Backroom Extortion is Back

[Branimir]

[quote name='tamerlane' timestamp='1289240355' post='2506288']We paid this guy to perform a service. Its the same thing as a tech deal. If we pay a tech seller in another alliance 3mil for 100 tech and that seller takes our money and is from what we can see by forum status and in game AA part of that alliance, we are gonna come knocking on that alliances door for our tech/money and they are going to be responsible Just as we would be if someone did that in our AA.[/quote]
I think that everybody agrees to the principle here in play, even the guy you quoted.

The problem some are raising is that they think that you went overboard with your demands, in sense committing extortion. As Londo also said but then tried to rationalize. But for some, this extortion has no rationalization and is bad form. So they bring that up.

edit: Beaten by Earogema

Edited November 8, 2010 by Branimir

[Londo Mollari]

[quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1289239626' post='2506276']

The promise of Vox was equality, the delivery of Karma is power-change.
[/quote]

I wasn't in Vox, and I never fought for a disloyal, dishonorable alliance like NSO to be treated the same as an honorable one. The delivery of Karma is what goes around comes around, looks like to me. NSO tried to extort people before, now they are getting extorted.

Maybe someone will tech raid Athens or MK next, for all the tech raids we've done. Certainly TOP tried their own brand of this a while back, and it stung.

[Alterego]

[quote name='tamerlane' timestamp='1289240355' post='2506288']
We paid this guy to perform a service. Its the same thing as a tech deal. If we pay a tech seller in another alliance 3mil for 100 tech and that seller takes our money and is from what we can see by forum status and in game AA part of that alliance, we are gonna come knocking on that alliances door for our tech/money and they are going to be responsible Just as we would be if someone did that in our AA.
[/quote]
If you pay for 50 tech do you demand 250 from others if you dont get it? I guess MK does

[tamerlane]

[quote name='Earogema' timestamp='1289240541' post='2506292']
Yeah for 3 million. That's it. If you're going to pay some newbie who doesn't even have a harbor yet there's risk involved that he's an idiot. He's new. He doesn't know how important trades are. Holding all of NSO responsible for funds you lost because YOU were irresponsible and couldn't find a temp is nonsensical.
[/quote]

Wrong but I doubt there is much I can do to help you understand what I am saying. Arguing with the willfully ignorant is not how I intend on spending my day.

[Schattenmann]

[quote name='tamerlane' timestamp='1289240355' post='2506288']
We paid this guy to perform a service. Its the same thing as a tech deal. If we pay a tech seller in another alliance 3mil for 100 tech and that seller takes our money and is from what we can see by forum status and in game AA part of that alliance, we are gonna come knocking on that alliances door for our tech/money and they are going to be responsible Just as we would be if someone did that in our AA.
[/quote]

And when a UPN member came soliciting to sell and I sent him money but then he never fulfilled due to inactivity, I moaned in UPN's general direction, got a "sorry, pal" and seeing no recompense was on the way I went on my way. I decided not to be petty about it and create some big situation with off the wall demands. Think of all the time I wasted!! Think of the money!! What about the emotional devastation that I felt from being cheated on my first ever buying deal! Ohhhh the huge manatee! I should have gotten at least 100 tech AND my money back from UPN.

Right. It sounds ridiculous because it is.

The deal was between me and some guy in UPN, not CoJ and UPN. Your deal was with some guy you thought was in NSO, not NSO and MK and Aloha. Your demands are spectacularly over the top.

[Ashok]

[quote name='tamerlane' timestamp='1289240355' post='2506288']
We paid this guy to perform a service. Its the same thing as a tech deal. If we pay a tech seller in another alliance 3mil for 100 tech and that seller takes our money and is from what we can see by forum status and in game AA part of that alliance, we are gonna come knocking on that alliances door for our tech/money and they are going to be responsible Just as we would be if someone did that in our AA.
[/quote]

Asking for 15mil and 250tech for paying this guy 3mil is not getting your money back but extorting more. You did not ask for your money back you asked for more than that and threated war to get it. None of which I like at all. Please explain where you were at all reasonable in your request of 15mil and 250tech?

[Chickenzilla]

The more I play CN, the more I wonder why anyone even cares about silly drama. sigh

[tamerlane]

[quote name='Alterego' timestamp='1289240664' post='2506296']
If you pay for 50 tech do you demand 250 from others if you dont get it? I guess MK does
[/quote]

It would appear that the amount owed is dependent upon the number of hurdles that have to be jumped to get an answer.

[Darrenb209]

[quote name='tamerlane' timestamp='1289240355' post='2506288']
We paid this guy to perform a service. Its the same thing as a tech deal. If we pay a tech seller in another alliance 3mil for 100 tech and that seller takes our money and is from what we can see by forum status and in game AA part of that alliance, we are gonna come knocking on that alliances door for our tech/money and they are going to be responsible Just as we would be if someone did that in our AA.
[/quote]



Nobody is denying that, asking for the 3 million back or 50/100 tech would be reasonable, the prices demanded where unreasonable.


in a tech deal, you don't go and demand 5 times the money/tech that wasn't sent.

