevant third party would spit the dummy. MK should have bowed down to someone we're not even connected to.

Your acronym has clearly muddled with your perception of the world if you think a half-baked alliance on maroon has the right to dictate a perceived "side's" FA plans. And the fact you think you had the right to demand ultimatums from GOONS, making them tell us who we can and cannot become an ally with [because of Xiph's infatuation with an almost two year old war] simply shows how laughably arrogant you have become. What a great ally you are.

GOD cancelled on GOONS because you couldn't get your way, and so Xiph decided to 'punish' those who didn't listen to him.

<Xiphosis[GOD]> and yet I'm disregarded
<Xiphosis[GOD]> on every
<Xiphosis[GOD]> !@#$@#$
<Xiphosis[GOD]> front

[/quote]
Maybe you should talk with Impero because your portrayal of Xiph is creating a divide that is probably not wanted at this time. Impero made it very clear that a war over NEW would be difficult because of all the conflicting treaties. Yet, here you are creating tension that could push SF away. If VE/PB doesn't want a war that could pin them against SF I suggest they put a muzzle on the tough talking MKers.

I would find it hilarious if the PB bloc alliances are actually tight enough to where they agree to drop the treaties some have with MK. You guys are sure to be more trouble than you're worth. Where would you all run to then.

PB, get control of your bloc and shut MK the $%&@ up. Many see it as MK running PB now and they're not even in it.

Edited December 24, 2010 by Fernando12

[President S O]

[quote name='Azaghul' timestamp='1293160427' post='2552243']
We knew Xiphosis wouldn't like it. We didn't think he'd be so childish is to take it out on one of our mutual allies. MK didn't bring GOONS into this situation. GOD did by insisting on punishing someone to "make a statement".


BTW commenting on other discussion here: The R&R/IRON connection to TOP is actually a stronger connection than this was, [b]as they have a MADP with R&R[/b], while they only had a MDoAP with GOONS. There are still numerous connections between GOD and TOP, both via MK and R&R, so I'm not buying the idea that GOD is just making a normal foreign policy move and "choosing their allies" by doing this. It wasn't about not wanting indirect ties to TOP, which still exist. It was about feeling the need to throw a fit and "punish" someone because MK didn't play along with how GOD wants things to happen.
[/quote]

MADP? I believe the R&R/IRON treaty is MDP.

[Mixoux]

[quote name='Fernando12' timestamp='1293160845' post='2552246']
Maybe you should talk with Impero because your portrayal of Xiph is creating a divide that is probably not wanted at this time. Impero made it very clear that a war over NEW would be difficult because of all the conflicting treaties. Yet, here you are creating tension that could push SF away. If VE/PB doesn't want a war that could pin them against SF I suggest they put a muzzle on the tough talking MKers.
[/quote]

It's fine; this thread succeeded in burning any bridges SF and PB may have had with each other.

Edited December 24, 2010 by Mixoux

[In Spades]

[quote name='Sardonic' timestamp='1293082426' post='2551129']
This is utterly ridiculous Xiphosis.

Now first, a clarification. I am not in any way denying your right to choose your allies or your right to cancel on who you wish, such an argument would be blatantly hypocritical in light of what I am about to say. No, what I'm going to remark on is your controlling and callous nature that led you down this path, and "forced" you to take this action.

What gives you the right to decide the FA path of others? I say this because you explicitly told me that you expected me to prevent the TOP/MK treaty when you canceled on us. Your actions imply that you see no problem with forcing not only your allies to conform with your views, but our entire side. I couldn't and can't control what MK does, and even if I could, it wouldn't be right for me to do so. What you asked of us was too much, too far. Beyond the moral impossibility of what you ask, who are you to judge who is worthy of being on our side? As the leader of an alliance which was given a second chance I believe that everybody has the right to them; nobody is beyond redemption. Who are you to deny the mere possibility that an alliance has changed or mended their ways? Why is your view superior to MK's in deciding their own policy?

I for one choose freedom. The freedom to choose my allies, but only just, never choosing allies for my allies. That does not mean I would not give advice, advising against treaties that I felt would be to all of our detriments, but you know as well as I do that's not what you did. You laid out an ultimatum, a thing you sometimes claim so fervently to hate. You told MK "them or us". If there was any doubt in MK's mind at this point, you erased it. Your brash actions made the treaty that you fought so hard against come that much quicker.

So the treaty was posted, shortly thereafter you canceled on us. I don't believe for one instant that this was merely about not wanting to be tied, however indirectly, to TOP. After all, our treaty is non-chaining, and the links from you to TOP through us is just one less alliance hop than from you to NPO. This was about power for you, it always was. You saw one of the alliances of your "side" disobeying you, and could not punish them directly, so you came to us. Wonderful. It is clear to me now how little empathy you have for your allies, you merely wish to assemble a perfect collection of alliances.

A wise man once said to treat people as ends, not merely as means to an end. Well Xiph, you are treating all of us as means to your end. I hope you realize how you treat people and mend your ways.

-Sardonic, GOONS Pilot
[/quote]

Then ummmmmm, cancel without the little orphan annie diatribe?
[img]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c0/Crying-girl.jpg[/img]
I agree with why you're doing it and all... just sayin' that it makes you look like a crybaby !@#$%^

[Voytek]

[quote name='In Spades' timestamp='1293161320' post='2552250']
Then ummmmmm, cancel without the little orphan annie diatribe?
[img]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c0/Crying-girl.jpg[/img]
I agree with why you're doing it and all... just sayin' that it makes you look like a crybaby !@#$%^
[/quote]
GOD cancelled on GOONS.

[pd73bassman]

This was one of the best topics I have read in a long time, nice job GOONS for calling it how it is

Edited December 24, 2010 by pd73bassman

[In Spades]

[quote name='Voytek' timestamp='1293161408' post='2552251']
GOD cancelled on GOONS.
[/quote]
shows you how much I cared to skim