The Worst of Leadership

[Byron Orpheus]

[quote name='TypoNinja' date='04 June 2010 - 12:28 AM' timestamp='1275607673' post='2322665']
. Often more so since holding up an example of what the worst that could happen is tends to motivate people more.
[/quote]
That's true. GGA is motivated by the desire to never disband, since I don't think we could live with ourselves after giving up on our alliance.

[TypoNinja]

[quote name='Byron Orpheus' date='03 June 2010 - 07:31 PM' timestamp='1275607854' post='2322676']
That's true. GGA is motivated by the desire to never disband, since I don't think we could live with ourselves after giving up on our alliance.
[/quote]

Seems to have worked out better for us than you in the long run. Which brings us back on topic.

In my opinion the mark of a bad leader is one who is unwilling to recognize when he has no good choices. Sometimes you must choose between bad and worse and then make the best of it. Those unwilling to do so invariably fail their alliance. Those who can recognize their chance to roll with the punches are the ones who will flourish.

Which follows up to my other strong opinion on leadership, decisions. Those who allow indecision to paralyze themselves also make terrible leaders. The wrong decision now is still better than no decision at all.

[Byron Orpheus]

[quote name='TypoNinja' date='04 June 2010 - 12:38 AM' timestamp='1275608273' post='2322696']
Seems to have worked out better for us than you in the long run. Which brings us back on topic.
[/quote]

We disbanded? Even if we had (which I'm 100 percent sure we haven't), how did it work out for you?

[TypoNinja]

[quote name='Byron Orpheus' date='03 June 2010 - 07:39 PM' timestamp='1275608361' post='2322698']
We disbanded? Even if we had (which I'm 100 percent sure we haven't), how did it work out for you?
[/quote]

Edit: Arrgh, never mind, not gonna derail this thread.

Edited June 3, 2010 by TypoNinja

[Bob Janova]

Just look at the definitions of a [i]good[/i] leader; someone missing one or more of those qualities will be a bad leader.

A good leader should be decisive, but take advice to avoid making a bad decision; confident, but not hubristic; assertive, but not aggressive (aggression is one of the quickest ways to turn your alliance into a crater in most cases); active and politically involved; and able to delegate where necessary. And of course they must have the insight to be able to see what the choices open to them are and which will produce a good outcome, and as Typo says recognise that sometimes there are no good ones, but take the least worst, and make it as good as possible. (From my own history, Grämlins' entry into Karma would be an example of that. And Grämlins current insistence on [i]not[/i] taking the small pride hit instead of the destruction of their alliance by taking white peace from IRON is a good example of an inability to do this.)

Show me a catastrophe of an alliance from the dustbin of history and I'll show you that the leadership lacked most of those things.

[Van Hoo III]

[quote name='Tautology' date='03 June 2010 - 03:37 PM' timestamp='1275604613' post='2322576']
And we have plans to coup him for several years to come. We take couping Hoo very seriously.
[/quote]


The day you guys stop making coup attempts, is the day I step down ... again.

[Believland]

Not trying to get better today.

[Schad]

I'd say that lack of preparation would be the biggest one. You can have a leader who makes excellent decisions on the fly, has tremendous diplomatic skills, and is revered by their charges, but if they don't put in place systems during peacetime to ensure that every member below is prepared, it's all for naught. With most conflicts going global almost overnight, trouble finds you in this world regardless, and while a terrible leader can get their alliance destroyed by their external actions pretty quickly, failure to manage internal affairs (even if it's nothing more than putting in place a support structure to deal with that stuff while the leader is gallivanting around the diplomatic scene) will bring about an even faster end.

[Rebel Virginia]

[quote name='supercoolyellow' date='03 June 2010 - 11:04 AM' timestamp='1275577431' post='2322100']
Doesn't NSO let just about anyone to a more extreme than MK? Also, its kinda ironic to accuse the most active alliance in CN of letting anyone in, isn't it?
[/quote]
[color="#0000FF"]NSO did it from the start. Made it part of its identiy. MK on the other hand used to be a very selective alliance, and no lets any riff-raff in. Doesn't matter if they're active or not. Riff-raff will always be riff-raff.

Also, as I am sure you can see the character and quality of the NSO has not changed over the years. MK on the other hand has become unbearably arrogant. It has forgotten its roots.

Yes, there we have it. Another fault in governance. A forgetting of where you came from. Losing your identity. Any leader worth a dime is sure to at least try to preserve the essence of an alliance. Sure things change over time, but the fundamentals never should.

Also, do note that I would have let this issue drop had ol' Voyey not gone out of his way to make a slant at the NSO. Don't try to deny it. It is painfully obvious, and fairly ironic that you consider a personality cult a bad thing. You are in the MK after all. Furthermore, an alliance based around a center can work quite well. Take the NpO of old for example? Back when Sponge was leading it. I miss that alliance.[/color]

[Voytek]

[quote name='Rebel Virginia' date='04 June 2010 - 11:18 AM' timestamp='1275614281' post='2322855']Also, do note that I would have let this issue drop had ol' Voyey not gone out of his way to make a slant at the NSO. Don't try to deny it. It is painfully obvious, and fairly ironic that you consider a personality cult a bad thing. You are in the MK after all. Furthermore, an alliance based around a center can work quite well. Take the NpO of old for example? Back when Sponge was leading it. I miss that alliance.[/color][/quote]

You've said you won't believe me but I'll say it anyway: it wasn't NSO that I was primarily thinking of when I made that post.

