Backroom Extortion is Back

[Ivan Moldavi]

[quote name='Cager' timestamp='1289234318' post='2506166']
I look at that sentence and the bold words and then I look at your alliance affiliation. The moral high ground and the NSO don't belong together.
[/quote]
Morals and honor/integrity aren't the same thing.

Plus, I laughed because it was you saying it.

Edited November 8, 2010 by Ivan Moldavi

[Ivan Moldavi]

[quote name='Thorgrum' timestamp='1289234261' post='2506161']
Given what I was privvy too via logs while I was in ROK and given what I was told when I was in ROK by senior gov and didnt see, and given what I was witness to in IRC channels. I am vastly more inclined to believe Tamerlane's version of the the discussion. While I have no anamosity for the Sith, its highly likely his frustration is indeed derived from the ridiculous nonsense your lords engage in, in a diplomatic setting.

Edit: good luck with it though, Im off to the otherworld for a bit.
[/quote]
Lintwad should just post his logs then. I haven't read them.

[tamerlane]

[quote name='Ivan Moldavi' timestamp='1289234229' post='2506157']
Once upon a time those backroom channels included conducting affairs with honor and integrity as well.

So yes, times do change.
[/quote]

lol. Revisionists are hilarious.

[Wad of Lint]

[quote name='Thorgrum' timestamp='1289234261' post='2506161']
Given what I was privvy too via logs while I was in ROK and given what I was told when I was in ROK by senior gov and didnt see, and given what I was witness to in IRC channels. I am vastly more inclined to believe Tamerlane's version of the the discussion. While I have no anamosity for the Sith, its highly likely his frustration is indeed derived from the ridiculous nonsense your lords engage in, in a diplomatic setting.

Edit: good luck with it though, Im off to the otherworld for a bit.
[/quote]

From someone who has seen all logs, MK was informed right off the bat of this members status as a ghost and our unwillingness to protect him. Having found this an unsatisfactory answer (for profits sake) they decided to carry the discussion much further than was necessary.

[Cager]

[quote name='Ivan Moldavi' timestamp='1289234400' post='2506168']
Morals and honor/integrity aren't the same thing.

Plus, I laughed because it was you saying it.
[/quote]

You're trying to play the man of honour. It's not working. You used to be cool circa '06.

[kevin32891]

[quote name='Cager' timestamp='1289234318' post='2506166']
I look at that sentence and the bold words and then I look at your alliance affiliation. The moral high ground and the NSO don't belong together.
[/quote]

Are you going to bring relevance to what happened or are you going to continue to just insult our alliance?

[Ivan Moldavi]

[quote name='tamerlane' timestamp='1289234494' post='2506170']
lol. Revisionists are hilarious.
[/quote]
Yes, you are.

I never claimed to be magnanimous in my dealings, but when you entered a room with me you got an upfront response, not some back and forth banter that includes mind-reading expectations and empty threats.

[tamerlane]

[quote name='kevin32891' timestamp='1289234250' post='2506159']
Sardonic that's a stretch even for you.




Oh wow 3mill was never offered to us. I offered that we could hit the guy for you or you could hit him yourself. So now we have to read your minds? Please...
[/quote]


It was never offered because, if I am not mistaken, you started out refusing to acknowledge the status of his membership. Notice how NSO was the one who offered up the 3mil and the temp trade in my scenario.

[Ivan Moldavi]

[quote name='Cager' timestamp='1289234549' post='2506172']
You're trying to play the man of honour. It's not working. You used to be cool circa '06.
[/quote]
And you never were. So what?

I am trying to play no such man. I am simply pointing out the duplicity of your alliance. You go into a backroom discussion and make ridiculous demands that no one else has ever done in similar circumstances because of your power and then cry when you get called out on it.

Either do it and be the villain, which is what most people want anyway, or don't do it, but don't cry about it.

