Which alliances are the most likely to start the next big war?

[KagetheSecond]

[quote name='wilhelm the demented' date='14 July 2010 - 06:01 PM' timestamp='1279155668' post='2371904']
Considering we were fighting six different alliances, we needed someone to take the heat off of our backs while we focused on more important fronts.
[/quote]
That wasn't the point of my post. The point was that you LOOK weak. That's why you have people trolling you.

Edited July 15, 2010 by KagetheSecond

[Olaf Styke]

[quote name='KagetheSecond' date='14 July 2010 - 07:52 PM' timestamp='1279155158' post='2371894']
Oh I know. If you didn't occupy TOOL, they'd eventually be able to overwhelm some other part of the front. That rhetoric is usually directed towards Sparta because your performance has been lacking when compared to other people, and you're easy targets to troll. Umbrella, PC, FOK, etc hulk smashed pretty much everyone they came across, while Sparta hit some snags. For example, did you really need to call in AO and TCI against us? Probably not. But because you did, it made you guys look weak. The peanut gallery always goes for that weak looking group. Accept that, and improve to spite all of your detractors.
[/quote]

The problem is, this perception that we did poorly during the war isn't warranted. On the contrary, Sparta's initial assault on IRON and TOP was a tremendous success, and it took alot of heat of of C&G so that they could deliver the knockout blow to many of those nations. We essentially dived in front of the bullet. Immediately after TOP & IRON & Co. declared, we counter-declared, and within about half an hour we had over 100 wars declared on them.

People seem to conveniently forget that we were engaged with 6 alliances, grappling with TOP and IRON's top tier most of the time. People look at the amount of NS we lost and say 'Sparta must suck', and conveniently ignore the reason WHY we lost what we did.

There is no way Sparta could have survived without the help of fresh nations from AO and TCI, and the stalwart help of MK, who we're eternally grateful to for tipping the balance against TOP's top tier, who were a nightmare for us... but that was all part of the plan anyway. Yeah we took a beating, but it was a necessary one to buy our coalition time and to take back the initiative, part of a grand strategy to engineer a C&G victory, and I'll gladly throw away another 6 million NS to help C&G win the next war. That's the price of loyalty, and that's the price of victory.

Edited July 15, 2010 by Olaf Styke

[Kzoppistan]

As others stated, it is almost impossible to predict what might spark a global war unless the one doing the guessing is also one of the principal actors involved. Since military conquest by a larger alliance against a smaller one simply because of a inequity of power generally doesn't result in a profitable outcome, especially in light of the treaty connection, it takes a reason that can't be ignored. While those reasons aren't random, they occur in such a way that, unless you know about things going on that are war worthy, it will seem to come out of the blue. Souring foreign relations rarely indicate who will start a war, but only the drift of the FA of the alliances.

As for Sparta, meh, don't care. 5th rank is pretty impressive, but other than that, nothing about them stands out.

Edited July 15, 2010 by Kzoppistan

[supercoolyellow]

[quote name='Olaf Styke' date='14 July 2010 - 08:05 PM' timestamp='1279155903' post='2371911']
I'll gladly throw away another 6 million NS to help C&G win the next war. That's the price of loyalty, and that's the price of victory.
[/quote]

I'd rather you not

... that's assuming MCXA finds herself on the wrong end of CnG again.

edit: daaang, the different between "I'd rather you now", and "I'd rather you not" is quite stark.

Edited July 15, 2010 by supercoolyellow

[rsoxbronco1]

[quote name='Olaf Styke' date='14 July 2010 - 09:05 PM' timestamp='1279155903' post='2371911']
The problem is, this perception that we did poorly during the war isn't warranted. On the contrary, Sparta's initial assault on IRON and TOP was a tremendous success, and it took alot of heat of of C&G so that they could deliver the knockout blow to many of those nations. We essentially dived in front of the bullet. Immediately after TOP & IRON & Co. declared, we counter-declared, and within about half an hour we had over 100 wars declared on them.

People seem to conveniently forget that we were engaged with 6 alliances, grappling with TOP and IRON's top tier most of the time. People look at the amount of NS we lost and say 'Sparta must suck', and conveniently ignore the reason WHY we lost what we did.

