Kalasin Posted June 5, 2010 Report Share Posted June 5, 2010 On further reflection, I think a bad leader is a defeatist leader. Leaders need, oh I don't know, vision. I'm a bit of a cynic, so I'm not perfect in this regard by any means. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qaianna Posted June 5, 2010 Report Share Posted June 5, 2010 [quote name='Kalasin' date='04 June 2010 - 08:33 PM' timestamp='1275701583' post='2323976'] On further reflection, I think a bad leader is a defeatist leader. Leaders need, oh I don't know, vision. I'm a bit of a cynic, so I'm not perfect in this regard by any means. [/quote] I'll agree there. Of course, a defeatist leader will eventually fulfill that vision, whether desired or not Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalasin Posted June 5, 2010 Report Share Posted June 5, 2010 [quote name='Qaianna' date='04 June 2010 - 11:13 PM' timestamp='1275714783' post='2324254'] I'll agree there. Of course, a defeatist leader will eventually fulfill that vision, whether desired or not [/quote] Defeatist leaders often don't even have a vision because they've given up on their alliance, so whether they fulfil anything is debateable. But I take your point. If a leader has a vision for their alliance, it has to be a good one, so I suppose they need to be fairly intelligent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyperbad Posted June 6, 2010 Report Share Posted June 6, 2010 [quote name='TypoNinja' date='04 June 2010 - 12:38 AM' timestamp='1275626312' post='2323133'] I don't entirely agree, while its obvious that making decisions based solely on emotion is a bad thing the polar opposite is just as bad I think. A leader with no passion, no spirit, will have no drive. We look to our leaders for inspiration and direction. A computer does not inspire loyalty or devotion. Similarly we are often forced to make decisions on incomplete information, in these cases our intuition and feelings come into play. One should of course strive to eliminate bias, but it is our emotions, our feelings, and our personal drive that makes us individuals, and it is the desire to reach for those goals that we are driven to by our passions that separate the merely competent leaders from the great leaders. [/quote] There's a difference between suppressing emotions for the purpose of making an important decision and suppressing them entirely. One can think logically yet be filled with passion in what they do and inspire others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kzoppistan Posted June 7, 2010 Report Share Posted June 7, 2010 Hmm, as someone who has been in a number of leadership positions, studied leadership and have tried to improve my skills in that regard, I've also made a number of follies along the way. These I can share. 1. Acting unilaterally. Not every decision needs to be debated or have a committee made, in fact, a good minister/leader should be able to execute their duties without having to bog down or annoy others with the minutiae. That said, knowing when to act unilaterally and when to seek counsel can be a tricky call, and often only experience can determine that. When in doubt, better seek an audience. 2. Trying to push people into positions who are not ready or not really interested. People often say things to be nice, or because the don't want to disappoint you or cause conflict, but aren't really ready/interested in it. Basically, it's easy to overlook others true feelings when one is so focused on getting a position filled. Related, letting those who are unqualified but enthusiastic AND immature take a position. Sometimes it's a hard call to make, especially if the function of the alliance is on the line, and some actually excel even though they are untested. In a sink or swim scenario, those that drown often pull the alliance down with them. It can be irritating or even disastrous to replace someone at the wrong time. 3. Being afraid of cracking the whip. Everybody wants to be liked to some degree, especially by their alliance mates. But a good leader understands the proper distance between them and those they lead. On one hand, you have to have (or develop) a deep connection with your constituents, one where trust prevails and they know that you have their very best interests in mind. That is essential. On the other, a leader better serves the alliance when they can step back, use their authority to reprimand, expel, challenge, deny, and force their agendas when they know it is for the best. Instead of being a best friend, it's better to be a big brother or uncle, even fatherly (or motherly, what ever your gig is). Warm but stern. 