Notice of Cancellation

[New Frontier]

I've got to love the accusations of Ivan abusing his membership.

As a former Lord, I can tell you that NSO is unquestionably an alliance of people with incredibly similar views and an incredibly similar sense of pride.

[Lord Garka]

I am not reading 37 pages of stuff, Someone summarize what happened between page 1 and page 37...


[img]https://www.davidfarr.com/boat_cruise/contact/im_waiting_to_hear.gif[/img]

[Pablo Monkey]

Since NpO abandoned the NSO because we would not accept peace, what are the peace terms on the table right now?

[Merrie Melodies]

[quote name='AlmightyGrub' date='25 February 2010 - 05:01 AM' timestamp='1267074270' post='2202672']
I love this empty rhetoric from angry people. It more than amuses me over and over to see words like betrayed used so liberally. I am confident that there will be plenty of treaties canceled by plenty of people, not just involving Polaris... I actually consider it a very good thing. Untangling the web will make life so much simpler.

The NSO made a choice, their choice, and so we made our choice. Seems simple enough. They then made another choice, seems logical. We have a strong disagreement over their perspective on matters, so what? Should we all see things the same way? Please do keep running me down, it is fun.
[/quote]
Out of curiosity, would NpO have maintained the NSO treaty after the war if NSO hadn't canceled?

[Fernando12]

[quote name='Killer Monkey land' date='24 February 2010 - 11:21 PM' timestamp='1267075529' post='2202699']
Since NpO abandoned the NSO because we would not accept peace, what are the peace terms on the table right now?
[/quote]
Abandoned is such a harsh word.

Whatever it is the fate of NSO will probably be the same as it has been. Peace with terms not to re-enter and a beer review or if you guys stay in until the war is completely over then prolly just peace with a beer review. I dunno, but I doubt NSO will be asked to pay reps? But either way even Ivan said you guys are defeated. What's the point of staying in? White Peace? Do you really think you will get that even if you stay for the duration of the war? At some point you guys will need to acknowledge defeat and more so surrender to end your part in this war. I agree you guys should get white peace. But from what has been said in this thread by your opponents, peace/surrender is what you guys will have to acknowledge.

As far as TOP/IRON, you guys staying in won't change the fact that they will lose this war and prolly have to pay reparations and whatever else CnG asks for.

[WorldConqueror]

[quote name='Aurion' date='25 February 2010 - 02:52 PM' timestamp='1267073747' post='2202655']
My issue is more with the Morality Brigade condemning everything that isn't nailed down as being evil and hegemonic.
[/quote]
Perhaps you should have thought about that before you and your buddies got the ball rolling on that about a year ago. Karma is what has led to this point.

[Sephiroth]

[quote name='Fernando12' date='25 February 2010 - 12:33 AM' timestamp='1267076241' post='2202716']
Abandoned is such a harsh word.

Whatever it is the fate of NSO will probably be the same as it has been. Peace with terms not to re-enter and a beer review or if you guys stay in until the war is completely over then prolly just peace with a beer review. I dunno, but I doubt NSO will be asked to pay reps? But either way even Ivan said you guys are defeated. What's the point of staying in? White Peace? Do you really think you will get that even if you stay for the duration of the war? At some point you guys will need to acknowledge defeat and more so surrender to end your part in this war. I agree you guys should get white peace. But from what has been said in this thread by your opponents, peace/surrender is what you guys will have to acknowledge.

As far as TOP/IRON, you guys staying in won't change the fact that they will lose this war and prolly have to pay reparations and whatever else CnG asks for.
[/quote]
Fark can correct if I'm wrong here and I mistook them for being serious when they weren't, but last I heard the beer review peace is not available and now any peace would involve an indefinite amount of reps increasing depending on how long we wait before surrendering. Not sure if someone could really expect anyone to not take a no surrender policy when those are the options, but I'm not very motivated to surrender.

[deth2munkies]

[quote name='Aurion' date='24 February 2010 - 10:52 PM' timestamp='1267073747' post='2202655']
If you want to fight it out due to an issue with the terms offered, it's your choice. Frankly, I respect you lot on some level quite a bit more at this point since you could have just walked off into the sunset when NpO pulled out the first time and few would have said anything.

My issue is more with the Morality Brigade condemning everything that isn't nailed down as being evil and hegemonic.
[/quote]
See, that's the problem: Hegemony is/has been a buzzword for anything anyone doesn't like. If you disagree with someone you're being hegemonistic. If you start a war, you're being hegemonistic. If there's no war for some time, it's because of the new hegemony. You can't please the masses no matter what you do and it always comes down to lines: friends stick by friends and enemies call enemies hegemonistic and other mean words. The "morality brigade" is nothing more than recycled rhetoric just as empty as it has always been.

