Cynic2

[quote name='goony' timestamp='1301438184' post='2680187'] apologies for that gentlemen. It was only a couple months ago but I had no knowledge on CN polotics and stuff so a surrender didn't look that bad. I was previously a nation that would just collect taxes and buy infastructure, nothing more. I already took heavy damages and was about to get nuked, a surrender looked very appealing in this situation. Again I am sorry, I left like a coward and it was wrong of me to do so. I am far more knowledgable than I was back then and I definately won't make the same mistakes. [/quote] I'm most interested in what our leadership thinks of this considering that they just let a guy back into our AA the other day when he basically said "I didn't know any better" just as you have said here. [quote name='legion-x' timestamp='1301434261' post='2680151'] yeah thats him... i was pretty embarrassed to tell you that we had a guy surrender, as MoD i knew you expected more from the military than people running when the going gets tough. [/quote] Fragger55

*Awaits GOONS DoW* Congratulations on your existence and good luck.

Ah so that's what happened. Thanks for the heads up guys.

Guys Anathema disbanded a week ago... Is there really anything left to discuss regarding their disbandment?

It's probably been said before in the last 80+ pages but I'll go ahead and mention that arguing that you are on a different path than the old hegemonic regime doesn't hold water when you are mimicking the actions of that very regime. I remember back when the NPO used the same justification as you are using now to keep GATO at war, they said that there would be no peace for them until their peace mode large nations came out and fought. If you really want to fight them then how about asking all of your allies and all of NPO's allies to agree to a cease fire and going one on one with the NPO, winner take all? The NPO member who posted that they should ride it out is right. They have nothing to lose and can keep you guys frustrated for quite some time by continuing to do as they are doing.

[quote name='Kharcoff' timestamp='1300251440' post='2666228'] Aluminum and Rubber here... http://www.cybernations.net/nation_drill_display.asp?Nation_ID=284773 [/quote] Added. I've already contacted the other members of the circle and given them the link to your nation. As soon as you can clear your trade slots they'll either accept trade offers from you or send out offers for you to accept.

[quote name='Sarmatian Empire' timestamp='1300239499' post='2666013'] I'll agree...noobs wasnt the best term, little nation would of been better [/quote] Lol yeah we do have a lot more small nations than big ones.

This is a long term (read: permanent) trade circle and we need a replacement for our Aluminum/Rubber trade since they were deleted for inactivity. Here's a list of the resources, bonuses and the economic and military effects of the circle plus a list of the members: [quote]Resource list: - Aluminum- Kharcoff - Cattle- Cynic - Coal- Pretoors - Gold- apiwattu67 - Iron- xShadow - Lead - rmpkatz - Lumber- xShadow - Marble- apiwattu67 - Oil- Cynic - Rubber- Kharcoff - Uranium- rmpkatz - Water- Pretoors Economic effect: Income: +$13.5 Citizens: +5% Happiness: +8 Infra cost: -35.2% Tech cost: -12.6% Land cost: -19% Land bonus: +38% Environment: +2 Env. Penalty: -50% Bill effect: Infra UpK: -23.7% Soldier UpK: -$0.5 Tank UpK: -16.97% Nuke UpK: -60% Navy UpK: -38.44% Aircraft UpK: -25% Military effect: Soldier eff.: +42.56% Soldier cost: -$6 CM cost: -20% Nukes cost: -20% Tanks cost: -8% Navy Cost: -27.33% Aircraft Cost: -15.21% Aircraft Limit: +10[/quote] Bonus Resources are Construction, Asphalt, Automobiles, Steel, Radiation Cleanup, microchips, and Scholars. Please if you have Rubber and Aluminum and either are on the black team or willing to switch to black team either post in this thread or contact me in game. Thanks.

What's disappointing to me in this thread is that the Legacy nations that I fought during the war were honorable opponents that I share a mutual respect with, yet the only comments that we see from Legacy lately are the bile that is being spewed from the mouth of Sarmatian Empire. You do a grave disservice to your alliance by taunting like an idiot when your comrades have so much class. You can call us an alliance of 'noobs' if you want but remember we were engaged on multiple fronts, Legacy was not. Next time try coming at us with even odds and you'll see just how wrong you are about these 'noobs'.