[Sardonic]

[quote name='Ivan Moldavi' timestamp='1289234368' post='2506167']
Right. So instead of it being just some random player that is like the vast majority of players that checks in periodically and has no real clue about the ins and outs of the minority politics here on the forum it must be that some new member of NSO was posting in the private channel that he was getting into a trade circle with MK people and the NSO government went out of their way to instruct him on how to swindle them out of $3mil.

Yes, you are again exactly right. That makes perfect sense.
[/quote]
Good, glad we agree then, because the idea that a lone nation, even a semi-inactive one, would reneg on a deal like that (especially one so near completion) without any outside stimuli, for 3m, is quite frankly ridiculous.

[abdur]

[quote name='Sardonic' timestamp='1289233670' post='2506141']
Why should we even believe an alliance with such a long history of being duplicitous? It wouldn't surprise me if he was ordered to break the trades after NSO gov found out he was trading with MK.
[/quote]
If NSO really told members to not trade with alliances they dont 'like', we would be seeing a mass exodus of members, especially now, since Planet Bob is shrinking, you take every trade you can get.

[kevin32891]

[quote name='tamerlane' timestamp='1289234641' post='2506176']
It was never offered because, if I am not mistaken, you started out refusing to acknowledge the status of his membership. Notice how NSO was the one who offered up the 3mil and the temp trade in my scenario.
[/quote]

That because he wasn't supposed to be a member. I wouldn't have known if he was still masked until MK told me.

[Ivan Moldavi]

[quote name='Sardonic' timestamp='1289234716' post='2506178']
Good, glad we agree then, because the idea that a lone nation, even a semi-inactive one, would reneg on a deal like that (especially one so near completion) without any outside stimuli, for 3m, is quite frankly ridiculous.
[/quote]
Yes, because trade circles never fail in the Cyberverse. *rollseyes*

[tamerlane]

[quote name='Ivan Moldavi' timestamp='1289234591' post='2506174']
Yes, you are.

I never claimed to be magnanimous in my dealings, but when you entered a room with me you got an upfront response, not some back and forth banter that includes mind-reading expectations and empty threats.
[/quote]

So this is now about Ivan Moldavi.

[Cager]

[quote name='Ivan Moldavi' timestamp='1289234695' post='2506177']
And you never were. So what?

I am trying to play no such man. I am simply pointing out the duplicity of your alliance. You go into a backroom discussion and make ridiculous demands that no one else has ever done in similar circumstances because of your power and then cry when you get called out on it.

Either do it and be the villain, which is what most people want anyway, or don't do it, but don't cry about it.
[/quote]

I'm pretty sure the NPO has made some hilarious and ridiculous demands in backroom channels to make that statement untrue. Maybe not while you were in power but saying we're setting the supposed precedent for something like this in 4 years is laughable at best.

Also I was more cool circa '07 than anything.

[Ivan Moldavi]

[quote name='tamerlane' timestamp='1289234851' post='2506182']
So this is now about Ivan Moldavi.
[/quote]
Isn't it always? You are the one responding and making direct comments towards me and my past actions. I did no such thing except in response to you and others.

If you don't want to feed my ego, don't leave the food on the counter.

I commented expressly on my opinion of the issues and Cager's crying about the backroom dealings being made public.

[Cager]

[quote name='Ivan Moldavi' timestamp='1289234943' post='2506185']


I commented expressly on my opinion of the issues and Cager's crying about the backroom dealings being made public.
[/quote]

It's just when you read 3 years of people doing this exact same thing and having the general community here set the precedent by stating it should be held in private channels(the statement private channels ftw ring bells). What happens in private channels stays in private channels.

But since when has the NSO cared about precedent.

[Sardonic]

[quote name='Ivan Moldavi' timestamp='1289234798' post='2506181']
Yes, because trade circles never fail in the Cyberverse. *rollseyes*
[/quote]
I'm not saying they don't, that's clearly not what happened here though. He sacrificed all his trades and changed colors, he had to go a lot further than the other members of the circle. It doesn't make sense for him to just change his mind like that after coming so far. Clearly he was instructed. NSO government saw a chance to do economic damage to MK and took it, even though they knew they were throwing their member under the bus in the process, poor show NSO.

