Dear VE, A dear message from TKTB's supposed spy

[Lord Curzon]

[quote name='NoFish' timestamp='1292577371' post='2541728']
I'm glad someone out there [i]gets it[/i]. I am sick and tired of reviled alliances like \m/ and NSO !@#$%*ing when people treat them unfairly because they don't like them. It turns out that if people like you they treat you better than if they hate you.
[/quote]

You catch more flies with honey... or so I hear.

[Locke]

[quote name='Lord Curzon' timestamp='1292577593' post='2541730']
You catch more flies with honey... or so I hear.
[/quote]
Actually, that's a lie.
[img]http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/flies.png[/img]
What other parts of your childhood should I ruin?

[zzzptm]

[quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1292567662' post='2541643']
Hoka-hey! My old friend, how are you? I am very glad to hear about your family's good news; you must be swelling with pride. We were having a nice discussion on current events and all until the "you suck" came up, so I do wish it hadn't been so, but Wakan Tanka willing maybe it will not be so in the future if the reply is too costly. Don't be a stranger and I'll do better to hold up my end.
[/quote]

Well, you've got a friend in me. And, no, I don't mean that as a prelude to a host of comments about how you're just a toy.

[Groucho Marx]

[quote name='NoFish' timestamp='1292577371' post='2541728']
I'm glad someone out there [i]gets it[/i]. I am sick and tired of reviled alliances like \m/ and NSO !@#$%*ing when people treat them unfairly because they don't like them. It turns out that if people like you they treat you better than if they hate you.
[/quote]

Regardless, a certain amount of tact is expected that wasn't shown. There isn't a thing we've done to VE to warrant them treating us like the dirt beneath their feet. We've always been cordial with them, the least they could do is return the favor.


And being lumped in with NSO is just insulting.

[AAAAAAAAAAGGGG]

[quote name='Emperor Marx' timestamp='1292605326' post='2541864']
And being lumped in with NSO is just insulting.
[/quote]

Well, you guys had just done your attacktorate thing with GGA, and even people who absolutely despised GGA thought was dumb. If you want to be treated like a world-class alliance, you gotta act like one. At that time you were worse than NSO.

[Enrage]

[quote name='AAAAAAAAAAGGGG' timestamp='1292616898' post='2541987']
Well, you guys had just done your attacktorate thing with GGA, and even people who absolutely despised GGA thought was dumb. If you want to be treated like a world-class alliance, you gotta act like one. At that time you were worse than NSO.
[/quote]

See what happens when you bully others that are less fortunate? A bigger bully comes to getcha

Karma's a [filter evasion removed]

Edited December 18, 2010 by Harry Dresden
Mod edit: filter evasion ftl

[potato]

[quote name='Enrage' timestamp='1292618950' post='2541996']
See what happens when you bully others that are less fortunate? A bigger bully comes to getcha

Karma's a [filter evasion removed]
[/quote]

So, what you're saying is that if you wait long enough, you'll be able to come and chant "TOLD YOU SO!"?

Edited December 18, 2010 by Harry Dresden
Mod edit: please don't quote bad language.

[NoFish]

[quote name='Emperor Marx' timestamp='1292605326' post='2541864']
Regardless, a certain amount of tact is expected that wasn't shown. There isn't a thing we've done to VE to warrant them treating us like the dirt beneath their feet. We've always been cordial with them, the least they could do is return the favor.


And being lumped in with NSO is just insulting.
[/quote]
I'm not defending the way VE handled the situation, since they themselves have admitted it was wrong, simply stating that it shouldn't come to you as a surprise given the way you've presented yourselves.

[Dochartaigh]

[quote name='AAAAAAAAAAGGGG' timestamp='1292616898' post='2541987']
Well, you guys had just done your attacktorate thing with GGA, and even people who absolutely despised GGA thought was dumb. If you want to be treated like a world-class alliance, you gotta act like one. At that time you were worse than NSO.
[/quote]

so raiding alliances is now a bad thing? or is it only when \m/ does it?