Anyway, back to the subject of the thread: keep doing whatever the $%&@ you want NSO, but keep in mind: we'll be watching.

Edited February 25, 2010 by deth2munkies

[Arcturus Jefferson]

[quote name='WorldConqueror' date='25 February 2010 - 12:46 AM' timestamp='1267076974' post='2202727']
Perhaps you should have thought about that before you and your buddies got the ball rolling on that about a year ago. Karma is what has led to this point.
[/quote]
A failure to understand Karma is what has led to this point.

[wickedj]

[quote name='Lord Garka' date='25 February 2010 - 12:21 AM' timestamp='1267075520' post='2202698']
I am not reading 37 pages of stuff, Someone summarize what happened between page 1 and page 37...


[img]https://www.davidfarr.com/boat_cruise/contact/im_waiting_to_hear.gif[/img]
[/quote]
tl;dr NSO refuses to admit they got their @#$% handed to them in this war..so theyll continue to get said @#$% handed to them

[Willaim Kreiger]

[quote name='Killer Monkey land' date='24 February 2010 - 11:21 PM' timestamp='1267075529' post='2202699']
Since NpO abandoned the NSO because we would not accept peace, what are the peace terms on the table right now?
[/quote]
Your grasp of the situation in its entirety is pretty laughable to be honest.

[Dochartaigh]

[quote name='Midkn1ght' date='24 February 2010 - 09:48 PM' timestamp='1267069915' post='2202505']
You do realize that our alliance was the one trying to get peace for the Sith before the war exploded even harder right? That Xiph spent hours trying to gather everyone together to make it happen, with only a vote from Fark away from them being done? The only thing that's keeping them from peace atm afaik is the egos involved from several folks. When did the world become so that the weaker side gets to pick what terms it wants, and the public turns against the victors?
[/quote]

then i apologize for my error to GOD and Xiph. is GOD working towards possibly ending this war amicably for both parties or just Fark? (i will of course understand if it is just Fark as they are your allies after all)

[quote name='Penlugue Solaris' date='24 February 2010 - 10:18 PM' timestamp='1267071727' post='2202566']
You don't really seem to be able to read logs. Ok then, moving on. At that time, your leadership was willing to.

The fact that you won't accept terms that aren't exactly what you want is sad. Martyring yourself in this way doesn't make you some hero of the Cyberverse, it just makes you completely and absolutely stupid.

inb4 Fark is just as bad!!!! Seriously? The losers don't dictate terms. In regards to you not losing, get over yourselves. You are "defeated but haven't lost". Jesus, just give it up. The pity you want you don't get when you are rejecting terms such as these.
[/quote]

Losers have dictated terms before. The Orders did it in GPW. STA did it before. not to mention Karma set the precedent that alliances who enter via treaty obligation are generally granted white peace. the only term i believe that NSO needs to get over is the no re-entry term and that is simply because the war is still ongoing and could very well be ongoing a month or more from now, thus to prevent NSO from re-entering later down the road, that term is reasonable. the beer review should have been taken out the moment it was turned down.


[quote name='Penkala' date='24 February 2010 - 10:26 PM' timestamp='1267072229' post='2202590']
Yes. You're going to need to surrender. We might not be so adamant about this if the whole "we [NPO] essentially won GWI haha" thing hadn't happened. But it did. This time it's going to need to be a clear and obvious surrender so that it may not be used (at least convincingly) for future propaganda / recruiting purposes.
[/quote]

if the main point of getting NSO to surrender is to prevent some future propaganda attempt, then ya'll just really pathetic. that is the most ignorant and stupid reason i could possibly see (though this is CN so i may just be wrong). if this is true, then whatever honor ya'lls alliances had should be lost completely.

[quote name='Lord Brendan' date='24 February 2010 - 10:31 PM' timestamp='1267072498' post='2202605']
It isn't really that fine a line. In a surrender you have the winner and the loser (that's you! ). In white peace you just have two sides who are no longer at war due to a mutual agreement.

You've already acknowledged that you've lost; the next step is to surrender.
[/quote]

so let me get this straight. NSO/Ivan have admitted they lost and are willing to do that, just not surrender. so if what Penkala states is true, then whatever future propaganda NSO has is already lost since they are willing to state they lost.

not entirely sure what you want exactly? but it seems that you guys keep harping on NSO and their pride, when ya'lls pride is just as bad if not worse than NSO's.