4. Not taking the initiative. A number of times, I sat and waited, worried that if I took the lead it would upset others or make a disruption. That "something" would work itself out. What I've found out, though, is that often in a organization/political quagmire where nothing seems to get done, it's better to risk it by stepping forward and saying "I'll handle this." And then handle it. Basically it means trusting oneself even if you don't have the experience. If you have the guts, you can rely on others' experience to guide you. Sometimes it really is up to you to save the day. I have more but who wants to read an essay. I liked a lot of the other posts here, especially James Dahl's and ChairmanHal's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles the Great Posted June 7, 2010 Report Share Posted June 7, 2010 how about leaders who: 1. Flip flop sides when allies come into a war, thus exposing said allies to severe curbstomp and massive reps. 2. Do midnight peace negotiations with no input to allies, thus exposing said allies to what amounts to quad attack tech raids with no alternative but to peace out the following morning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theArrowheadian Posted June 7, 2010 Report Share Posted June 7, 2010 [quote name='Charles the Great' date='07 June 2010 - 08:30 AM' timestamp='1275917417' post='2327744'] how about leaders who: 1. Flip flop sides when allies come into a war, thus exposing said allies to severe curbstomp and massive reps. 2. Do midnight peace negotiations with no input to allies, thus exposing said allies to what amounts to quad attack tech raids with no alternative but to peace out the following morning. [/quote] Are you by any chance bitter? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supercoolyellow Posted June 7, 2010 Author Report Share Posted June 7, 2010 [quote name='theArrowheadian' date='07 June 2010 - 11:02 AM' timestamp='1275926555' post='2327851'] Are you by any chance bitter? [/quote] Wouldn't you be as well? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PumpkinFunk Posted June 7, 2010 Report Share Posted June 7, 2010 [quote name='supercoolyellow' date='03 June 2010 - 10:39 PM' timestamp='1275622762' post='2323056'] Actually I have come to the conclusion that there is one trait far worse for a leader than any other. [size="5"][font="Impact"][color="#FF0000"]Being a[/color][color="#0000FF"] Duke[/color] [color="#FF0000"]fan[/color].[/font][/size] [/quote] Glad to know that I'll be the worst leader in CN, then, since I'm one of the bigger Duke fans around these parts. The worst trait I've seen is an unwillingness to listen to others. Leaders who don't trust anyone else in the alliance for advice and who don't listen to the advice of their fellow government members lead alliances down the path of destruction. I've seen it time and time again in many places. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles the Great Posted June 7, 2010 Report Share Posted June 7, 2010 [quote name='theArrowheadian' date='07 June 2010 - 02:02 PM' timestamp='1275926555' post='2327851'] Are you by any chance bitter? [/quote] [quote name='supercoolyellow' date='07 June 2010 - 02:14 PM' timestamp='1275927250' post='2327857'] Wouldn't you be as well? [/quote] does it show? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theArrowheadian Posted June 7, 2010 Report Share Posted June 7, 2010 [quote name='Charles the Great' date='07 June 2010 - 12:47 PM' timestamp='1275932808' post='2327918'] does it show? [/quote] When the job is done, walk away. Life goes on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alistair Thorrington Posted June 7, 2010 Report Share Posted June 7, 2010 Anything displayed other than the traits of Kim Jong-Il. So soberness, intellect, a lack of diabetes, good planning and steadfastness are all characteristics of a bad leader. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Felix von Agnu Posted June 7, 2010 Report Share Posted June 7, 2010 [quote name='Charles the Great' date='07 June 2010 - 09:30 AM' timestamp='1275917417' post='2327744'] how about leaders who: 1. Flip flop sides when allies come into a war, thus exposing said allies to severe curbstomp and massive reps. 2. Do midnight peace negotiations with no input to allies, thus exposing said allies to what amounts to quad attack tech raids with no alternative but to peace out the following morning. [/quote] Personally, I think leaders who attack their allies because of flimsy reasons with no real attempt to sort it out first are worse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles the Great Posted June 8, 2010 Report Share Posted June 8, 2010 [quote name='Felix von Agnu' date='07 June 2010 - 07:45 PM' timestamp='1275947107' post='2328166'] Personally, I think leaders who attack their allies because of flimsy reasons with no real attempt to sort it out first are