Backroom Extortion is Back

[citizenkane]

[quote name='Dochartaigh' timestamp='1289244544' post='2506386']
bolded part is key. ya'll did not pay NSO, but instead paid a single nation. one that was handed over to you basically. and instead of extracting payment from the actual receiver, ya'll extorted NSO. You could have asked for the 3m back but instead went straight to the extortion amount.

it seems like we should not do tech deals with MK since if a nation fails to pay the 100 tech, what should we expect in return? MK to come knocking at our door asking for 750 tech? that is the equivalent you asked for.

honestly, i hope every alliance not allied to MK takes notice of this 750% increase in value and stops trading or tech dealing with MK. we will see how this idiotic policy of yours is handled in the future.
[/quote]


This isnt tech deals and this isnt[i] every[/i] alliance. This is the same NSO that chose to go to war over something that could have been sorted for 3mil.

[Rebel Virginia]

[quote name='Sal Paradise' timestamp='1289244321' post='2506382']
and have some damn integrity.
[/quote]
[color="#0000FF"]Integrity is in short supply these days and has been for a long time. You don't get into power if you have integrity. No, having a spine and standing up for something gets your marginalized, ostracized, and eventually destroyed. No one wants to have integrity anymore. It's a terrible business plan.

No, if people had integrity and were willing to stand up for something just because it is the right thing to do you can bet the NPO wouldn't have lasted as long as it did. But they found it easier and more beneficial to work with and cooperate with them. It let them act upon their petty grudges, and it allowed them to power trip, and boy what a high a power trip can give someone. That's the reason why MK will get away with this today, and no one will lose any sleep over allowing it to happen. The NSO is an unpopular alliance, and the MK has friends, or at the very least fair weather friends who will work with them to maintain power. It is in their interest to put their blinders on and assume that Caesar can do no wrong. And it will stay that way until one of these cronies works up the courage to use all the sentiment and anger towards MK that's been building up to plunge a dagger into their back and crown themselves king. That's the way this world works. As disgusting and slimey as it is, this is the world that we have all created. Each and everyone of us.[/color]

[Cager]

[quote name='Merrie Melodies' timestamp='1289244262' post='2506380']
i remember this line coming from NPO a few years ago, btw how did that work out for them?
[/quote]

Wouldn't know. Wasn't around for it

[AirMe]

[quote name='citizenkane' timestamp='1289244759' post='2506396']
This isnt tech deals and this isnt[i] every[/i] alliance. This is the same NSO that chose to go to war over something that could have been sorted for 3mil.
[/quote]

Translation: Extortion is ok because it's NSO.

[Rebel Virginia]

[quote name='AirMe' timestamp='1289244921' post='2506401']
Translation: Extortion is ok because it's NSO.
[/quote]
[color="#0000FF"]Exactly and precisely. Quite a few of MK's cheerleaders have come out and said this outright. Go back a few pages and you'll find your sweetheart Londo starting up that chant.[/color]

[citizenkane]

[quote name='AirMe' timestamp='1289244921' post='2506401']
Translation: Extortion is ok because it's NSO.
[/quote]

Raising the bounty because of previous actions is not unheard of.

[Ashok]

[quote name='citizenkane' timestamp='1289244759' post='2506396']
This isnt tech deals and this isnt[i] every[/i] alliance. This is the same NSO that chose to go to war over something that could have been sorted for 3mil.
[/quote]

Under different leadership. Am I to assume that you think I and every other Sith Lord, the Dark Lord, and the Emperor are like our predecessors? If so you are kindly mistaken. We were willing to be cordial and respectful until threats were used to extort money and tech from us due to a ghost. Please tell me where at all this is a similar situation?

[AirMe]

[quote name='citizenkane' timestamp='1289245005' post='2506405']
Raising the bounty because of previous actions is not unheard of.
[/quote]

Man, can't wait to see what PC's fine is going to be. It's going to be at least 10 times that of NSO's given your track record.

[Schattenmann]

[quote name='AirMe' timestamp='1289244921' post='2506401']
Translation: Extortion is ok because it's NSO.
[/quote]

No kidding. It turns my stomach:

[quote name='Londo Mollari' timestamp='1289239308' post='2506269']
Some people are so equivocal and annoying that they are barely worth trying to engage in diplomacy, because all you will get is the runaround anyway. I know my past experiences with mhawk were a deciding factor in my decision not to talk to him or TPF at all before rolling them last year, after learning of a certain plot he had made against us.

My experiences with NSO have been just about as bad. They are not a fun bunch to talk to at all, and my past diplomatic dealings with them have left me with a strong desire to lock and load and kick the living crap out of them. Turns out, NSO treats everyone that way, and that's why they are a perennially beatdown alliance ad nearly everyone loathes them.

As far as extortion goes, I remember when NSO (Ivan himself) attempted to extort 2,000 tech from Athens after we accepted Banned Member, because Banned Member had still been looking at some old forum that NSO hadn't demasked him on. I told Ivan that we weren't paying and if he wanted to go to war over it, we were ready to nuke the living hell out of NSO. I don't recall talking about it on the forums at all at the time, though.