[SoADarthCyfe6]

I am quite surprised that not many have not yet to bring up a key trait that no leader should allow to judge their decision making.

That is purely emotion. An emotionally ran leader will make poor choices off of hatred, grudges, anger, quick information, judgement and etc. If you allow emotion to affect the decision making then you will not make a just decision at all. A leader who will not let emotions cloud their judgement will always produce better choices and the right choices.

A leader who will listen to people and act in their mutual interest makes a good leader.

[supercoolyellow]

Actually I have come to the conclusion that there is one trait far worse for a leader than any other.


[size="5"][font="Impact"][color="#FF0000"]Being a[/color][color="#0000FF"] Duke[/color] [color="#FF0000"]fan[/color].[/font][/size]

Edited June 4, 2010 by supercoolyellow

[JWConner]

There are many things that one can point to as qualities of a bad leader. Procrastination, immaturity, egocentricity...just to name a few. A bad leader is one who refuses to remove themselves from a situation and look at things from more than one angle. Being narrow-minded can only lead your alliance down dark paths. You have to be willing to make compromises and listen to your government. A good leader surrounds himself/herself with other leaders who aren't afraid to challenge their decisions in a respectful manner. A bad leader surrounds themselves with "yes men".
Poor leaders believe their way is [i]the[/i] way to handle things. They refuse to admit wrongdoings and are too prideful and arrogant.
A good leader will eat their pride to better suit their alliance.

In the end, a bad leader always puts their own self-interest above the interest of the alliance as a whole.

[ChairmanHal]

[quote name='lonewolfe2015' date='03 June 2010 - 11:11 AM' timestamp='1275577899' post='2322109']
I like this list very much, and I think if we were to ever compile a "How to Successfully lead an alliance on Bob" thread, it should go in there.

However Hal, I think you're missing one key point. And that is that many if not all of us have never lead anything remotely similar to the alliances on Bob before we arrived here. There is a learning curve, steeper for some than others.
[/quote]

Planet Bob is many things...a place of learning with regard to leadership, organizational behavior, communications, and essential management skills...if you are only willing to absorb the material presented to you.

[TypoNinja]

[quote name='SoADarthCyfe6' date='03 June 2010 - 11:08 PM' timestamp='1275620875' post='2323021']
I am quite surprised that not many have not yet to bring up a key trait that no leader should allow to judge their decision making.

That is purely emotion. An emotionally ran leader will make poor choices off of hatred, grudges, anger, quick information, judgement and etc. If you allow emotion to affect the decision making then you will not make a just decision at all. A leader who will not let emotions cloud their judgement will always produce better choices and the right choices.

A leader who will listen to people and act in their mutual interest makes a good leader.
[/quote]

I don't entirely agree, while its obvious that making decisions based solely on emotion is a bad thing the polar opposite is just as bad I think.

A leader with no passion, no spirit, will have no drive. We look to our leaders for inspiration and direction. A computer does not inspire loyalty or devotion.

Similarly we are often forced to make decisions on incomplete information, in these cases our intuition and feelings come into play.

One should of course strive to eliminate bias, but it is our emotions, our feelings, and our personal drive that makes us individuals, and it is the desire to reach for those goals that we are driven to by our passions that separate the merely competent leaders from the great leaders.

[Jrenster]

To me, in this realm, there's only risks. Good decisions, bad decisions, no decisions. One can only devote so much emotional effort into a world such as this.

[Wadsworth]

[quote name='Rebel Virginia' date='03 June 2010 - 09:18 PM' timestamp='1275614281' post='2322855']
[color="#0000FF"] Furthermore, an alliance based around a center can work quite well. Take the NpO of old for example? Back when Sponge was leading it. I miss that alliance.[/color]
[/quote]

Because that ended so well.

[Qaianna]

[quote name='Rebel Virginia' date='03 June 2010 - 08:18 PM' timestamp='1275614281' post='2322855']
(issues with the Mushroom Kingdom's system snipped)

Furthermore, an alliance based around a center can work quite well. Take the NpO of old for example? Back when Sponge was leading it. I miss that alliance.
[/quote]

The problem here comes when that centre leaves, and there's nothing left to take its place. At that point, you have ... if lucky, another person who can take that role him- or herself. If not? We've seen a few alliances end up on that road, sadly.

Honestly, I think one thing that ends up reinforcing bad leaders, and making other possibly good ones bad, could be experience. Granted, we can't let anyone off the street have the keys to Francograd on the off chance he'll have a mid-tier alliance under his wing, but a good ladder system internally can help. See how things work, get a feel for what can happen and what the current crop has to deal with. If you like what you see and can do so internally, great! If you know it's gonna be over your head, take a few more months at where you are; no problem!

