Byron Orpheus

Dead, alive only in our hearts.

This should be interesting.

I didn't drink the VE is evil koolaid, I drank the "I don't really care about them" koolaid. In fact, if you look at the very early logs before things really started to go south, I consistently tried to patch up relations between our alliances. But considering that Typo and I had a long conversation about how neither alliance wanted anything to do with the other (other than try to remain civil, but basically a policy of ignoring), it was strange that Ken kept in touch. Not that I am accusing him of spying or anything (him posting every log he could get his hands on to VE or whomever else isn't spying because no one asked for it), but he clearly didn't have the best interests of the alliance in mind. Now, we all know everyone's source of logs is Ken, so I'm sure that I am some sort of monster/incompetent leader/maniac in the eyes of those who think Ken's theories are the only theories, but the truth is much more mundane, really. We were all just under a lot of pressure, Dem to lead, me to aid him in that task, and the ministers to keep the alliance going, and it all came to a head over a stupid incident. The only thing I'm guilty of is staying loyal to my alliance and keeping my opinions to myself, the same as I did when JB was in office, other than some private conversations. I value both in myself and in other alliance members (no matter the alliance) the ability to keep criticisms in private and project solidarity to the rest of the world and to the general membership. That doesn't mean "banning" people for expressing their opinion, it means the government projecting solidarity and attempting to calm members that are upset, and the government members themselves expressing any sort of problems privately. If that makes me some sort of tyrant (and I do have to wonder why I am the scapegoat in all of this, considering I wasn't online during anything but the end, not to mention didn't have any real power, other than emergency power and organizational duties, in the alliance is beyond me, but I guess somehow it was all my fault), then so be it.

[quote name='Andre27' timestamp='1280263382' post='2391576'] As i understand, Dementual wanted to retire and as a replacement he tried to get JB to take his place. Both GM and allies would not stand for this. The majority of ministers resigned. Although i have not heard anything about this i assume the GM would not accept Byron (GGA Regent) as their supreme leader and in the end the path was chosen for disbandment. When there is no upper and lower government, there are few places left to go. [/quote] That is so far from the truth it is retarded. Jonathan Brookbank approached us because he wanted to retire, and wanted GGA to have his NS. Some people were under the impression that he was going to be back in government, and instead of quelling these rumors our PM Kenfolk decided to fan the flames until everyone got into a big argument and rage quit. I wasn't even there.

[quote name='Rickyman1984' timestamp='1280196052' post='2390629'] I'm sure that's true, and from the few interactions I've had with GGA members since this broke it did seem quite out of the blue. That one explosion of events could disband the alliance says quite a lot about the kind of precarious state it was in however. [/quote] More of a public relations/global opinion problem rather than outright numbers and government, however. There was just no way GGA could have come back from yesterday insofar as its image was concerned. [quote] ill-conceived machinations of its former leaders last night[/quote] You clearly have no idea what you are talking about. The only "machination" that occurred was that Dementual was willing to offer JB a place to retire and lend us his NS. That is as far as any devious scheming went.

Actually, yesterday was a great day and we all had an optimistic view of the future, until that evening. Everyone is interpreting our disbandment as the result of some laundry list of internal problems, but it really was just an explosion of events in one day.

Also, let me take this moment to say how much we ex-GGAers all appreciate the vultures that have been messaging us with recruitment letters: The Conservative Underground MCXA Tetris Guru Order TORN Those are the ones I have received. Stay classy.

This was not inevitable by a long shot, but things don't always have to be inevitable to happen. I have been in the GGA my entire existence, and I will never forget the community and the people who made it great, nor those who stuck with us through the trying times.

[quote name='shahenshah' timestamp='1280135779' post='2389546'] "GGA sucked under the reigns of previous govts! Only alive when we came to power" lol. Numbers say otherwise. [/quote] Are you referring to our steadily growing strength and score up until the recent leaving?

Again, please note that GGA is not doing ANYTHING here. This is some random ex-member that apparently doesn't understand he isn't in the alliance.