I was going to say something about redundancy but since TIO are such awesome people I'm going to hail this instead. o/ TIO! o/ LoSS!

The terms are much more reasonable than I would have expected. Congratulations on peace to all involved.

[quote name='AAAAAAAAAAGGGG' timestamp='1300037882' post='2663061'] By the way, if you think this idea is a really good one, you could always get the people together and redo it, without Kev. [/quote] This man has a point... If Kev was the only one plotting up the spy ring (and there's no evidence that any other members were involved) then if the original founders still feel that they can make the difference that they wanted to make then you all could always try it again.

[quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1299986077' post='2662227'] I don't know what Incitatus will or will not do, nor why or why not. Don't you think it's rather odd that your name is Cynic yet you're so happily swallowing every word from those arrayed to attack your protectorate? I think it's sort of cute; I love irony, it's the highest form of comedy. [/quote] You would have a point if Incitatus had not already openly agreed that the logs that those who are arrayed against him produced as evidence are not falsified nor inaccurate. I am not "happily swallowing every word" from anyone as what has been presented doesn't have two sides as Incitatus' only defense so far has been "yeah those logs are real, no they'rre not falsified or altered and even though the logs show that I was expecting a report from a spy(which another Anathema government member asked for according to them to use as evidence to remove Incitatus from power and salvage the alliance) we weren't spying."

[quote name='Heft' timestamp='1300016231' post='2662819'] There was someone criticizing him in the "clarification" thread about him not being able to take responsibility for his failures (was it CJ? I can't be bothered to look it up).[/quote] Heh, actually there were a couple of us being critical of him for that. On topic: This announcement was expected, although who it was issued by wasn't.

[quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1299984602' post='2662206'] The logs show no reaction, they end abruptly. [/quote] Correct however do you not agree that had there been such a reaction that he would have already stated it in his defense and if logs exist showing his reaction that he would have provided them himself?

[quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1299983954' post='2662192'] The log does not show Incitatus "willing to accept" a report. They show D_T asking for a report. [/quote] A report that the "spy" tells Incitatus was meant for him which is something that he never attempted to rebutt. I know that if a spy had told me that one of my alliance mates was asking for a report that he was supposed to give to me I would have reacted by asking them what the hell they were talking about. That type of reaction is not what those logs show.

[quote name='Incitatus' timestamp='1299983135' post='2662182'] I said the logs were not fake, I did not say that I requested information from Aslan. (Because I did not) Also, I didn't accept any report from him yesterday. Where are you getting this? [/quote] In those logs a "report" that was meant for you was mentioned right about where it was stated that D_T "snitched" on you. Did you not read the logs before posting that they were not fake? I only ask this because you are claiming that the logs are not fake yet at the same time denying that you were expecting the report that is mentioned in those logs. The only options are either you were expecting that report or that that part of the logs is false, which is it?

[quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1299982533' post='2662170'] The logs show exactly what Incitatus said: That a month ago he was trying to start a spy ring, and in between then and their DoE, they decided to instead become an alliance focused on changing things through foreign policy. They show that the minute things got out in the air, GOD sent their double agent to talk to Inc and make it look like he never stopped. [/quote] You may have been accurate if, in the thread made by Xiphosis, Incitatus didn't admit to the validity of logs showing him willing to accept a report from someone he believed to be a spy from GOD as recently as yesterday... If he had a change of heart about the spy network idea then he would have refused to even discuss spying especially with a GOD nation that he was interested in having as a spy in GOD.

[quote name='Incitatus' timestamp='1299979953' post='2662118'] Exactly right. [/quote] Now you've just completely lost control of your mental faculties... You can't seriously think that the quote that you agreed with is in any way logical or sensible. Or can you?