[Ivan Moldavi]

[quote name='Cager' timestamp='1289235104' post='2506186']
It's just when you read 3 years of people doing this exact same thing and having the general community here set the precedent by stating it should be held in private channels(the statement private channels ftw ring bells). What happens in private channels stays in private channels.

But since when has the NSO cared about precedent.
[/quote]
Really?

Backroom discussions that go wrong or are in gross violation of "precedent" and standard convention [i]always[/i] remain private?

Really?

Come on. I know I am out of touch but damn.

[Hadrian]

Oh man, what a pathetic move on MK's behalf. That amount of reps for a bunch of ruined backcollects? Wow...just..wow.

[Lusitan]

[quote name='tamerlane' timestamp='1289233890' post='2506147']
had to fix some errors in your propaganda...


Also, I just said that if NSO feels they have been singled out over this they are welcome to get one of their little backroom chat buddies that they have been plotting GOONS' demise with to come and try this with a far better situated alliance and see if we don't react the same way. All we are asking is that you deal with us straight from the very beginning. That is not a tall order and its not our fault for someone giving us the run around.

Let me show you how this should have been handled.


Thats not hwo this was handled. It was instead handled in the typical NSO fashion of flashing lights and posturing.
[/quote]

Meh, contrarily to what you may think neither me nor anyone in my alliance care enough about MK to make any type of opposition. That said, the sad idea I am making up any kind of propaganda is ridiculous in general and, eventually, paranoid in particular.

I am also not sure how you saying you will give the same treatment to any alliance who does the same to you anything good, but good luck there.

Lastly, what part of 650% fee for mistakes of negotiation (or the nuisance if you rather) did you not understand that is abusive regardless of whatever tone of pink you try to paint it with.

[Ivan Moldavi]

[quote name='Sardonic' timestamp='1289235144' post='2506187']
I'm not saying they don't, that's clearly not what happened here though. He sacrificed all his trades and changed colors, he had to go a lot further than the other members of the circle. It doesn't make sense for him to just change his mind like that after coming so far. Clearly he was instructed. NSO government saw a chance to do economic damage to MK and took it, even though they knew they were throwing their member under the bus in the process, poor show NSO.
[/quote]
You know you sound like one of those tinfoil hat people, right?

So a nation changes colors and gives up its trades and "clearly he was instructed"? Really? $3mil is economic damage to MK? Really?

You guys don't even try anymore. I mean, I know you don't have to because you have all the guns but God, it seems like you would want to have some finesse in your autocracy.

Edited November 8, 2010 by Ivan Moldavi

[White Chocolate]

[quote name='Earl Dumarest' timestamp='1289229151' post='2506086']
Can I get MK to negotiate for me next time I buy a car or a house? Absolute kudos to them for managing to pull this off. I'm absolutely astonished that it was agreed to. What was the reason given? NSO is scared of MK? That doesn't seem likely,
[/quote]

My guess is that it's worth more in public relations points. At least I think so. MK probably should have stuck with a demand for 3 million. At least, I haven't seen anything to suggest otherwise.

Cold war politics equals a ton of extra work for skilled diplomats/public relations people. It's critical for alliance security. So alliance leaders, go get your most skilled public relations people flowers, or something.

:salute: to RV, who is in that category, in my opinion. NSO is lucky to have you.

(WC is looking forward to more log dumps from various alliances in the future.)

[Schattenmann]

Utter. bull. !@#$.

[Cager]

[quote name='Ivan Moldavi' timestamp='1289235203' post='2506188']
Really?

Backroom discussions that go wrong or are in gross violation of "precedent" and standard convention [i]always[/i] remain private?

Really?

Come on. I know I am out of touch but damn.
[/quote]


Define "standard convention" please.