Backroom Extortion is Back

[Omniscient1]

So wait all I have to do to get an alliance I don't like rolled is to scam MK and still have some sort of proof of membership? I think I still have access to a few alliances private channels? Will that work?

[Earl Dumarest]

[quote name='Lusitan' timestamp='1289232327' post='2506120']
Iron Curtain actually.
[/quote]

Ha Ha! Thanks! Silly me, misled by a forum sig. NOW I understand.

[tamerlane]

[quote name='Ivan Moldavi' timestamp='1289234943' post='2506185']
Isn't it always? You are the one responding and making direct comments towards me and my past actions. I did no such thing except in response to you and others.

If you don't want to feed my ego, don't leave the food on the counter.

I commented expressly on my opinion of the issues and Cager's crying about the backroom dealings being made public.
[/quote]

Its called moderation, Ivan. Just because there if food on the counter doesn't mean you have to eat every morsel. Nevertheless, I recant. Im glad you found the time to embrace the horrible things said about you and respond to them but the issue here is the rust on what was a fine trade deal.

Im gonna use a metaphor here.

Say I wanted to buy a car and went to a used car lot. I go there and I buy a car from an employee donned in all the finest dealership apparel replete with name tag. I pay the cost of the car, in full, drive it off the lot to my house only to wake up the next morning and find that the paint job was cheap and there is rust all over my fine automobile. So I return it to the lot and the lot attendant for the day says that the employee who sold me my car was not an employee and offers no suitable recompense for my troubles. I then go to the dealership manager who continues the same line as the lot employee. Then I decide to call headquarters who then admits that the man was an employee but that he wasn't supposed to be, someone forgot to fire him.

Is it wrong for me to be frustrated and want full compensation + the cost of time and trouble for the hurdles I had to jump just to get compensation for the crap product that was sold to me under the name of that dealership?

[Ivan Moldavi]

[quote name='Cager' timestamp='1289235645' post='2506196']
Define "standard convention" please.
[/quote]
You mean define it in the context of this discussion? Sure. Standard convention would be, as stated previously, that MK told NSO that one of its members had taken $3mil and not followed through. MK then would state that it intends to get its $3mil back by attacking said nation. OR NSO could have agreed to attack the nation for MK and paid the $3mil, which is did offer to do.

Stating that every member of the circle needed to be paid $3mil plus 50 tech by NSO for the "inconvenience" of one random nation skipping out on a trade is not in any way, shape or form standard convention.

Of course, it may become so now, which is why several people have stated they will not be looking to trade with MK in the future.

[BlkAK47_002]

[quote name='Michael von Prussia' timestamp='1289215874' post='2505985']
Oh my! Extortion and dirty tricks at the hands of MK? Who could have ever guessed?

No, this isn't surprising and it isn't big news, but I agree, bringing it to light is good. Gotta love how MK acts... pretty much exactly as NPO did back in the day, except perhaps with less class.

Edit: no, [i]definitely[/i] with less class.
[/quote]
Well at least they're trying, give em a little bit more time.

[White Chocolate]

[quote name='Cager' timestamp='1289235104' post='2506186']
It's just when you read 3 years of people doing this exact same thing and having the general community here set the precedent by stating it should be held in private channels(the statement private channels ftw ring bells). What happens in private channels stays in private channels.

But since when has the NSO cared about precedent.
[/quote]

Well, IF it's true that private is private (which I agree should be the case, unless it gets to the point of an actual war anyway, as one should justify war somehow and if it's due to a back channel discussion, so be it), it was violated by GOONS relatively recent. I'm not being critical of that either. THAT was FAR more serious than this situation so I don't blame GOONS for doing something. On the other hand, I'm NOT surprised that NSO is taking the opportunity to log dump as we've already seen it.

RV - maybe this should have been a blog?

[Diogenes]

[quote name='Ivan Moldavi' timestamp='1289233743' post='2506142']
So this was imposed upon you officially by the NSO now? So every "registered member" of the MK forum now acts in full accordance and with the full authority of the MK government?
[/quote]

I cannot say whether or not the decision to steal our money was made officially by the government of the NSO, but the theft of the money itself was perpetrated by an official member of your alliance, yes.

As for your second question: no, not every member of my alliance acts with the full authority of its government. However, my alliance and, by extension, its government, is accountable for the actions of its membership, and had our roles in this situation been reversed, I'm sure that you would have been compensated for your losses. I'll admit that the sum of money being asked for in this instance is a bit more hefty than what I personally would have requested, but such is life.

Edited November 8, 2010 by Quiziotle

[Ivan Moldavi]

[quote name='tamerlane' timestamp='1289235900' post='2506201']
Its called moderation, Ivan. Just because there if food on the counter doesn't mean you have to eat every morsel. Nevertheless, I recant. Im glad you found the time to embrace the horrible things said about you and respond to them but the issue here is the rust on what was a fine trade deal.

Im gonna use a metaphor here.

Say I wanted to buy a car and went to a used car lot. I go there and I buy a car from an employee donned in all the finest dealership apparel replete with name tag. I pay the cost of the car, in full, drive it off the lot to my house only to wake up the next morning and find that the paint job was cheap and there is rust all over my fine automobile. So I return it to the lot and the lot attendant for the day says that the employee who sold me my car was not an employee and offers no suitable recompense for my troubles. I then go to the dealership manager who continues the same line as the lot employee. Then I decide to call headquarters who then admits that the man was an employee but that he wasn't supposed to be, someone forgot to fire him.

Is it wrong for me to be frustrated and want full compensation + the cost of time and trouble for the hurdles I had to jump just to get compensation for the crap product that was sold to me under the name of that dealership?
[/quote]
Well, in that situation it would depend on the state where you live and your own culpability. In some states if you drive it off the lot it is yours, regardless of the condition once you get home. Caveat emptor (Buyer beware for the ignorant masses)

You wouldn't get anything. Period.