However, talent in and of itself won't do. Some things you just have to learn on the job, and in that case it's best to get the rookie mistakes out of the way while it's small. A mistake made while running, say, a trade circle won't have the same effect as running, say, the whole alliance.

[KainIIIC]

[quote name='Voytek' date='03 June 2010 - 08:24 PM' timestamp='1275614674' post='2322860']
You've said you won't believe me but I'll say it anyway: it wasn't NSO that I was primarily thinking of when I made that post.
[/quote]

To be honest, having read plenty of your OWF posts, it was like a 3/4 chance that it was about us... especially considering our fame as an idol-worshiping alliance


In my opinion, I've always disliked the qualities in a leader that leads to a creation of his/her own social group/circle extending the bounds of the game, putting blatant favoritism in the way of talent, treating 'pawns' in a fake niceness, while shunning them and treating them like trash if/when they leave - this can extend into treaties. It becomes transparent after awhile.

[Hymenbreach]

[quote name='Mathias' date='03 June 2010 - 10:16 PM' timestamp='1275599752' post='2322463']
So the Legion became better leaders when they let other alliances do the leading for them?
[/quote]

I suppose. It was a distasteful medicine that had to be taken. And it worked, at least until recently.

Edited June 4, 2010 by Hymenbreach

[Maelstrom Vortex]

The worst possible leadership.. is leadership which is insane. Not insane as in being insane to be funny.. but outright mad.

I made this as a joke during what I considered to be one of CN's periods of madness:

[img]http://maelstrom79.webs.com/grubcomplaint.jpg[/img]

I could not feel but compelled to do this when he practically had the entire world warring NpO during the last conflict. At the time I thought he was totally off his noggin. Never posted it on the OWF, some of my peers thought it to inflammatory. I just think it's amusing. I had not ever seen a comparable event to that day or since.

ooc: (I love the Grubb, no hard feelings. At the time we thought he was going to retire or leave the game.. I'm not sure if he ever did; hopefully not.)

back ic:(The contents in this post reflect solely my personal views and opinions and not those of the NPO.) LOL.

Edited June 4, 2010 by Maelstrom Vortex

[Kalasin]

Good leaders are not nice people. When difficult decisions arise, leaders need to have the steel to do what’s necessary, even if people dislike them for it. Despite that, leaders need to stay in touch with their membership and not treat them badly. I believe that leaders serve their people, not the other way round. ODN’s cool like that. I love our democratic system.

Therefore, leaders also need the capacity to be kind-hearted. It’s rather paradoxical. People who don’t fit this description are not effective leaders. I suppose a triumvirate or two-leader system could work, if one leader is a total dick and the other’s a nice guy.

(nice topic by the way. )

[lonewolfe2015]

[quote name='ChairmanHal' date='04 June 2010 - 12:23 AM' timestamp='1275625391' post='2323111']
Planet Bob is many things...a place of learning with regard to leadership, organizational behavior, communications, and essential management skills...if you are only willing to absorb the material presented to you.
[/quote]

This is very true, even to this day I'm still learning useful things to further help Asgaard when my time permits.

(OOC: It has taught me how to use forums, basic CSS and HTML as well as using IRC)

[Byron Orpheus]

[quote name='TypoNinja' date='04 June 2010 - 05:38 AM' timestamp='1275626312' post='2323133']
I don't entirely agree, while its obvious that making decisions based solely on emotion is a bad thing the polar opposite is just as bad I think.

A leader with no passion, no spirit, will have no drive. We look to our leaders for inspiration and direction. A computer does not inspire loyalty or devotion.

Similarly we are often forced to make decisions on incomplete information, in these cases our intuition and feelings come into play.

One should of course strive to eliminate bias, but it is our emotions, our feelings, and our personal drive that makes us individuals, and it is the desire to reach for those goals that we are driven to by our passions that separate the merely competent leaders from the great leaders.
[/quote]
I agree with Typo, actually.

[SoADarthCyfe6]

[quote name='TypoNinja' date='04 June 2010 - 12:38 AM' timestamp='1275626312' post='2323133']
I don't entirely agree, while its obvious that making decisions based solely on emotion is a bad thing the polar opposite is just as bad I think.

A leader with no passion, no spirit, will have no drive. We look to our leaders for inspiration and direction. A computer does not inspire loyalty or devotion.

Similarly we are often forced to make decisions on incomplete information, in these cases our intuition and feelings come into play.

One should of course strive to eliminate bias, but it is our emotions, our feelings, and our personal drive that makes us individuals, and it is the desire to reach for those goals that we are driven to by our passions that separate the merely competent leaders from the great leaders.
[/quote]


More is what I mean about emotions id the defense mechanisms that activate when you read something you do not particularly like. The good type of emotion is more so of the Heart then emotions. When it comes to decision making, emotions are just better off left out of decision making. Emotions should only come in when your thinking of the future good of your alliance. For example, the excitement of going through the process of signing a big treaty with somebody or watching your alliance grow and performing a lot of tech deals. Thats when you should let emotions come in, to give you the happiness.