[TypoNinja]

[quote name='Dochartaigh' timestamp='1292622168' post='2542036']
so raiding alliances is now a bad thing? or is it only when \m/ does it?
[/quote]

Wasn't quite the same thing in that case.

[Schattenmann]

I can't wait to hear this one.

[Ogaden]

[quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1292534443' post='2541112']
My very existence is a refutation of everything that VE is, why bother with the battlefield? As long as VE does things like demand heads for spies while spying, sells its army to fight in wars based on things it claims to oppose, VE can expect to hear from me, and thus to all who do the same.

We didn't need Karma to share the Red Senate--we did it just the same as we did on the Green sphere. We didn't need Karma to create a Red alliance, we just did it. The answer to your question is yes. Shoulder to shoulder with men and women of bold character and iron will and unwavering resolve, I created the conditions to realize my vision, before Karma, after Karma. That is the difference. I created the conditions for my actualization post-Karma. You waited until you were granted permission.
[/quote]

I was a member of NPO before Karma and I proposed allowing red alliances to form without obliterating them as a means of strengthening the red sphere.

Not only was this proposal not popular, it was basically laughed out of the Body Republic.

Your alliance is on Red because of Karma. If you had formed CoJ on Red before Karma you would have been destroyed.

[AAAAAAAAAAGGGG]

[quote name='Dochartaigh' timestamp='1292622168' post='2542036']
so raiding alliances is now a bad thing? or is it only when \m/ does it?
[/quote]

If you can't tell the difference between a regular raid, and what \m/ did, you're pretty much beyond help.

[Schattenmann]

[quote name='James Dahl' timestamp='1292627946' post='2542086']
I was a member of NPO before Karma and I proposed allowing red alliances to form without obliterating them as a means of strengthening the red sphere.

Not only was this proposal not popular, it was basically laughed out of the Body Republic.

Your alliance is on Red because of Karma. If you had formed CoJ on Red before Karma you would have been destroyed.
[/quote]
You are incorrect. Vox Populi was a very prosperous Red alliance without regard to the Moldavi Doctrine and our Senate campaigns were very successful, and both were pre-Karma. Claim that I formed two revolutionary Red alliances? Don't mind if I do. [img]http://forums.coj-cn.co.cc/Smileys/expanded/frogdeal.png[/img]

[Dochartaigh]

[quote name='AAAAAAAAAAGGGG' timestamp='1292628160' post='2542089']
If you can't tell the difference between a regular raid, and what \m/ did, you're pretty much beyond help.
[/quote]

so if \m/ had not announced the attacktorate (which to my knowledge was supposed to just be funny) and raided GGA when they got out of protection, it would have been okay. but because they made a joke about it, it somehow became different? so no, i don't see the difference. sure \m/ made (in my opinion) a tasteless joke but nothing different than all those people who want sharkweek brought back.

see, this is why raiding alliances in and of itself is bad. you are attempting to draw some fine line to safeguard PC who has raided alliances (including a protectorate of TPF while TPF was stuck in a war) for laughs but somehow are stating that because \m/ did it to GGA, it is worse and therefore allows an alliance such as VE to act like utter dicks towards them.

[AAAAAAAAAAGGGG]

[quote name='Dochartaigh' timestamp='1292628951' post='2542096']
so if \m/ had not announced the attacktorate (which to my knowledge was supposed to just be funny) and raided GGA when they got out of protection, it would have been okay. but because they made a joke about it, it somehow became different? so no, i don't see the difference. sure \m/ made (in my opinion) a tasteless joke but nothing different than all those people who want sharkweek brought back.

see, this is why raiding alliances in and of itself is bad. you are attempting to draw some fine line to safeguard PC who has raided alliances (including a protectorate of TPF while TPF was stuck in a war) for laughs but somehow are stating that because \m/ did it to GGA, it is worse and therefore allows an alliance such as VE to act like utter dicks towards them.
[/quote]

What \m/ did was say "no one else can raid GGA unless you get our permission" then people told them it was tasteless, then they backed down when an alliance of substance showed real opposition to it (STA). So yes, if \m/ had done their raids after GGA's protection of Ronin and Gondor expired without making a fuss about with a "oh hey look at us, we're raiding GGA and you can't " demeanor, no one really would have cared except for the old-school GGAers. Instead they acted like their !@#$ didn't stink, and when VE goes to them saying that yes, their !@#$ does stink, in fact it reeks so bad that Prodigal_Chieftain's dead corpse could smell it, they shouldn't be shocked that someone called them out.

