SpoiL Posted February 28, 2010 Report Share Posted February 28, 2010 (edited) x woops Edited February 28, 2010 by SpoiL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Icemark Posted February 28, 2010 Report Share Posted February 28, 2010 [quote name='kevin32891' date='28 February 2010 - 02:14 PM' timestamp='1267388261' post='2208714'] To bad. Crap goes around and sure as hell comes around. [/quote] I need some ointment for that burn. Heh, punny. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Il Impero Romano Posted February 28, 2010 Report Share Posted February 28, 2010 [quote name='chefjoe' date='28 February 2010 - 08:18 PM' timestamp='1267388533' post='2208724'] My guess is becuase heft views TOOL agreeing to these terms(just guessing here)no different from say a wrongfull confession coerced out of a suspect. Something that needs to be thrown out as hogwash.... My theory anyhow. [/quote] Actually, it's completely different. The TOOL negotiations room was perhaps the most light hearted and friendly that I have ever been in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heft Posted February 28, 2010 Report Share Posted February 28, 2010 [quote name='Il Impero Romano' date='28 February 2010 - 02:17 PM' timestamp='1267388436' post='2208720'] The [b]catch phrases[/b] thrown around by some leaders around here drive me absolutely nuts. I mean really, not that I agree with [b]precautionary reps[/b], but draconian? [i]Draconian[/i]???? [/quote] lol. No but seriously, the hell are "Precautionary reps?" And what are they trying to prevent here? TOOL is one of the few alliances with very few blemishes on its record out there. Are they trying to prevent them from supporting their allies? That's the only way this makes sense. [quote name='chefjoe' date='28 February 2010 - 02:18 PM' timestamp='1267388533' post='2208724'] My guess is becuase heft views TOOL agreeing to these terms(just guessing here)no different from say a wrongfull confession coerced out of a suspect. Something that needs to be thrown out as hogwash.... My theory anyhow. [/quote] Yea, something like that. The terms are so obviously absurd that it's really difficult to attach any legitimacy to them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krashnaia Posted February 28, 2010 Report Share Posted February 28, 2010 [quote name='ChairmanHal' date='28 February 2010 - 06:57 PM' timestamp='1267380055' post='2208517'] [i]OOC: Yeah, it worked wonders when the victorious Allies demanded crushing reparations in the Treaty of Versailles...absolutely nothing went wrong. [/i][/quote] Actually, all went alright until they allowed Hitler to break the terms. BTW, isn't this a IC forum? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krashnaia Posted February 28, 2010 Report Share Posted February 28, 2010 (edited) [quote name='Heft' date='28 February 2010 - 09:37 PM' timestamp='1267389685' post='2208753'] lol. No but seriously, the hell are "Precautionary reps?" And what are they trying to prevent here? TOOL is one of the few alliances with very few blemishes on its record out there. Are they trying to prevent them from supporting their allies? That's the only way this makes sense.[/quote] They are not precautionary. They are terms TOOL can pay pretty easly. That's why we have asked for them and why they have agreed to them. Edited February 28, 2010 by Krashnaia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crowdog07 Posted February 28, 2010 Report Share Posted February 28, 2010 [size="7"]They didn't have to accept the reps if they felt they were so unjustified. [/size] Anyone and everyone complaining about harsh reps is an idiot because these weren't required to be accepted. These are likely (I say likely because I won't pretend to have been in the discussions) the result of negotiations and offers/counter-offers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Il Impero Romano Posted February 28, 2010 Report Share Posted February 28, 2010 (edited) [quote name='kevin32891' date='28 February 2010 - 08:20 PM' timestamp='1267388666' post='2208726'] So do you really believe that the terms given by Sparta and MA are fair and deserved? [/quote] lol Well gee, I never said that, I actually elluded to how personally I disagree with such reps (as proven by me not asking for them). However, I also dont find the reps to be cruel or severe, and last I checked draconian does not mean unfair or not deserved. Basically I was saying its a stupid catch phrase that gets thrown around to much and people can come up with much better lines in such a topic. [quote name='Heft' date='28 February 2010 - 08:37 PM' timestamp='1267389685' post='2208753'] lol. No but seriously, the hell are "Precautionary reps?" And what are they trying to prevent here? TOOL is one of the few alliances with very few blemishes on its record out there. Are they trying to prevent them from supporting their allies? That's the only way this makes sense. Yea, something like that. The terms are so obviously absurd that it's really difficult to attach any legitimacy to them. [/quote] I kind of made the term up lol I use it to refer to non pecuniary reparations that are not punitive in nature but meant to hinder the future growth of an enemy post war (which, as I said, I personally don't agree with in situation such as TOOL). However, I was more responding to a line of justification that has come up for such reps here, and not saying that is what Sparta or Nemesis intended by imposing them. That being said though, the rep terms are not egregious enough to get outrage from me here, whatever their motivation may have been; and let me reiterate, from what I know personally about the subject I'm rather certain the motive