There is no way Sparta could have survived without the help of fresh nations from AO and TCI, and the stalwart help of MK, who we're eternally grateful to for tipping the balance against TOP's top tier, who were a nightmare for us... but that was all part of the plan anyway. Yeah we took a beating, but it was a necessary one to buy our coalition time and to take back the initiative, part of a grand strategy to engineer a C&G victory, and I'll gladly throw away another 6 million NS to help C&G win the next war. That's the price of loyalty, and that's the price of victory.
[/quote]
No that couldn't possibly be it. You definitely played no role at all in winning the war.



You know you're doing something right when you support your allies and it earns you the scorn of Remnants.

[Style #386]

I really don't understand this Sparta hate. They were absolutely integral to our success against IRON and particularly TOP, courtesy of a formidable upper tier (there were maybe two that stayed in peace mode, which is about par with most large alliances). This is incontrovertible.

I also have little doubt that Sparta will be at ODN's side regardless of the probable outcome of the next war. I can't imagine signing with them under any other conditions.

I don't see the point in [color=blue]useless third parties[/color] attempting to make judgment calls on matters they have demonstrated minimal knowledge on. I could spout on about how GGA was the core of the Continuum, but then I'd sound almost as dumb as they do.

On topic, I agree with the general sentiment that some small to mid-sized alliance with little to lose will spark something that will escalate unnecessarily when one side realizes that it has the upper hand.

Edited July 15, 2010 by Style #386

[BlkAK47_002]

[quote name='Style #386' date='14 July 2010 - 10:28 PM' timestamp='1279160882' post='2372038']
I don't see the point in [color=blue]useless third parties[/color] attempting to make judgment calls on matters they have demonstrated minimal knowledge on. I could spout on about how GGA was the core of the Continuum, but then I'd sound almost as dumb as they do.

[/quote]
Wow people are actually taking that statement seriously.

[Shodemofi-NPO]

In answer to the thread title, NAAC.

A guy can hope can't he?

[Alterego]

I know the target of SGs next beatdown. I just dont know the excuse they will use or even if they will bother.

[kriekfreak]

I've fought alongside of a few Spartans myself against TOP, some did very poor and some did ok but none of them communicated properly with the other people on those TOP targets. However, they were essential to keep those TOP guys in warmode so all in all I think Sparta was very helpful on that specific front.

[Ryuzaki]

[quote name='Alterego' date='15 July 2010 - 09:36 PM' timestamp='1279182998' post='2372609']
I know the target of SGs next beatdown. I just dont know the excuse they will use or even if they will bother.
[/quote]

Ha. Don't make me laugh.

[Haflinger]

[quote name='wilhelm the demented' date='14 July 2010 - 07:48 PM' timestamp='1279151298' post='2371789']
Those words are practically synonymous.
[/quote]
No, they're not. Contempt is lack of respect. Hatred implies actually caring.

[quote name='wilhelm the demented' date='14 July 2010 - 07:48 PM' timestamp='1279151298' post='2371789']
Further, I would argue that hatred is more accurate - whereas contempt is the state of disapproval, disrespect, or disdain - it has nothing to do with wishing harm, destruction, or other such wanton, nasty things as hate does.
[/quote]
Yes, that was my point. And you're wrong. Nobody hates you. That's what I said.

[quote name='wilhelm the demented' date='14 July 2010 - 09:01 PM' timestamp='1279155668' post='2371904']
Considering we were fighting six different alliances, we needed someone to take the heat off of our backs while we focused on more important fronts.
[/quote]
lol, six alliances. You guys are a sanctioned alliance, and BAPS declared war on Nueva Vida in the middle of the war despite having a lot more than six alliances.

Start doing stuff like that and you'll earn some respect.

[quote name='Style #386' date='14 July 2010 - 10:28 PM' timestamp='1279160882' post='2372038']
I don't see the point in [color=blue]useless third parties[/color] attempting to make judgment calls on matters they have demonstrated minimal knowledge on. I could spout on about how GGA was the core of the Continuum, but then I'd sound almost as dumb as they do.
[/quote]
GGA wasn't in the Continuum.