Ultimately, if \m/ had such a problem with VE, they should have resolved it back then instead of waiting 4 months to air dirty laundry in a thread not even related to them. Heck, they could have worked out something with their mutually ally in RoK. Impero was in a bad mood and whatnot, perhaps they could have tried later. They shouldn't garner any sympathy because they decided to lash out out of nowhere.

And raiding is fine if moderated. PC learned from their mistakes, and tightened up their raiding procedures since then. GOONS has done something similar. \m/ could have learned if they actually paid attention to what was going on and no one is going to look kindly upon raiding "with a silver spoon" so to speak.

[Caliph]

[quote name='AAAAAAAAAAGGGG' timestamp='1292630310' post='2542106']
What \m/ did was say "no one else can raid GGA unless you get our permission" then people told them it was tasteless, then they backed down when an alliance of substance showed real opposition to it (STA). So yes, if \m/ had done their raids after GGA's protection of Ronin and Gondor expired without making a fuss about with a "oh hey look at us, we're raiding GGA and you can't " demeanor, no one really would have cared except for the old-school GGAers. Instead they acted like their !@#$ didn't stink, and when VE goes to them saying that yes, their !@#$ does stink, in fact it reeks so bad that Prodigal_Chieftain's dead corpse could smell it, they shouldn't be shocked that someone called them out.

Ultimately, if \m/ had such a problem with VE, they should have resolved it back then instead of waiting 4 months to air dirty laundry in a thread not even related to them. Heck, they could have worked out something with their mutually ally in RoK. Impero was in a bad mood and whatnot, perhaps they could have tried later. They shouldn't garner any sympathy because they decided to lash out out of nowhere.

And raiding is fine if moderated. PC learned from their mistakes, and tightened up their raiding procedures since then. GOONS has done something similar. \m/ could have learned if they actually paid attention to what was going on and no one is going to look kindly upon raiding "with a silver spoon" so to speak.
[/quote]
We spent 2 weeks working with ROK about this issue. Hoo himself, along with other RC members of ROK, tried to get Impero to listen to reason and give us reps. When I say we exhausted diplomacy, I am not lying. We did everything that could be reasonably expected of any other alliance put in a similar situation.

I have already covered why we decided not to war with VE, and if you truly believe that would have been the best course of action please explain your reasoning here.

I only aired our dirty laundry for the world to see after VE tried saying that when they spy on others its fine, but if they are spied on its somehow a travesty.

As for the GGA thing, I actually agree with you. Had I been consulted about the GGA thing before we did it I would not have supported it.

Edited December 18, 2010 by Caliph

[Schattenmann]

[quote name='AAAAAAAAAAGGGG' timestamp='1292630310' post='2542106']

Ultimately, if \m/ had such a problem with VE, they should have resolved it back then instead of waiting 4 months to air dirty laundry in a thread not even related to them. Heck, they could have worked out something with their mutually ally in RoK. Impero was in a bad mood and whatnot, perhaps they could have tried later. They shouldn't garner any sympathy because they decided to lash out out of nowhere.

[/quote]

Have you been following this thread? Impero told Van Hoo up his nose with a rubber hose during his convenient week-long mystery migraine that was apparently also effecting the entire VE government which didn't step up while Fearless Leader was unfit to do his job.

Dear Biff, BaronofBeef, and/or MegaAros: If I ever have a medical condition that is causing me to condone acts of war against alliances by out-of-control Justitians please step in and make sure that this kind of mess doesn't happen in my organization.