[quote name='Incitatus' timestamp='1299977889' post='2662072'] Nah, the guy from GOD made that up. D_T never tried to get info from the guy. [/quote] Truthfully your logic has seemingly been so circular that I find it difficult to take your word for it. You did seem to be expecting some sort of report from the GOD member in question, unless that is now a lie too even though you have already vouched for the accuracy of these logs?

[quote name='Penlugue Solaris' timestamp='1299976327' post='2662044'] That's a misrepresentation, at least from what I'm reading. He was not asking for information in the logs from March 11th, just trying to cover his own butt and see if he could lie about spying on GOD. Everything before that...yeah that's directly looking for information, spying, whatever you wanna call it. [/quote] Well when I look and see [quote][2011-03-11 23:05:50] <Removed|GOD|> Also it was D_T who snitched on you [2011-03-11 23:07:38] <Incitatus> How? [2011-03-11 23:07:50] <Removed|GOD|> He came looking for Xiph to tell him and showed this [2011-03-11 23:07:53] <Removed|GOD|> http://img861.images...us/i/anass.png/ [2011-03-11 23:08:04] <Removed|GOD|> Also he tried to have me give my report for you to him [2011-03-11 23:12:05] <Incitatus> Are you sure it was D_T or Hadrian? [/quote] that seems to be a pretty good indication that he was expecting a report from the GOD member that he thought was a spy.

[quote name='Incitatus' timestamp='1299974796' post='2661999'] These logs are all true. There is a bit more to the story, but I can confirm these logs. I'll continue to think of you as a friend Xiph, and wish you the best of luck. I will repeat, We did not spy. [/quote] Are you seriously trying to [u]defend[/u] your actions after admitting that logs showing you communicating and ready to accept information from someone that you thought was a spy that you had in GOD just yesterday are legitimate? Are you really this dense or are you just incapable of accepting responsibilities for your actions? Edit: Added a few missing words

If these logs are legitimate then all I have to say is wow, just wow... Edit: Well since the post above mine confirms it...

[quote name='Incitatus' timestamp='1299915680' post='2661240'] Militarily* I know there was plenty of verbal support by some guys on your end. I really do appreciate it, you guys are awesome. But I honestly believed you guys would go up to bat for us via military. Or at least attempt to talk to me before notifying me of canceling. You're a great guy DR, and a great alliance leader. Not sure if that means much to you given my current position within Planet Bob (justified or not). [/quote] I'm not LoSS government but my opinion as a member on this is as follows: According to what I have seen in this thread even before you officially founded Anathema you were contemplating starting a spy ring, a fact that (to my knowledge at least) you never once brought to LoSS's attention. You came to us to sign an MDoAP knowing full well that this situation could very well come back to bight you in the ass as it is starting to do. Beginning the formation of Anathema with the intention of planting spies in other alliances is a signifigant bit of information that should have been relayed before we agreed to sign any treaty with you, yet based upon the competency that I know my leaders to have I don't believe that was what happened. You began the idea of forming Anathema with the intention to spy on sovereign alliances, the most commonly used Casus Belli out there, you came to LoSS for a treaty knowing full well that this skeleton was in your closet and instead of giving us a heads up signed the treaty and are now surprised that after the deception or omission (whichever it was) that we won't stand up for you [u]militarily[/u]? That's so fallacious that you just can't make it up. If you had not intended and in fact discussed creating a network of spies I have no doubt that LoSS would have rolled out to help you, recovering from our recent war or not but why would we march to war for you when our treaty was signed without any forewarning that this had happened?

[quote name='Drugsup' timestamp='1299920820' post='2661319'] Ouch CsN LOSS 3,099,870 CSN 3,061,011 Best luck in the rebuilding o/ [/quote] I'm really not trying to be unpleasant here but can't we wait for a bit before continuing to trash talk? We can point out all of these stats, numbers, and argue with them about who kicked who's ass if we're fighting on opposite sides from them in the next war. Gloating over numbers and stuff is going to make us come across as arrogant if it becomes a common theme.