worse. [/quote] I could care less what you think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mayzie Posted June 8, 2010 Report Share Posted June 8, 2010 Interesting to see what this thread has become. Clearly the worst type of leadership is one who is consistantly drunk and doesn't know what he/she is saying half of the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daikos Posted June 8, 2010 Report Share Posted June 8, 2010 [quote name='Mayzie' date='08 June 2010 - 09:04 AM' timestamp='1276002227' post='2328774'] Interesting to see what this thread has become. Clearly the worst type of leadership is one who is consistantly drunk and doesn't know what he/she is saying half of the time. [/quote] More like best leadership imo... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TypoNinja Posted June 8, 2010 Report Share Posted June 8, 2010 [quote name='Mayzie' date='08 June 2010 - 09:04 AM' timestamp='1276002227' post='2328774'] Interesting to see what this thread has become. Clearly the worst type of leadership is one who is consistantly drunk and doesn't know what he/she is saying half of the time. [/quote] That describes half of CN. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nitropenta Posted June 8, 2010 Report Share Posted June 8, 2010 [quote name='TypoNinja' date='08 June 2010 - 08:49 PM' timestamp='1276022951' post='2329026'] That describes half of CN. [/quote] The other half is stoned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lusitan Posted June 8, 2010 Report Share Posted June 8, 2010 [quote name='nitropenta' date='09 June 2010 - 12:16 AM' timestamp='1276038994' post='2329275'] The other half is stoned. [/quote] What about those who are both stoned and drunk? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archanis Posted June 8, 2010 Report Share Posted June 8, 2010 [quote name='Mayzie' date='08 June 2010 - 09:04 AM' timestamp='1276002227' post='2328774'] Interesting to see what this thread has become. [/quote]Hey man, if people didn't have threads like this to make indirect, passive aggressive attacks against one another, they might have to be [i]direct[/i] with one another. And who wants THAT? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarmatian Empire Posted June 8, 2010 Report Share Posted June 8, 2010 This might be my own bias, but I'll nominate The Mafia's gov for the worst ever. They have a pretty good angle with the mafia thing, but have yet to lift above something around 800k NS. That shows there ability to grow and manage. Their forums, last I checked, were dead, something resembling a ghost town. There is government activity for you. We seen them cancel a treaty they signed...what 2 days before then cancelled it? That is UED for anyone who noticed, not to mention UED was in a time where they could of used the support. I call that looking out for your friends/allies. They've raided protected nations. Member control for ya. They went up against 4 rogues, lost 300k NS and had 6-7 members scared out of the alliance and when it was brought up in the OWF, they whined about it, took personal shots, AND CAPS WERE ON CRUISE CONTROL. I would say that the government is classy and can really handle a crisis situation. My nominations rests at that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandwich Controversy Posted June 9, 2010 Report Share Posted June 9, 2010 mafia in the old days owned GENMAY ISN'T GIVING US ENOUGH MONEY *declares war on GOONS* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schattenmann Posted June 9, 2010 Report Share Posted June 9, 2010 [quote name='Sandwich Controversy' date='08 June 2010 - 11:31 PM' timestamp='1276054293' post='2329626'] mafia in the old days owned GENMAY ISN'T GIVING US ENOUGH MONEY *declares war on GOONS* [/quote] Oh mang, and ACDC in the day was super slick. Zzzptm: "Hey I'm the MoFA of ACDC, dropping by to let you know we elected a senator and you're welcome to try and do anything about it since you're at war and all. So you know, suck it, and also we'd like to be friends. Also, die in a fire, let's do lunch sometime." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TypoNinja Posted June 9, 2010 Report Share Posted June 9, 2010 [quote name='Lusitan' date='08 June 2010 - 07:27 PM' timestamp='1276039644' post='2329284'] What about those who are both stoned and drunk? [/quote] Check the government of any sanctioned alliance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archanis Posted June 9, 2010 Report Share Posted June 9, 2010 [quote name='TypoNinja' date='09 June 2010 - 12:37 AM' timestamp='1276058260' post='2329724'] Check the government of any sanctioned alliance. [/quote]So very, very true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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