The only difference between \m/'s raid joke and other smug raiders dehumanizing tactics is that their's was on the OWF. GOONS raided GGA twice, why don't you go lobby for a treaty cancellation since you care so much.

[Caliph]

[quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1292632219' post='2542134']
Have you been following this thread? Impero told Van Hoo up his nose with a rubber hose during his convenient week-long mystery migraine that was apparently also effecting the entire VE government which didn't step up while Fearless Leader was unfit to do his job.

Dear Biff, BaronofBeef, and/or MegaAros: If I ever have a medical condition that is causing me to condone acts of war against alliances by out-of-control Justitians please step in and make sure that this kind of mess doesn't happen in my organization.

The only difference between \m/'s raid joke and other smug raiders dehumanizing tactics is that their's was on the OWF. GOONS raided GGA twice, why don't you go lobby for a treaty cancellation since you care so much.
[/quote]
To be fair, other VE gov were contacted. They just said that they could not, and would not, override Impero's decision.

[Mirreille]

[quote name='Bill Wallace' timestamp='1292536747' post='2541148']
I imagine those who look up to you are disappointed with this statement. This only confirms what many of us already knew and that is you don't have the force of personality to change anything. Too bad.
[/quote]

Really? you choose to use this as an argument? Who do you think has the force of persnality to change things? Whenver I have seen someone try it, they went down in flames, from Doitzel to AlmightyGrub. The few who MIGHT have the ability to even think about it are either sitting on their hands, or out to pasture. At least Schattenmann is in there pitching!

[AAAAAAAAAAGGGG]

[quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1292632219' post='2542134']
The only difference between \m/'s raid joke and other smug raiders dehumanizing tactics is that their's was on the OWF. GOONS raided GGA twice, why don't you go lobby for a treaty cancellation since you care so much.
[/quote]

On to your first point, Caliph PM'd me privately and we discussed it, so it was an oversight on my part.

I never said I had a problem with raiding GGA. I might have raided GGA if there were members in my range (though many tech-hungry people probably would beat me to the punch anyways). Raiding is great. What annoyed me about what \m/ did was that they felt like they had to brag about it, and it was kind of hilarious in which everyone turned on them. I'm not really going to get into a [img]http://www.umbrella-alliance.com/style_emoticons/genmaycnsmilies/emot-qq.gif[/img] tech raiding is evil[img]http://www.umbrella-alliance.com/style_emoticons/genmaycnsmilies/emot-qq.gif[/img] argument since there's really no point to it. I couldn't care less if GOONS raided them. I'm not sure what you're trying to get at (nor do I really care much).

Edited December 18, 2010 by AAAAAAAAAAGGGG

[Jackie Moon]

[quote name='Caliph' timestamp='1292634419' post='2542174']
To be fair, other VE gov were contacted. They just said that they could not, and would not, override Impero's decision.
[/quote]

This man speaks truth.

[Dochartaigh]

[quote name='AAAAAAAAAAGGGG' timestamp='1292630310' post='2542106']
What \m/ did was say "no one else can raid GGA unless you get our permission" then people told them it was tasteless, then they backed down when an alliance of substance showed real opposition to it (STA). So yes, if \m/ had done their raids after GGA's protection of Ronin and Gondor expired without making a fuss about with a "oh hey look at us, we're raiding GGA and you can't " demeanor, no one really would have cared except for the old-school GGAers. Instead they acted like their !@#$ didn't stink, and when VE goes to them saying that yes, their !@#$ does stink, in fact it reeks so bad that Prodigal_Chieftain's dead corpse could smell it, they shouldn't be shocked that someone called them out.

Ultimately, if \m/ had such a problem with VE, they should have resolved it back then instead of waiting 4 months to air dirty laundry in a thread not even related to them. Heck, they could have worked out something with their mutually ally in RoK. Impero was in a bad mood and whatnot, perhaps they could have tried later. They shouldn't garner any sympathy because they decided to lash out out of nowhere.