[Earogema]

[quote name='tamerlane' timestamp='1289240758' post='2506297']
Wrong but I doubt there is much I can do to help you understand what I am saying. Arguing with the willfully ignorant is not how I intend on spending my day.
[/quote]
Really? You see NOTHING wrong with offering 3 million to nation who is 37 (35 at the day of the transaction) days old who has "nation will want peace but will attack if enraged" as his nation bio? Nevermind that MK has made fun of nations for stupid bios before right?

Nevermind that he is not tech dealing, that he has no other trades, that his nation is terrible, etc.

The guy is an idiot. It's like investing in high level stock. You lost. Have a back-up plan.

[Ashok]

[quote name='tamerlane' timestamp='1289240860' post='2506301']
It would appear that the amount owed is dependent upon the number of hurdles that have to be jumped to get an answer.
[/quote]

There were no hurdles we disavowed him as a member and yet you continued to say you lie when we do not. Its quite simple you first spoke to Lintwad who is no longer gov and then spoke to two government members who told you what the answer was threatened war and got what you want because we want to see our alliance survive and not ground into dust.

[tamerlane]

[quote name='Earogema' timestamp='1289240952' post='2506304']
Really? You see NOTHING wrong with offering 3 million to nation who is 37 (35 at the day of the transaction) days old who has "nation will want peace but will attack if enraged" as his nation bio? Nevermind that MK has made fun of nations for stupid bios before right?

Nevermind that he is not tech dealing, that he has no other trades, that his nation is terrible, etc.

The guy is an idiot. It's like investing in high level stock. You lost. Have a back-up plan.
[/quote]

please feel free to reread the post where I discuss how I do not intend on spending my day.

[Alterego]

[quote name='tamerlane' timestamp='1289240860' post='2506301']
It would appear that the amount owed is dependent upon the number of hurdles that have to be jumped to get an answer.
[/quote]
I guess it was money well spent if NSO had MK jumping through hoops. I guess their fraglie ego cant take not having people wait on them hand and foot anymore, they should rejoin C&G.

[tamerlane]

[quote name='Ashok' timestamp='1289241002' post='2506306']
There were no hurdles we disavowed him as a member and yet you continued to say you lie when we do not. Its quite simple you first spoke to Lintwad who is no longer gov and then spoke to two government members who told you what the answer was threatened war and got what you want because we want to see our alliance survive and not ground into dust.
[/quote]


Member on Forum + Member on in game AA = Member. Thats a very simple equation and one that I would think to be a standard across CN. We cannot be accountable for your clear inability to moderate your forums nor should we be expected to.

Edited November 8, 2010 by tamerlane

[Schattenmann]

[quote name='Londo Mollari' timestamp='1289240627' post='2506294']
I wasn't in Vox, and I never fought for a disloyal, dishonorable alliance like NSO to be treated the same as an honorable one. The delivery of Karma is what goes around comes around, looks like to me. NSO tried to extort people before, now they are getting extorted.

Maybe someone will tech raid Athens or MK next, for all the tech raids we've done. Certainly TOP tried their own brand of this a while back, and it stung.
[/quote]

That is exactly the difference between you and me, and Vox and Karma. Vox Populi was formed during the attacks on Polaris, the alliance which forced the disbandment of many of Vox's members and which antagonized my old home in GOONS. Injustice is injustice, and where it is allowed due to moral relativism such as yours, it is allowed leeway to be applied to everyone.

I don't need to check my naughty list to decide if something is wrong or right. It either is or isn't. This is not right without regard to NSO's past.

Edited November 8, 2010 by Schattenmann

[Earogema]

[quote name='tamerlane' timestamp='1289241018' post='2506307']
please feel free to reread the post where I discuss how I do not intend on spending my day.
[/quote]
Yeah, I wouldn't want to admit to losing the debate either. I'm just "wrong."

You sure did tell me.

[Rebel Virginia]

[quote name='Londo Mollari' timestamp='1289240627' post='2506294']
I wasn't in Vox, and I never fought for a disloyal, dishonorable alliance like NSO to be treated the same as an honorable one. The delivery of Karma is what goes around comes around, looks like to me. NSO tried to extort people before, now they are getting extorted.