[quote name='ironchef' timestamp='1280128286' post='2389466'] Welcome home JB. I hope this makes you happy. And for those of you that let death back through your door I hope you die 10 times over. Its time to put this once great AA to rest. o/ the members of the GGA, may you never forget what once was. [/quote] Yeah, remember those glory days when GGA was...oh no, wait, GGA has sucked for like four years. These last few months have been the closest to alive GGA has been since the middle of this decade.

Just for the record, non-members cannot disband an alliance. Lolken

Heartfelt, and I'm glad you all will be sticking around.

congratulations to Symphony and PhR

Exactly. We have methods of removing the upper government that have already been in place, and it would be foolish for the GGA to embrace something as sinister as populism. Our members now have more freedom, at any rate.

We didn't extend the challenge system to the upper government because that is starting to sound too much like a democracy We are, however, happy to allow the members some recourse against ministers that they believe are not performing well in the position. The ministers, under the new charter, have much more say in the government and themselves act as a balance against the upper gov. Also, I think GGA is a pretty cool guy. Eh changes charters/flags and doesn't afraid of anything.

Congratulations to GATO. It is good to be able to overcome obstacles.

[quote name='Matthew PK' date='13 June 2010 - 05:15 AM' timestamp='1276402534' post='2335834'] All the past we leave behind, We debouch upon a newer mightier world, varied world, Fresh and strong the world we seize, world of labor and the march I choose not to live by the princible you claim to. [/quote] I make a pact with you, Walt Whitman - I have detested you long enough. I come to you as a grown child Who has had a pig-headed father It is your right not to live by the only principle that is objective, but sadly you cannot avoid it through wishful thinking. You alliance has reached a level of delusion that if the most insane leaders of this world, past and present, were combined into one person, that singular embodiment of delusion wouldn't be in your current position in his most feverish dreams.

That's pretty much what I gathered, and it seems such a waste to lead an alliance into what could eventually be disbanding simply because one has some sort of delusional image of one's place in the world.

[quote name='Rebel Virginia' date='13 June 2010 - 04:52 AM' timestamp='1276401130' post='2335800'] My purpose is to act as a check.[/quote] Insufficient funds. [quote]Whoever is in power must be closely scrutinized.[/quote] Why? And if there is a valid reason, what makes you think that the people who don't go on and on aren't watching and thinking instead of strutting about? [quote] Were I to let up you would have no one to call you out on your wrongs[/quote] You are right, you would make way for people to actually do something about it. [quote] and you could do unthinkable evils without fear.[/quote] Again, unthinkable evils? Really? [quote] That I cannot prevent [/quote] Fixed.

[quote name='Rebel Virginia' date='13 June 2010 - 04:43 AM' timestamp='1276400597' post='2335783'] Then we will start seeing your hands soaked in blood. [/quote] Don't you think that is a bit over the top?

[quote name='Matthew PK' date='13 June 2010 - 04:36 AM' timestamp='1276400145' post='2335770'] White peace is not acceptable to me. IRON does not hold a position on equally valid principles as I do. Of course, this is relative... which is why I said "me" and not "GRE" [/quote] At the end of the day, there is only one principle in this world-- might makes right. Anything else is purely constructed on an individual/alliance basis, and the fact is that you lack the might to get what you want.

The thing that most grabs my attention in this mammoth discussion is that Gramlins is making such demands in the first place-- there have been alliances in a much more tenable position than your current one that haven't gone nearly as far in their preace demands, so it seems to me to be a bit ridiculous for you to expect IRON to surrender to terms that will be determined after the fact, especially if what everyone says is true and IRON has much more NS than you all at the moment. I'm not sure whether this has become some sort of Stalin-esque obsession with revenge, no matter how ridiculous it makes you appear, or if it is just plain stubborness wrapped within layers of willful ignorance, but you would think that, after 190 pages and counting of people telling you that your policies are just plain crazy, you would eventually accept the fact that what you are demanding not only will never be accepted, but also that it is ludicrous for you to assume that anyone ever would accept the terms. You are taking what is, in my opinion, an unrivaled PR hit globally, yet you have decided to charge straight into the little perfect storm of insanity that you have concocted as if you had unanimous support for your actions.

Ardus, that isn't fair. I would do any number of things for a crate of candy.

Congratulations to both of you.