Edited November 8, 2010 by Ivan Moldavi

[Voytek]

[quote name='Ivan Moldavi' timestamp='1289236086' post='2506206']Caveat emptor (Buyer beware for the ignorant masses)[/quote]
"If you aren't fluent in a dead language you're ignorant"

Never change Ivan.

[Shodemofi-NPO]

This is ridiculous MK. Get over yourselves. Christ I'm glad we aren't tied to you anymore.

[Diogenes]

[quote name='Shodemofi' timestamp='1289236450' post='2506210']
Christ I'm glad we aren't tied to you anymore.
[/quote]

I feel exactly the same way.

Edited November 8, 2010 by Quiziotle

[Lurunin]

[quote name='Sardonic' timestamp='1289235144' post='2506187']
I'm not saying they don't, that's clearly not what happened here though. He sacrificed all his trades and changed colors, he had to go a lot further than the other members of the circle. It doesn't make sense for him to just change his mind like that after coming so far. Clearly he was instructed. NSO government saw a chance to do economic damage to MK and took it, even though they knew they were throwing their member under the bus in the process, poor show NSO.
[/quote]

i just facepalmed so hard...i hope you were making a sarcastic reference to that TKTB/rogue issue

[Branimir]

Fun read.

[quote name='Voytek' timestamp='1289236361' post='2506208']"If you aren't fluent in a dead language you're ignorant"[/quote]
To nitpick, the language is not dead yet, since its still being used-- as Ivan just did.

[White Chocolate]

[quote name='Ivan Moldavi' timestamp='1289235903' post='2506202']
Of course, it may become so now, which is why several people have stated they will not be looking to trade with MK in the future.
[/quote]

I'm glad you said that as standards can change. Will be interesting to see if other alliances start making the same demands in the same situation. Alliances would be likely to start getting pickier about who they allow in their alliance, if it affects more than just aqua. I could also see the alliance who had to pay turning around and attacking the member who caused the problem, which could get interesting IF that member is in another alliance. Want to pass along the cost to the alliance your former member joined?

However, I think this is about "respect" and not something MK would do in every case.

[Voytek]

[quote name='Shodemofi' timestamp='1289236450' post='2506210']
Get over yourselves.
[/quote]
from moralists

[quote name='Branimir' timestamp='1289236591' post='2506213']To nitpick, the language is not dead yet, since its still being used-- as Ivan just did.[/quote]
nope sorry its dead

Edited November 8, 2010 by Voytek

[Sardonic]

[quote name='Ivan Moldavi' timestamp='1289235311' post='2506192']
You know you sound like one of those tinfoil hat people, right?
[/quote]
Ah yes, here comes the attempts to discredit me, how quaint.
[quote]
So a nation changes colors and gives up its trades and "clearly he was instructed"? Really? $3mil is economic damage to MK? Really?
[/quote]
The 3m isn't the lion's share of the economic damage, it's the risk of having to collect with bad resources and the time wasted that could have been spent looking for a new target. Come now Ivan, if you want to out-post me, at least do me the dignity of bringing your A-Game. I'm not saying I know exactly why your member did this crime. I'm just saying mine is the most likely explanation, given the facts of the case.

[Manis B]

[quote name='Voytek' timestamp='1289236361' post='2506208']
"If you aren't fluent in a dead language you're ignorant"

Never change Ivan.
[/quote]

Heh. I picked up on the car salesman line first.

[Branimir]

[quote name='Voytek' timestamp='1289236599' post='2506215']nope sorry its dead [/quote]
Then we have quite different standards about what makes a dead language.

OOC: Dead languages are those that are forgotten and unused by anyone. Latin, not only not forgotten by the fact its learned in schools across the globe, its also actively daily used in, for example, medicine, but also law. Its a quite vital language, sort of an accepted cultural heritage of the Western World. I doubt it will ever die. Yeah making shots at those not understanding it is "jerk-ish", but Ivan is self admitted ego tripper. Its part of his charm

Edited November 8, 2010 by Branimir

[Voytek]

[quote name='Branimir' timestamp='1289236855' post='2506222']
Then we have quite different standards about what makes a dead language.

OOC: Dead languages are those that are forgotten and unused by anyone. Latin, not only not forgotten by the fact its learned in schools across the globe, its also actively daily used in, for example, medicine, but also law. Its a quite vital language, sort of a accepted heritage of the Western World. I doubt it will ever die.
[/quote]
nah it's dead

[Branimir]

[quote name='Voytek' timestamp='1289236897' post='2506223']nah it's dead[/quote]
u mad

Anyway, once again to say, a fun read.

[Voytek]

[quote name='Branimir' timestamp='1289237139' post='2506225']u mad[/quote]
nah just correct

[Timeline]

So if this is the case, can I join MK, go nuke rouge on NPO, then MK will pay the reps they demand as after all you are liable for my actions.

this is what you have claimed on NSO that they are liable for the actions of a new nation who made a mistake ?, also within your own words "a long time member" i hope NSO does not have long term members without a harbour

Edited November 8, 2010 by Timeline

[Voytek]

[quote name='Timeline' timestamp='1289237191' post='2506227']So if this is the case, can I join MK, go nuke rouge on NPO, then MK will pay the reps they demand as after all you are liable for my actions.
[/quote]
yes we will pay

[Branimir]

[quote name='Voytek' timestamp='1289237171' post='2506226']nah just correct[/quote]
I just do not accept the definition upon which you base your claim. I know it, I just do not agree to it in case of Latin.

[Jay Z]

This is complete !@#$@#$ !@#$%^&*. I send you 3 mill and demand 15mill+250tech? Thats !@#$@#$ ridiculous