[quote name='Midkn1ght' date='24 February 2010 - 10:37 PM' timestamp='1267072860' post='2202625']
NSO fought well, but this constant ego Charlie-Foxtrot , "We will not surrender, but we'll admit defeat, and these are the terms we'll accept" act is stupid. It winds up ticking off the folks who'd agree to the peace in the first place, then their ego's won't allow them to have a ceasefire, they'll only take a surrender, then the other side get's more hostile. Heck, this is applicable to many alliance across the various fronts. You want to stop fighting in a war everyone involved thinks is stupid? Christ, then do it. [b]How you get there isn't that freaking important[/b], especially since reps don't seem be a trend for this conflict so far.
[/quote]

bolded the new important part of that whole speech. it seems your side is putting far to much importance on !@#$ as much as NSO. so not sure if you meant this to be applied solely to NSO but given the way it is written it seems to be this way. if the how peace is gotten is not that important, then why is your side putting so much friggin importance on it instead of just giving peace to NSO?

most things cut both ways as both parties are acting stupidly and arrogantly. NSO though has a legit complaint since:

1) they entered the war only because of a treaty obligation
2) re-entered in part to prevent their allies in Terra Cotta from getting involved (or to get them out still not clear on that) as well as in part due to IRON
3) STA got white peace from Fark

so again, while i do feel that NSO should just accept the no re-entry term the rest should be dropped due to the fact that NSO is already crushed and what ya'll doin now is beating a defeated enemy who wants to save some face mostly because of the reasons they entered the war and their actions within this war. any alliance with honor would understand this and allow their enemy to save some face.

[quote name='WorldConqueror' date='24 February 2010 - 11:46 PM' timestamp='1267076974' post='2202727']
Perhaps you should have thought about that before you and your buddies got the ball rolling on that about a year ago. Karma is what has led to this point.
[/quote]

yarly. Karma is what led to this kind of debate. and the labeling of alliances who conducted actions that many consider deplorable are usually labeled as "evil" and "hegemonic" nowadays.

while i do not agree with some that white peace is the only viable option available at the end of a war (or peace with terms like no re-entry). the fact that an alliance who enters via treaty obligation should be given only a single term and that is no re-entry. few of the alliance's on TOP's side have gotten any terms really beyond the no re-entry term and i am still unclear as to the actual reasoning behind NSO being given more terms even though they are a hold over from the Polar-\m/ war.

[quote name='Methrage' date='24 February 2010 - 11:47 PM' timestamp='1267077042' post='2202730']
Fark can correct if I'm wrong here and I mistook them for being serious when they weren't, but last I heard the beer review peace is not available and now any peace would involve an indefinite amount of reps increasing depending on how long we wait before surrendering. Not sure if someone could really expect anyone to not take a no surrender policy when those are the options, but I'm not very motivated to surrender.
[/quote]

if this is true, then Fark is most definitely trying to become the GOONS that beat them down in their infancy. well at least it has come 180 degrees. can't wait for it to come 360 (if this is true) and Fark ends up getting the same beat down they got in their infancy.

[quote name='wickedj' date='25 February 2010 - 12:05 AM' timestamp='1267078142' post='2202757']
tl;dr NSO refuses to admit they got their @#$% handed to them in this war..so theyll continue to get said @#$% handed to them
[/quote]

actually NSO/Ivan have admitted they got their $@! handed to them this war. so this is just a straight up lie.

[Pablo Monkey]

[quote name='Willaim Kreiger' date='24 February 2010 - 10:13 PM' timestamp='1267078606' post='2202765']
Your grasp of the situation in its entirety is pretty laughable to be honest.
[/quote]

Great rebuttal, no substance to your answer just a No U answer. Good Job

[Xiphosis]

[quote]then i apologize for my error to GOD and Xiph. is GOD working towards possibly ending this war amicably for both parties or just Fark?[/quote]

I detached myself from the peace process after the redeclaration.

[TypoNinja]

[quote name='Dochartaigh' date='25 February 2010 - 01:45 AM' timestamp='1267080510' post='2202805']
not to mention Karma set the precedent that alliances who enter via treaty obligation are generally granted white peace
[/quote]

No it established that we don't think simply opposing us is a crime against humanity that should be severely punished, If there's no real beef, there's likely to be easy peace. We can recognize that a differing political view isn't a crime.

But anybody who thinks they are [i]entitled[/i] to white peace is kidding themselves.

You enter a war, you takes your chances, you might get off easy you might not. But who decides is going to be the victor just like always.

