An Announcement from The Conclave

[Keve69]

Poor show.

[LittleRena]

[quote name='deathman1212' timestamp='1289078127' post='2504247']
a) The treaty is both defensive AND optional so it isn't even triggered.
[/quote]

Well TIO, TCU and BTA declared on AcTi, so a defence clause would be activated on those declarations, it's still optional and suicidal.

[Scorponok]

[quote name='Keve69' timestamp='1289078649' post='2504253']
Poor show.
[/quote]

How so?

[Aeternos Astramora]

[quote name='deathman1212' timestamp='1289078127' post='2504247']
Wait, wait, wait. What?

Could someone explain to me how the Conclave has suddenly become evil and hanging their friends out to dry after:

a) The treaty is both defensive AND optional so it isn't even triggered.

See:



b) After a feat of idiocy, The Conclave will still use up their resources to help said treaty partner.

I would be completely grateful to an ally who would help me out even when a treaty doesn't apply.
[/quote]
This. There's a reason this is an ODP, not an MADP. It's simply stupid to think that "being friends" with an alliance means you should support aggressive actions when your friendship is only at the ODP stage. There's a reason why an ODP is not an MADP. They are very different.

[quote name='TheListener' timestamp='1289078481' post='2504251']
The simple explanation is as follows the peanut gallery has a huge interest in this escalating into a larger war because it could expand to involving Polaris, thus weakening any opposing forces to the sphere of influence of which the peanut gallery belongs to.
[/quote]
Well, the only way for this to grow is for Conclave to get involved on an aggressive action by using an ODP (which doesn't make sense), then my alliance Argent getting involved to help them (which, as we discussed with them not even a week ago, if an outside treaty pulls them into a war, we are not obligated to get involved; they are at the stage where they can almost come out of the protectorate), and then Polar would have to get involved. Even that wouldn't spiral out of control unless Argent got TOP, Umbrella, IRON, FCC, OMFG, or VE involved, but all of those are non-chaining.

It's a really, really unlikely series of steps.

[quote name='LittleRena' timestamp='1289078758' post='2504255']
Well TIO, TCU and BTA declared on AcTi, so a defence clause would be activated on those declarations, it's still optional and suicidal.
[/quote]
Non-chaining.

Edited November 6, 2010 by Aeternos Astramora

[wickedj]

i see lots of MAD MAD MAD from alot of people in this thread

anyhow, AcTi stuck their foot in the gators mouth and the gator took a bite..i wouldnt help them for being stupid either

[AnCapistan]

[quote name='TheListener' timestamp='1289078300' post='2504249']
see now, if it was that simple sure I'd be right behind you, but considering the fact that there were so many rumors of AcTi planning on attacking TKTB as far back as 3 days ago, I'd have to say that one member was not a rogue and his reason of "orders" is meant to be interpreted exactly as what it says.
[/quote]

Since when have sane alliances based crucial decisions off of rumors?

[Ian Dox]

Sometimes its a better friend who can be there to pick up the pieces.

You're being a better friend by being there to help rebuild after everything is over, rather than burning along side of them. That does not help AcTi.

[DarkEra97]

Conclave would have taken flak regardless of their choice on this matter. I think this is the better choice.

[James Maximus]

[quote name='Mr Damsky' timestamp='1289079628' post='2504271']
Since when have sane alliances based crucial decisions off of rumors?
[/quote]
It was more than rumors, Bat pretty much told the world that he was going to declare on TKTB that update. WHen someone attacks one of TKTBs nations with the reason "Orders" We take those threats from Bat to heart.

[Ernesto Che Guevara]

When both sides look like fools, as is the case here, it is the official position of Europa to sit back and watch them destroy one another.

[KingEd]

[quote name='DarkEra97' timestamp='1289080579' post='2504290']
Conclave would have taken flak regardless of their choice on this matter. I think this is the better choice.
[/quote]

Sure it's the better choice; however, this choice kills any potential drama with the war escalating past CoNc and onto Argent at which point things would have gotten war-alicious.

[The Big Bad]

I am not sure how you would enter an agressive war through a PIAT anyway, alhough it has been done before. How much did AcTi tell you about what was going on before hand and when?

[Chief Savage Man]

Shame. I just want TIO to get tonked.

[Little Fame Monster]

[quote name='Chief Savage Man' timestamp='1289082023' post='2504319']
Shame. I just want TIO to get tonked.
[/quote]

I'm sorry to disappoint you. Oh well, there's always another time I suppose.

[deathman1212]

[quote name='Aeternos Astramora' timestamp='1289079000' post='2504259']
Well, the only way for this to grow is for Conclave to get involved on an aggressive action by using an ODP (which doesn't make sense), then my alliance Argent getting involved to help them (which, as we discussed with them not even a week ago, if an outside treaty pulls them into a war, we are not obligated to get involved; they are at the stage where they can almost come out of the protectorate), and then Polar would have to get involved. Even that wouldn't spiral out of control unless Argent got TOP, Umbrella, IRON, FCC, OMFG, or VE involved, but all of those are non-chaining.

It's a really, really unlikely series of steps.


Non-chaining.
[/quote]

Sorry to pour water on the embers of this idea too for anyone wanting a war. But the non-chaining clause in the Argent charter makes this impossible. Even if not stated, ALL Argent treaties are non-chaining.

[Synesi]

[quote name='The Big Bad' timestamp='1289081789' post='2504311']
I am not sure how you would enter an agressive war through a PIAT anyway, alhough it has been done before. How much did AcTi tell you about what was going on before hand and when?
[/quote]

AcTi leadership informed us of their plans for war, though specifics were not given as to whom they would be attacking, the information contained in this announcement was told to Battalion before the DoW was posted.

[LittleRena]

[quote name='Aeternos Astramora' timestamp='1289079000' post='2504259']
Non-chaining.
[/quote]

Optional treties don't chain anyway also [url=http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=94046]no non-chaining[/url] clause. The chaining clauses I have seen in MDPs state that in the event of chaining, it becomes Optional Defense.

[lordliam]

I don't get it. What's so bad about a crap alliance cancelling a crap treaty with another crap alliance involved in a crap war?

[LittleRena]

ConC didn't cancel, they just stated they where staying out and will help with rebuilding, lol, which is still a good thing and as already stated, it's more useful.

[lordliam]

[quote name='LittleRena' timestamp='1289085222' post='2504361']
ConC didn't cancel, they just stated they where staying out and will help with rebuilding, lol, which is still a good thing and as already stated, it's more useful.
[/quote]
"We're going to sit and watch you get beat up. But it's ok because we're going to lend you our band-aids and call the ambulance if you're still alive afterwards."

[The Big Bad]

[quote name='Synesi' timestamp='1289083405' post='2504342']
AcTi leadership informed us of their plans for war, though specifics were not given as to whom they would be attacking, the information contained in this announcement was told to Battalion before the DoW was posted.
[/quote]

They did not even tell you who they were attacking? Did they ask for help? Did they tell you why they were attacking?

[Omniscient1]

People would have complained no matter what you would have done. Don't listen to the haters and keep going. Good move overall.

[New Frontier]

Thank God someone will be willing to buy their tech!

[Jewelangel]

[quote name='Omniscient1' timestamp='1289086023' post='2504381']
People would have complained no matter what you would have done. Don't listen to the haters and keep going. Good move overall.
[/quote]
The Omniscient one speaks the truth.

[Stefano Palmieri]

Wow, you guys are almost as pathetic as DB4D.

Edited November 7, 2010 by Stefano Palmieri