This is blatant extortion. MK knows that it's blatant extortion. And you know, if this had been done to some decent alliance, I would be disappointed in MK a lot right now. But it wasn't done to a decent alliance. It was done to NSO. NSO, this is the price you pay for your own attempts at extortion and various other diplomatic malfeasances over the time you have been alive. This is the price you pay for blowing smoke at someone with a lot of nukes and an itchy trigger finger. This is the price you pay for trying to play Machiavelli and showing no long-term loyalty whatsoever to your allies. It does eventually catch up with you.
[/quote]

Edited November 8, 2010 by Schattenmann

[Rebel Virginia]

[quote name='Ashok' timestamp='1289245033' post='2506406']
Under different leadership. Am I to assume that you think I and every other Sith Lord, the Dark Lord, and the Emperor are like our predecessors? If so you are kindly mistaken. We were willing to be cordial and respectful until threats were used to extort money and tech from us due to a ghost. Please tell me where at all this is a similar situation?
[/quote]
[color="#0000FF"]This, and we've been willing to acknowledge we made some severe mistaken in our dealing with RoK. However, we did no wrong here. That is a difference that should not be overlooked.[/color]

[Merrie Melodies]

[quote name='Cager' timestamp='1289244878' post='2506399']
Wouldn't know. Wasn't around for it
[/quote]
Give it time, I am sure you will find out, what comes around goes around, been that way since I landed here in 06.

[Il Impero Romano]

[quote name='Ashok' timestamp='1289244758' post='2506395']
Look about 10 pages back you will see the MK lap dog crew begin to show up that is where it comes from good sir.
[/quote]

Err..the opinions of a few general members (as in two or three) now makes a lap dog crew? Still confused as to why one would throw that catch phrase in our direction, but yea, whatever lol

Edited November 8, 2010 by Il Impero Romano

[Cager]

[quote name='Merrie Melodies' timestamp='1289245183' post='2506411']
Give it time, I am sure you will find out, what comes around goes around, been that way since I landed here in 06.
[/quote]

Yes I landed here in '06 too.

[citizenkane]

[quote name='AirMe' timestamp='1289245065' post='2506408']
Man, can't wait to see what PC's fine is going to be. It's going to be at least 10 times that of NSO's given your track record.
[/quote]

I can't wait to complain about you extorting us.

[Ashok]

[quote name='Il Impero Romano' timestamp='1289245207' post='2506412']
Err..the opinions of a few general members? Still confused as to why one would throw that catch phrase in our direction, but yea, whatever lol
[/quote]

Well if a ghost is an actual member and represents the thoughts of the NSO gov then I guess a few general members represents VE's beliefs if we follow MK's logic here. Just sayin'

[AirMe]

[quote name='citizenkane' timestamp='1289245279' post='2506414']
I can't wait to complain about you extorting us.
[/quote]

Don't hold your breath. Wait...yes...please hold your breath.

[Burnsey]

Damn you NSO, always up to some sort of mischief!

Seriously though? 15m/250? Ridiculous. Maybe 3mil but come on? I'm sure MK can overlook a mistake when it comes to demasking a member...or maybe not?

Kudos to NSO for actually paying. Wish you weren't put in this position but alas. Good luck.

Edited November 8, 2010 by Burnsey

[Schattenmann]

[quote name='AirMe' timestamp='1289245431' post='2506417']
Don't hold your breath. Wait...yes...please hold your breath.
[/quote]
Let's get together on this one.

[Ashok]

[quote name='Burnsey' timestamp='1289245464' post='2506419']
Damn you NSO, always up to some sort of mischief!

Seriously though? 15m/250? Ridiculous. Maybe 3mil but come on? I'm sure MK can overlook a mistake when it comes to demasking a member...or maybe not?

Kudos to NSO for actually paying. Wish you weren't put in this position but alas. Good luck.
[/quote]

What can I say? We love ourselves some mischief

[Horatio Longworth]

I for one miss having MK as our evil overlords.

[MagicalTrevor]

Should have been 3mil50tech, nothing more.


The "masked ghost" stuff is some of the worst e-lawyering i've seen on on CN, good job on that RV.

[LittleRena]

Did you extort the money before or after you completed the trade circle there MK?

Oh and bravo on winning Karma to provide something [i]diffrent[/i][sup]1[/sup]

[img]http://img203.imageshack.us/img203/8885/clappingw.gif[/img]

[sup]1[/sup][i]See also: more of the same[/i]

[Rebel Virginia]

[quote name='MagicalTrevor' timestamp='1289246012' post='2506425']
Should have been 3mil50tech, nothing more.


The "masked ghost" stuff is some of the worst e-lawyering i've seen on on CN, good job on that RV.
[/quote]
[color="#0000FF"]I'm no lawyer, just a simple man. He was a member who should have been removed is what I am saying, or was trying to say, since MK made it clear that we simply weren't allowed to drop him. Had they just allowed that then this discussion never would have happened. But they really wanted that money and tech, and they couldn't be reasoned with.[/color]

[Sardonic]

[quote name='Rebel Virginia' timestamp='1289244028' post='2506372']
[color="#0000FF"]This is just as ridiculous as Sardonic's little conspiracy theory. Also, to whomever said PB would not back Umbrella and GOONS (in Doomhouse), you are exceptionally naive.[/color]
[/quote]
I would have thought you of all people would appreciate conspiracy theories.

[Il Impero Romano]

[quote name='Ashok' timestamp='1289245310' post='2506416']
Well if a ghost is an actual member and represents the thoughts of the NSO gov then I guess a few general members represents VE's beliefs if we follow MK's logic here. Just sayin'
[/quote]

You know as well as I do that the logic does not impute there (at least I hope so).

Anyway, as for my thoughts on this, those who scam aid are universally subject to punishment, and this situation is no different in that regard. Perhaps a bit harsh? Maybe, but that facet of the situation is subjective and does not speak to the validity of the action as a whole. As for the actions of the nation being projected onto NSO, it entirely depends if the nation is going to be treated as a member and granted the privileges and immunities provided to such a classification (which includes the alliance paying for the mistakes of the member when he is unable to do so), and there undeniably is a great deal of confusion in those logs about whether or not that is the case. Assuming the worst is always prudent when presented with such confusion, and that is all that happened. No great evil was committed here in my opinion, despite the fact that I personally may have handled it differently.

Edited November 8, 2010 by Il Impero Romano