[Crowdog07]

[quote name='kevin32891' date='24 February 2010 - 07:25 PM' timestamp='1267061365' post='2202343']
In the three great wars I have fought in, I was on the loosing side. In the Unjust War when I was in GOONS, then in the Karma War in the NPO, and now the Cluster$#%& War in the NSO. I have been ZI'd numerous times, and I rebuild every time to my former position and beyond. If fighting this war with my brothers to the end means the destruction of my nation, so be it. At least I know that I would be fighting to gain something that we deserve as simple as "white peace" that our enemies can't even bring forth on the table.
[/quote]

As the loser, admittedly, you have an over-inflated sense of what you deserve. You think Fark gives a crap about your history in NPO or GOONS? That history has earned you nothing. You are currently being defeated and the only thing you deserve is your sovereignty and right to play this game. Fark's non-in-game terms deny you neither of those. Therefore you're getting exactly what you deserve. Just saying you have nothing to lose and you want white peace doesn't earn it for you.

[Anthony]

[quote]tl;dr NSO refuses to admit they got their @#$% handed to them in this war..so theyll continue to get said @#$% handed to them[/quote]

Ivan already [i]has[/i] admitted it.

Next.

[x Tela x]

[quote name='Crowdog' date='25 February 2010 - 02:42 AM' timestamp='1267083935' post='2202840']
As the loser, admittedly, you have an over-inflated sense of what you deserve. You think Fark gives a crap about your history in NPO or GOONS? That history has earned you nothing. You are currently being defeated and the only thing you deserve is your sovereignty and right to play this game. Fark's non-in-game terms deny you neither of those. Therefore you're getting exactly what you deserve. Just saying you have nothing to lose and you want white peace doesn't earn it for you.
[/quote]

Even so, Fark's terms are absolutely ridiculous. They serve no point but to humiliate their opponent.

[Xiphosis]

[quote]Even so, Fark's terms are absolutely ridiculous. They serve no point but to humiliate their opponent. [/quote]

Drinking (a) beer won't humiliate anyone. Drinking multiple may.

[Damon Sriv]

[quote name='x Tela x' date='25 February 2010 - 02:51 AM' timestamp='1267084484' post='2202842']
Even so, Fark's terms are absolutely ridiculous. They serve no point but to humiliate their opponent.
[/quote]


While frowned upon, its FARKs right to set these terms.. and NSOs to refuse terms.

Its not like in the old days when it was hundreds of thousands in tech and cash.. NSO is here due to pure stubborn pride at this point.

Which of course there is nothing wrong with.

[Anthony]

[quote name='Damon Sriv' date='25 February 2010 - 08:13 AM' timestamp='1267085823' post='2202850']
While frowned upon, its FARKs right to set these terms.. and NSOs to refuse terms.

Its not like in the old days when it was hundreds of thousands in tech and cash.. NSO is here due to pure stubborn pride at this point.

Which of course there is nothing wrong with.
[/quote]

Well the beer stuff is off the table now and they'll probably be demanding the money and tech soon enough.

[Crowdog07]

[quote name='x Tela x' date='25 February 2010 - 01:51 AM' timestamp='1267084484' post='2202842']
Even so, Fark's terms are absolutely ridiculous. They serve no point but to humiliate their opponent.
[/quote]

Since when is the purpose of surrender terms to compliment your opponent?

[Hymenbreach]

Anyone who has been trawling the Peanut Gallery knows that Ivan has been entering alleged 'White Peace' threads going 'Nah huh' a lot. I just get the feeling that this wasn't a serious peace offer. You don't seriously expect a serious minded, stiffnecked character like Ivan Moldavi to bend over and perform a lulz surrender term with a smile on his face? Ivan was right to see it wasn't a serious offer of peace and wait for someone who isn't giggling behind his hands to offer something more dignified before accepting surrender.

I think that clears matters up.

[Scorponok]

Seriously I hate to say it, but Grub what are you doing?! Seriously get a grip! Good luck out their Siths; I wish you all the best, may you reach peace soon.

[Lord Brendan]

[quote name='Anthony' date='25 February 2010 - 03:20 AM' timestamp='1267086244' post='2202851']
Well the beer stuff is off the table now and they'll probably be demanding the money and tech soon enough.
[/quote]

I love how you guys just keep making up punishments for us to apply. I don't believe anyone you're fighting as even mentioned reparations. I'm not sure about GO and GOD can speak for themselves, but Fark nor CSN have ever asked for reparations in their history, and I do not expect that to change.

As far as I know, the terms as they stand currently are:
-NSO admits defeats and surrenders to the forces of ___
-NSO agrees not to re-enter the war