[Lusitan]

[quote name='kriekfreak' date='15 July 2010 - 10:43 AM' timestamp='1279186993' post='2372646']
I've fought alongside of a few Spartans myself against TOP, some did very poor and some did ok but none of them communicated properly with the other people on those TOP targets. However, they were essential to keep those TOP guys in warmode so all in all I think Sparta was very helpful on that specific front.
[/quote]

I think most people's point in this thread is that Sparta indeed do good meatshields and little more.

[Daikos]

[quote name='Alterego' date='15 July 2010 - 04:36 AM' timestamp='1279182998' post='2372609']
I know the target of SGs next beatdown. I just dont know the excuse they will use or even if they will bother.
[/quote]

And we're all so proud of you for figuring it out.

[shahenshah]

[quote name='Lusitan' date='15 July 2010 - 06:05 PM' timestamp='1279199129' post='2372762']
I think most people's point in this thread is that Sparta indeed do good meatshields and little more.
[/quote]

*ting ting ting* we have a winner.

Problem occurs when Sparta tries to oversell itself and nobody buys it. Sparta improved alot since Karma, but you know, if you just exaggerate to unrealistic proportions, people even doubt the minimum facts. Fact is Sparta improved alot, they were certainly not amongst the worst performers like last war, (I think that'll goto WAPA) but you were in no way amongst the better performers either. Sell the facts Sparta, they actually shed a positive light, honest.

[Daimos]

My money is on GOD due to recent events and Athens due to past events.

[Gamemaster1]

[quote name='Olaf Styke' date='14 July 2010 - 05:05 PM' timestamp='1279141500' post='2371531']
You can complain all you want, there is no getting around the fact we won. Weather it be by having more allies or fighting better, it comes down to the same thing: We played the game better. There is no other explanation.
[/quote]
Ok, this made me laugh. Our nations didn't even outnumber you by that much [i]when we declared[/i]. Each alliance that attacked you was then dogpiled by other alliances. Even then, it still took VE to come in and take each alliance out one by one. I'm not saying that our side was great fighters, but really. It wasn't because you fought better.

You'd look a lot better as an alliance if you would just accept that your nations aren't the best fighters. You just end up looking silly by trying to claim they were actually good.

But yeah...I kinda want to say some small, barely connected alliance. It just so happens that one of those connections is a bloc, or something.

Edited July 15, 2010 by Gamemaster1

[lebubu]

[quote name='Alterego' date='15 July 2010 - 10:36 AM' timestamp='1279182998' post='2372609']
I know the target of SGs next beatdown. I just dont know the excuse they will use or even if they will bother.
[/quote]

It's BAPS. The CB is you.

[Olaf Styke]

[quote name='Gamemaster1' date='15 July 2010 - 09:16 AM' timestamp='1279203356' post='2372819']
Ok, this made me laugh. Our nations didn't even outnumber you by that much [i]when we declared[/i]. Each alliance that attacked you was then dogpiled by other alliances. Even then, it still took VE to come in and take each alliance out one by one. I'm not saying that our side was great fighters, but really. It wasn't because you fought better.

You'd look a lot better as an alliance if you would just accept that your nations aren't the best fighters. You just end up looking silly by trying to claim they were actually good.

But yeah...I kinda want to say some small, barely connected alliance. It just so happens that one of those connections is a bloc, or something.
[/quote]

Move on with your life, the war ended months ago. It's apparently too much to ask for people to stop desperately trying to discredit the victors, and instead, like good sports, planning for the next war and learning from their mistakes.

Do yourselves a favour and forget it ever happened.

If you'd put half as much effort in to the war as you have trying to discredit Sparta, you'd have won.

Edited July 15, 2010 by Olaf Styke

[Lusitan]

[quote name='Olaf Styke' date='15 July 2010 - 07:40 PM' timestamp='1279219218' post='2373215']
Move on with your life, the war ended months ago. It's apparently too much to ask for people to stop desperately trying to discredit the victors, and instead, like good sports, planning for the next war and learning from their mistakes.

Do yourselves a favour and forget it ever happened.