was a mix between pecuniary and punitive, not precautionary. Therefore, while you wont catch VE asking such terms in a situation like this, I don't care enough about these rather mild terms to let it reflect badly on those who asked for them. Edited February 28, 2010 by Il Impero Romano Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lusitan Posted February 28, 2010 Report Share Posted February 28, 2010 (edited) [quote name='Crowdog' date='28 February 2010 - 08:48 PM' timestamp='1267390336' post='2208770'] [size="7"]They didn't have to accept the reps if they felt they were so unjustified. [/size] Anyone and everyone complaining about harsh reps is an idiot because these weren't required to be accepted. These are likely (I say likely because I won't pretend to have been in the discussions) the result of negotiations and offers/counter-offers. [/quote] Neither did the CnG need to accept the reparations during the NPO times if they felt so injustified, but you, Athens and the gang had no problem in portraying yourselves as poor injustified victims for a long time, even in this same thread in the case of Athens. EDIT: I hope the sarcasm is evident, but in case it isn't, I am pointing out now Edited February 28, 2010 by Lusitan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilentFury Posted February 28, 2010 Report Share Posted February 28, 2010 2c. MA - A total of 22.5k technology and cash of 50/50 with a technology price of 100 tech = 3 mil. MA just strikes me as a very poor alliance with this one. You guys lost about 700k in total damage stop being jerks and move on.. Also showing MA is a poor alliance http://www.cybernations.net/nation_drill_display.asp?Nation_ID=80055 LoL FIX your selves up stop trying to bully... SMFH.... Other then that much respect to LOUD RIA VE and LOSS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cynic2 Posted February 28, 2010 Report Share Posted February 28, 2010 I know I'm a bit late to this thread but I just wanted to congratulate the TOOL nations that I fought for good competitive wars. You guys fought honorably and gave a good showing for your alliance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DemonSpawn Posted February 28, 2010 Report Share Posted February 28, 2010 Congrats on gaining peace TOOL. Im very happy to see our friends in LOUD portrayed in such an epic story! Hiya HeRo1!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rsoxbronco1 Posted February 28, 2010 Report Share Posted February 28, 2010 [quote name='Lusitan' date='28 February 2010 - 04:05 PM' timestamp='1267391358' post='2208786'] Neither did the CnG need to accept the reparations during the NPO times if they felt so injustified, but you, Athens and the gang had no problem in portraying yourselves as poor injustified victims for a long time, even in this same thread in the case of Athens. EDIT: I hope the sarcasm is evident, but in case it isn't, I am pointing out now [/quote] This has absolutely nothing to do with Athens. In NoCB, C&G was attacked and we had to pay reps. In this war, C&G was attacked and the alliances opposing C&G/co are having to pay reps. There's a difference and it doesn't require a graduate degree to see it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeRo1 Posted February 28, 2010 Report Share Posted February 28, 2010 [quote name='DemonSpawn' date='28 February 2010 - 02:09 PM' timestamp='1267391609' post='2208795'] Congrats on gaining peace TOOL. Im very happy to see our friends in LOUD portrayed in such an epic story! Hiya HeRo1!!!!!! [/quote] yeah, you better post when i tell you to. <3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoomzoomzoom Posted February 28, 2010 Report Share Posted February 28, 2010 [quote name='Krashnaia' date='28 February 2010 - 02:48 PM' timestamp='1267390318' post='2208769'] They are not precautionary. They are terms TOOL can pay pretty easly. That's why we have asked for them and why they have agreed to them. [/quote] No, you demanded them because MA is an awful alliance, a very thin shell of what it once was. Just merge into CSN or RIA already. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lusitan Posted February 28, 2010 Report Share Posted February 28, 2010 [quote name='rsoxbronco1' date='28 February 2010 - 09:12 PM' timestamp='1267391743' post='2208796'] This has absolutely nothing to do with Athens. In NoCB, C&G was attacked and we had to pay reps. In this war, C&G was attacked and the alliances opposing C&G/co are having to pay reps. There's a difference and it doesn't require a graduate degree to see it. [/quote] I was just pointing the absurd of his statement. Not accusing CnG of doing anything out of place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aeternos Astramora Posted February 28, 2010 Report Share Posted February 28, 2010 "Maybe if I ask for the most reps, everyone will think we were their toughest enemies." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ejayrazz Posted February 28, 2010 Report Share Posted February 28, 2010 [quote name='Crowdog' date='28 February 2010 - 03:48 PM' timestamp='1267390336' post='2208770'] [size="7"]They didn't have to accept the reps if they felt they were so unjustified. [/size] Anyone and everyone complaining about harsh reps is an idiot because these weren't required to be accepted. These are likely (I say likely because I won't pretend to have been in the discussions) the result of negotiations and offers/counter-offers. [/quote] Likewise with MK when they accepted their terms from NPO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyperbad Posted February 28, 2010 Report Share Posted February 28, 2010 [quote name='Crowdog' date='28 February 2010 - 03:48 PM' timestamp='1267390336' post='2208770'] They didn't have to accept the reps if they felt they were so unjustified.