Maybe someone will tech raid Athens or MK next, for all the tech raids we've done. Certainly TOP tried their own brand of this a while back, and it stung.
[/quote]
[color="#0000FF"]You still upset over something that happened well over a year ago under a past emperor? I'll agree that the demand was unreasonable, but the NSO hasn't attempted anything like that in a long, long time. In fact, I'd say we're one of the few alliances out there these days with anything remotely resembling honor. You may not like us, or agree with anything we do, but what you see with us is exactly what you get. We don't try to hide our actions behind some faux moralistic justification like your buddies in MK are attempting right now.[/color]

[Ashok]

[quote name='tamerlane' timestamp='1289241062' post='2506310']
Member on Forum + Member on in game AA = Member. Thats a very simple equation and one that I would think to be a standard across CN. We cannot be accountable for your clear inability to moderate your forums nor should we be expected to.
[/quote]

Technically you are right but as many of us had said we don't monitor our masks as efficiently as we should and that is a mistake that should not be paid for in the amounts asked for. Also following your logic the nation linked with the profile no longer exists.

EDIT: You aren't asked to be accountable you are asked to see that its an issue you asked actual gov members who told you he is not a member which was not the answer you wanted and continued to say "We want 15mil and 250tech give it or else" where else is the conversation to go?

Edited November 8, 2010 by Ashok

[Jay Z]

[quote name='Sardonic' timestamp='1289231502' post='2506107']
If by "clerical error" you mean "deliberate scam", then yeah. Keep on spinning'.
[/quote]

If you think NSO told this member to tell you that he was going to trade with you, but then not trade with you, you are the definition of ignorant.

[quote name='tamerlane' timestamp='1289232255' post='2506119']
Is Revan a member? We received 3 different, conflicting answers making our job that much harder.[/quote]

3? Yes, hes a member. No, hes not a member. And...? Hes an alien?

[quote name='tamerlane' timestamp='1289232255' post='2506119']
This is not about ruining a trade circle, this is about stealing and then proceeding to smokescreen the truth.
[/quote]

So nation A steals 3 million from you since you paid him to get a harbor, and you ask for 750% of that in reps? An eye for an [s]eye[/s] head seems a bit excessive.

[quote name='Leet Guy' timestamp='1289233231' post='2506132']
Because we certainly have a long history of acting on weak CB's simply out of bloodlust for alliances, right? I also find it hilarious that you think we'd need allies to properly defeat your alliance as well.
[/quote]

I would love to see MK vrs. NSO right now. You forget you aren't in PB and you canceled most of your trades. It would be CnG+Doomhouse versus NPO/Iron Curtain/PnL train/Aztec. You would be raped.

[i]Edit: I say CnG because of your LOST+ODN treaties[/i]

[quote name='Timeline' timestamp='1289237191' post='2506227']
So if this is the case, can I join MK, go nuke rouge on NPO, then MK will pay the reps they demand as after all you are liable for my actions.

this is what you have claimed on NSO that they are liable for the actions of a new nation who made a mistake ?, also within your own words "a long time member" i hope NSO does not have long term members without a harbour
[/quote]

Yes, they will pay for you because they dislike NPO. Go rogue on someone they like, they won't. This is about double-standards. The fact of the matter is that MK would not have demanded this ridiculous amount out of an alliance that isn't NSO.

Edited November 8, 2010 by Jay Z

[Ashok]

[quote name='Jay Z' timestamp='1289241394' post='2506317']
3? Yes, hes a member. No, hes not a member. And...? Hes an alien?[/quote]

They got Lintwad, who is no longer a gove member (who told them as much) that he believed him to be a member. They then acquired myself and Kevin who told them that he is not a member and they got all mad about it and called us liars threatening war should we not pay the exorbenant amount they asked for.

[Ivan Moldavi]

[quote name='Rebel Virginia' timestamp='1289241141' post='2506313']
[color="#0000FF"]You still upset over something that happened well over a year ago under a past emperor? I'll agree that the demand was unreasonable, but the NSO hasn't attempted anything like that in a long, long time. In fact, I'd say we're one of the few alliances out there these days with anything remotely resembling honor. You may not like us, or agree with anything we do, but what you see with us is exactly what you get. We don't try to hide our actions behind some faux moralistic justification like your buddies in MK are attempting right now.[/color]
[/quote]
I think he is making it up anyway. What would Pierconium do with 2000 tech?

[tamerlane]

[quote name='Jay Z' timestamp='1289241394' post='2506317']
Words
[/quote]


You've got us to a "T" sir.

[Fernando12]

I hope NSO doesn't pay this bull !@#$. Your position is not as bad as you think RV. You guys shouldn't pay. I would rather you guys test the treaty web than give in to MK's !@#$.

[Earogema]

[quote name='Fernando12' timestamp='1289241759' post='2506322']
I hope NSO doesn't pay this bull !@#$. Your position is not as bad as you think RV. You guys shouldn't pay. I would rather you guys test the treaty web than give in to MK's !@#$.
[/quote]
You got Fernando supporting NSO here MK. I mean, wow.

[tamerlane]

[quote name='Earogema' timestamp='1289241845' post='2506323']
You got Fernando supporting NSO here MK. I mean, wow.
[/quote]
Believe us, we're beside ourselves.