If you'd put half as much effort in to the war as you have trying to discredit Sparta, you'd have won.
[/quote]

Well, I speak for myself, but by looking at the treaty web and the ammount of treaties being amassed by SuperFriends and Complaints & Grievances it doesn't make me want to plan for the next war, it makes me want to sit in my corner, build up my nukes and WRCs and pray no one slips up and gives SG any sort of CB that would get everyone that is not with them rolled again. I remember feeling something similar in the hardcore Continuum and BLEU times, granted at the time all the treaty partners would just cancel or ignore treaties, so it improved a bit though not thanks to the status quo.

To say that any sort of effort put into war would have changed anything is simply delusional. Two alliances could have changed the outcome of the war had they not done what they did: New Polar Order and The Order of Paradox. And only them.

EDIT: I don't think anyone ever attributed much credit to Sparta - except maybe as backstabber of NPO in Karma, I'll give you that - , so I am not sure where you picked the discredit from.

Edited July 15, 2010 by Lusitan

[Olaf Styke]

[quote name='Lusitan' date='15 July 2010 - 02:14 PM' timestamp='1279221248' post='2373277']
Well, I speak for myself, but by looking at the treaty web and the ammount of treaties being amassed by SuperFriends and Complaints & Grievances it doesn't make me want to plan for the next war, it makes me want to sit in my corner, build up my nukes and WRCs and pray no one slips up and gives SG any sort of CB that would get everyone that is not with them rolled again. I remember feeling something similar in the hardcore Continuum and BLEU times, granted at the time all the treaty partners would just cancel or ignore treaties, so it improved a bit though not thanks to the status quo.

To say that any sort of effort put into war would have changed anything is simply delusional. Two alliances could have changed the outcome of the war had they not done what they did: New Polar Order and The Order of Paradox. And only them.

EDIT: I don't think anyone ever attributed much credit to Sparta - except maybe as backstabber of NPO in Karma, I'll give you that - , so I am not sure where you picked the discredit from.
[/quote]

I would welcome the chance to sit here gathering strength and not have to lose it over some petty CB. If anything C&G and SF's overwhelming dominance of CN is a good thing, there aren't many alliance spoiling for a fight in either of those blocs. A complete lack of counterbalance to SF & C&G is good for peace, so if their opponents don't want to sit back and plan the next war, frankly, I welcome it.

In any case I didn't mean it literally, that if our detractors put half as much effort as they do in insulting us into the war they'd have won, I was just trying to illustrate a point that they waste a colossal amount of energy trying to get under our skin and discredit us to the rest of the world, energies much better spent devoted to the betterment of their own alliance. Obviously once TOP had made the ill-advised move of DoWing C&G and NpO pulled out it was virtually inevitable that our coalition would win.

As for people trying to discredit Sparta, you need only look in any thread remotely related to us (or scroll up and read posts by RV or Halfinger etc., the usual people), inevitably RV or somebody will barge in and derail the thread completely by ranting and raving about how terrible an alliance we are and how we've never done anything worth mentioning. Just watch Sparta threads (treaties, announcements etc.), it's impossible to miss. In any case I have to agree with my esteemed co-Sovereign and our allies, that if we're drawing this much fire, we must be doing something right.

[Lusitan]

[quote name='Olaf Styke' date='15 July 2010 - 08:52 PM' timestamp='1279223537' post='2373327']
I would welcome the chance to sit here gathering strength and not have to lose it over some petty CB. If anything C&G and SF's overwhelming dominance of CN is a good thing, there aren't many alliance spoiling for a fight in either of those blocs. A complete lack of counterbalance to SF & C&G is good for peace, so if their opponents don't want to sit back and plan the next war, frankly, I welcome it.
[/quote]

I thought the "NPO IS RUINING THE GAME" was exactly about that. People being too afraid to do anything because defeat was overwhelmingly obvious whatever was done. End result is game stagnation.