[/quote] Not that this is the case - I highly doubt it is - but it could be a smart strategy to accept unjustifiably heavy reparations with the intent of causing resentment in the victors and sympathy for the defeated. The type of reparations now play a significant role in foreign affairs and who others are willing to work with in addition to the types and severity of reparations they will likely receive in the future if they should lose a war. The defeated here need not do anything beyond setting the stone in motion for others to pick up. So I wouldn't say someone accepting reparations of any particular type automatically means they believe them to be just and reasonable. There are other considerations made. [quote]Anyone and everyone complaining about harsh reps is an idiot because these weren't required to be accepted.[/quote] That holds no relevance with whether any set of terms could be viewed as harsh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wad of Lint Posted February 28, 2010 Report Share Posted February 28, 2010 [quote name='Ejayrazz' date='28 February 2010 - 04:27 PM' timestamp='1267392640' post='2208817'] Likewise with MK when they accepted their terms from NPO. [/quote] This is the crux of the issue. At what point are large reps justified verses bullying? Is it perspective? What is the difference between these reps and those that have been requested by others through the years? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voodoo Nova Posted February 28, 2010 Report Share Posted February 28, 2010 [quote name='Krashnaia' date='28 February 2010 - 03:48 PM' timestamp='1267390318' post='2208769'] They are not precautionary. They are terms TOOL can pay pretty easly. That's why we have asked for them and why they have agreed to them. [/quote] You don't ask for 22.5k tech because it's easy for the other guy to pay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilentFury Posted February 28, 2010 Report Share Posted February 28, 2010 Who ever says they did not need to accept the reps sounds like a ....you can finish the sentence ... Any ways they had to accept ...its either accept or get killed even more,then get offered higher reps so dont go around saying TOOL did not have to cuz that is BS and we all know it.. That was their only choice for the better of The Order Of Light.. And if MA thinks they look tougher cuz they demanded higher reps they fail every one knows they did no damage and had a poor number of wars .. Really MA how can you ask for so much if you done so little and so little has been done to you... What is your logic? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dochartaigh Posted February 28, 2010 Report Share Posted February 28, 2010 [quote name='Crowdog' date='28 February 2010 - 02:48 PM' timestamp='1267390336' post='2208770'] [size="7"]They didn't have to accept the reps if they felt they were so unjustified. [/size] Anyone and everyone complaining about harsh reps is an idiot because these weren't required to be accepted. These are likely (I say likely because I won't pretend to have been in the discussions) the result of negotiations and offers/counter-offers. [/quote] so all the whining from MK and their allies over the terms that NPO/Heg laid down over the years is just them acting hypocritical? because obviously the terms are completely justified if accepted and since MK accepted their terms, i guess we should be seeing an apology from Archon/MK and their allies for the many months of them stating that the terms they received were unjustified despite the fact that they accepted them. i honestly can't wait to see that. if that ain't gonna happen, then ya'll need to stop with this line of argument as it is not only ridiculous but completely hypocritical. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lafiel Posted February 28, 2010 Report Share Posted February 28, 2010 [quote name='SilentFury' date='01 March 2010 - 12:37 AM' timestamp='1267391465' post='2208789'] 2c. MA - A total of 22.5k technology and cash of 50/50 with a technology price of 100 tech = 3 mil. MA just strikes me as a very poor alliance with this one. You guys lost about 700k in total damage stop being jerks and move on.. Also showing MA is a poor alliance [url="http://www.cybernations.net/nation_drill_display.asp?Nation_ID=80055"]http://www.cybernati...Nation_ID=80055[/url] LoL FIX your selves up stop trying to bully... SMFH.... Other then that much respect to LOUD RIA VE and LOSS [/quote] What's your Point ? Can you enlighten me please. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KagetheSecond Posted February 28, 2010 Report Share Posted February 28, 2010 [quote name='Lord Fingolfin' date='28 February 2010 - 11:52 AM' timestamp='1267386980' post='2208683'] The fact that you lost 5 million NS even while IRON and TOP were dogpilled by half the alliances in the cyberverse, TOOL was hit by 3+ times their NS, Legion was hit by ~9 alliances that came out to roughly 3 times their NS, as was OMFG, makes me think that statement is complete !@#$%^&*. Actually, the !@#$%^&* rating on that statement is OVER 9000! I don't have a problem with you calling your allies in, you would have been idiots not to, but don't try to portray yourself as some big badasses who could have taken on 4 sanctioned alliances all by themselves and won. The fact of the matter is that you would have dropped like flies and probably have lost sanction by now had your allies not come in to bail out your $@! [/quote] When we declared, Sparta was almost exactly 10x our size. And they called in help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.