And raiding is fine if moderated. PC learned from their mistakes, and tightened up their raiding procedures since then. GOONS has done something similar. \m/ could have learned if they actually paid attention to what was going on and no one is going to look kindly upon raiding "with a silver spoon" so to speak.
[/quote]

so basically when PC and GOONS both got butthurt over others telling them their raiding sucked and they spent a lot of time stating they were going to do as they please, they in fact meant the opposite. when did PC or GOONS actually tighten their raiding procedures? or did they just stop raiding large alliances like before?

and you really have not been paying attention since it was stated earlier that \m/ tried and tried and tried with VE and got nowhere. this is not out of just nowhere and VE has a lot to explain and does not appear to be doing so well at it. i have absolutely no love for \m/ and would love to see them crushed but in this instance VE and Impero are completely in the wrong and nothing you say will make it right. in fact, all you are saying is, it is okay to bully alliances if they are not well liked. glad to see if you are not well liked by PB; you can be bullied, spied on, and whatever else at will and because you are not well liked, that is a good enough reason for why whatever was done was done.

[Schattenmann]

[quote name='AAAAAAAAAAGGGG' timestamp='1292636764' post='2542205']
On to your first point, Caliph PM'd me privately and we discussed it, so it was an oversight on my part.

I never said I had a problem with raiding GGA. I might have raided GGA if there were members in my range (though many tech-hungry people probably would beat me to the punch anyways). Raiding is great. What annoyed me about what \m/ did was that they felt like they had to brag about it, and it was kind of hilarious in which everyone turned on them. I'm not really going to get into a [img]http://www.umbrella-alliance.com/style_emoticons/genmaycnsmilies/emot-qq.gif[/img] tech raiding is evil[img]http://www.umbrella-alliance.com/style_emoticons/genmaycnsmilies/emot-qq.gif[/img] argument since there's really no point to it. I couldn't care less if GOONS raided them. I'm not sure what you're trying to get at (nor do I really care much).
[/quote]

Oh, I see. You don't like pompous raiders. As I said, perhaps you should start lobbying your government about your current treaty situation with GOONS.
http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?app=blog&module=display&section=blog&blogid=341&showentry=1733
http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?app=blog&module=display&section=blog&blogid=341&showentry=1743
http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?app=blog&module=display&section=blog&blogid=341&showentry=2091

Don't waste the good people's time with smokescreens. If you don't like \m/, be a big boy and just say you don't like \m/ and that because you don't like them it doesn't matter how right they are or how wrong someone else is against \m/, that you simply will not apply your sliding scale to them favorably. We can understand that better, and tolerate it more than these silly word games.

[Cobalt]

[quote name='Dochartaigh' timestamp='1292648459' post='2542335']
and you really have not been paying attention since it was stated earlier that \m/ tried and tried and tried with VE and got nowhere. this is not out of just nowhere and VE has a lot to explain and does not appear to be doing so well at it. i have absolutely no love for \m/ and would love to see them crushed but in this instance VE and Impero are completely in the wrong and nothing you say will make it right.[/quote]

I too can discuss past events as if they are still happening.

[quote] in fact, all you are saying is, it is okay to bully alliances if they are not well liked. glad to see if you are not well liked by PB; you can be bullied, spied on, and whatever else at will and because you are not well liked, that is a good enough reason for why whatever was done was done.[/quote]

You forgot to add that VE is the new NPO and PB is the new Q and that Karma was a lie.

Also, if PB just rolled and harass anyone they didn't like there would probably be a lot more war going on right now and we'd all be happier (PB would have a war, the moralist brigade would have something new to obsess over), however that's not the case. PB is pretty much a passive entity and has not as of yet gone into any action; of its own accord or through provocation.

After we initiate secret plan Epsilon Beta Iota Lambda and wipe out everyone who doesn't bow down before the blood god, completely unopposed because we've bullied the world into submission ... you can call us the evil empire all you want.