[quote]In any case I didn't mean it literally, that if our detractors put half as much effort as they do in insulting us into the war they'd have won, I was just trying to illustrate a point that they waste a colossal amount of energy trying to get under our skin and discredit us to the rest of the world, energies much better spent devoted to the betterment of their own alliance. Obviously once TOP had made the ill-advised move of DoWing C&G and NpO pulled out it was virtually inevitable that our coalition would win.[/quote]

Remember Doitzel's recommendation about what CN needed 2 years ago? Tighter lips and [b]thicker skin[/b]. I am not sure what is your problem with people trying to discredit Sparta, unless you think they might be succesful. If you do, I'll tell you one thing, you're not making any real difference.

[quote]As for people trying to discredit Sparta, you need only look in any thread remotely related to us (or scroll up and read posts by RV or Halfinger etc., the usual people), inevitably RV or somebody will barge in and derail the thread completely by ranting and raving about how terrible an alliance we are and how we've never done anything worth mentioning. Just watch Sparta threads (treaties, announcements etc.), it's impossible to miss. In any case I have to agree with my esteemed co-Sovereign and our allies, that if we're drawing this much fire, we must be doing something right.[/quote]

I know perfectty well what is said about Sparta, but I disagree about what you say of drawing fire = doing it right. Do you see FOK, Umbrella, VE or Poison Clan threads being targeted as yours? Predators, whatever the sort, always go for the weakest available option. Instead of burying your head in the sand like GGA did over one year ago, you should start asking yourself why people think you're the weakest link and either do something about it or stop public demonstrations of "We don't know and we don't care, we must be doing it right". That'll only make people laugh at you.

[Jgoods45]

[quote name='Daimos' date='15 July 2010 - 08:07 AM' timestamp='1279202803' post='2372810']
My money is on GOD due to recent events and Athens due to past events.
[/quote]

What? Why would we do such a thing?

But seriously, It won't be us. We will just chain in through our treaties.

[Buds The Man]

[quote name='Jgoods45' date='15 July 2010 - 04:10 PM' timestamp='1279224629' post='2373348']
What? Why would we do such a thing?

But seriously, It won't be us. We will just chain in through our treaties.
[/quote]
cuz your athens

I vote for GOD/Goons/Kronos

[Olaf Styke]

[quote name='Lusitan' date='15 July 2010 - 03:06 PM' timestamp='1279224367' post='2373343']
I thought the "NPO IS RUINING THE GAME" was exactly about that. People being too afraid to do anything because defeat was overwhelmingly obvious whatever was done. End result is game stagnation.[/quote]
All the more reason for the other side to buck up and start planning the next war, [u]like I said.[/u]

[quote]
Remember Doitzel's recommendation about what CN needed 2 years ago? Tighter lips and [b]thicker skin[/b]. I am not sure what is your problem with people trying to discredit Sparta, unless you think they might be succesful. If you do, I'll tell you one thing, you're not making any real difference.[/quote]

You're not sure what my problem is with people insulting my alliance? Gee, that's a mellon scratcher right there...

[quote]
I know perfectty well what is said about Sparta, but I disagree about what you say of drawing fire = doing it right. Do you see FOK, Umbrella, VE or Poison Clan threads being targeted as yours? Predators, whatever the sort, always go for the weakest available option. Instead of burying your head in the sand like GGA did over one year ago, you should start asking yourself why people think you're the weakest link and either do something about it or stop public demonstrations of "We don't know and we don't care, we must be doing it right". That'll only make people laugh at you.
[/quote]

I know perfectly well why Sparta is being targeted, and it's not because we're the weakest link, it's because we're the strongest link. Sparta has a huge number of MDP+ treaties spread between SF and C&G; GoD, RIA, and FARK on the one side, ODN, Athens, and FoB on the other. Sure, both those blocs have plenty of other relations to one another, but Sparta is a big part of the C&G-SF community, and the biggest common link between the two. Discredit Sparta enough to SF and C&G, get them believing the ridiculous crap about us being traitors and backstabbers, people unworthy of friendship, and you may just break Sparta off of both blocs. Break Sparta off, and not only does the SuperGrievances community lose one of it's heavy hitters, it also loses the strongest link between them, and then you may just have a chance to separate them; divide and conquer.

It may be a long shot, but given the situation, I'm sure our opponents believe it's a plan worth trying. Are they succeeding? Only time will tell.