Imperial Announcement from the New Pacific Order

[Galapagos]

[quote name='Aloop' date='18 February 2010 - 12:49 AM' timestamp='1266454152' post='2188411']
[b][u]It's true that they've managed to do the absolute minimum to meet the requirement[/u][/b]. When they've taken advantage of the wording of the ToS to stretch our patience, don't be surprised that we're not really inclined to be nice to them.
[/quote]

Yeah, if I were NPO, I'd be hopping up and down for the chance to pay reparations at a pace above and beyond to a marginal alliance.

[alyster]

Suddenly it's NPO's foult GOD dragged us into conflict. Oh right, it's always NPO's foult. Our foult the game only allows 5(6) aidslots per nation, it's our foult we are allowed to use only 1/7 of our alliance to pay tech reps, it's our foult people haven't read the same numbers few pages before in this threat and in general the fact that Polaris declared on \m/ is our foult aswell. Perhaps the war in Afghanistan is NPO's foult aswell? Everything else seems to be.

Edit: besides what was asked wasn't anything huge. Idea was simple: please leave us out of your war.

You know GOD, it's called WC that you need, not reps at war time.

Edited February 18, 2010 by alyster

[Bob]

[quote name='Galapagos' date='17 February 2010 - 07:58 PM' timestamp='1266454696' post='2188430']
Yeah, if I were NPO, I'd be hopping up and down for the chance to pay reparations at a pace above and beyond to a marginal alliance.
[/quote]
Err..I would. It gets you out of terms faster, doesn't it?

Personally I'd be happy to give them reps throughout the conflict, as long as it doesn't end up coming back to hurt me. Bit less time under terms wouldn't hurt me any.

^Means nothing in regards to their decision to suspend, I can respect that.

Edited February 18, 2010 by Penlugue Solaris

[Arcturus Jefferson]

[quote name='Galapagos' date='17 February 2010 - 07:58 PM' timestamp='1266454696' post='2188430']
Yeah, if I were NPO, I'd be hopping up and down for the chance to pay reparations at a pace above and beyond to a marginal alliance.
[/quote]
You're going to have to get your story straight; there have been several Pacificans saying they want to get out of terms as quickly as possibly - which would exactly be "hopping up and down for the chance to pay reparations at a pace above and beyond to a marginal alliance."

EDIT: Curse you Penlugue Solaris

Edited February 18, 2010 by Arcturus Jefferson

[Galapagos]

[quote name='Arcturus Jefferson' date='18 February 2010 - 01:05 AM' timestamp='1266455135' post='2188446']
You're going to have to get your story straight; there have been several Pacificans saying they want to get out of terms as quickly as possibly - which would exactly be "hopping up and down for the chance to pay reparations at a pace above and beyond to a marginal alliance."

EDIT: Curse you Penlugue Solaris
[/quote]

I'm just taking GOD's man at face value.
He could be a complete liar, for all I know. Wouldn't surprise me.

[Thrash]

[quote name='Aloop' date='17 February 2010 - 07:49 PM' timestamp='1266454152' post='2188411']
It's true that they've managed to do the absolute minimum to meet the requirement. When they've taken advantage of the wording of the ToS to stretch our patience, don't be surprised that we're not really inclined to be nice to them.
[/quote]

If the wording was "you must send X amount a month", then I fail to see how that's taking advantage of it. They are fulfilling their obligations 100%.

[Aurion]

[quote name='Galapagos' date='17 February 2010 - 07:58 PM' timestamp='1266454696' post='2188430']
Yeah, if I were NPO, I'd be hopping up and down for the chance to pay reparations at a pace above and beyond to a marginal alliance.
[/quote]

Yeah, and we're just jumping at the chance to do them a favor.

...Or are we doing them a favor by shortening their terms time? Who knows.

Funny how these things work, isn't it?

[Bob]

[quote name='Galapagos' date='17 February 2010 - 08:07 PM' timestamp='1266455248' post='2188449']
I'm just taking GOD's man at face value.
He could be a complete liar, for all I know. Wouldn't surprise me.
[/quote]
No, its true. NPO has been barely meeting the bare minimum. However, your statement that they would not be eager to pay reparations is not accurate. They get off terms faster if reparations get paid faster.

[Letum]

[quote name='Aloop' date='18 February 2010 - 12:49 AM' timestamp='1266454152' post='2188411']
Deliberately dragging your feet, and wasting our aid slots....
[/quote]

Do you have any proof to back up your handy little propaganda line?

It is kinda hard to send aid to *your* open slots, when we only have less than a hundred nations available to send aid to everyone, and we only have so many slots *ourselves*.

If you have facts and figures, you're welcome to counteract my previous point however:

[quote]While it will no doubt make people comfortable to lay the blame for the long time of these reps on the NPO rather than the massive size of the demands, the fact remains that the NPO has been sending tech at the highest speed we can manage. And in fact, if you compare in terms of the amount of reps sent per eligible member per month, the NPO is probably amongst the fastest, if not the fastest, rep givers ever. It's just that speed is only one of the factors that determines total time; quantity is important too.

But that's what happens when you limit who can pay, along with asking a lot. It takes time to give it. Especially when we're left with a very small amount of people who *can* pay, since half of our original "eligible" paying nations have either left the alliance or planet bob altogether. The majority of our nations are forced to sit around, unable to do anything because of that. It's hard to drag your feet when you're not even allowed to move them.[/quote]

Several people within NPO, including Jasmine and myself (until November), have worked very hard in order to make sure that we send as much reps as we can. Everyone eligible is required to send, and we hunt people down relentlessly to ensure aid is sent. In fact, we just recently expelled a number of people who would't participate in said aid.

Having people like you come in and accuse us of "deliberately dragging our feet", when we are putting so much effort in gaining our freedom as fast as possible is infuriating. [u]We are in fact paying more than the minimum - we are approximately at 70% completion in 50% of the allotted time - and that is the best we can do.[/u] If you compare it with historical records, the speed at which our limited nations are sending aid is more than most other rep-payers in the world. The only real competition for speed would come from NpO, who also faced restrictions on who can send.

So no, I will not accept you coming in here and claiming that what ended up bearing the time equivalent of a full-time job for me was us dragging our feet. You can feed that propaganda to the masses to justify the continuation of their hatred for us, but you won't feed such spin to me.

Edited February 18, 2010 by Letum

[silentkiller]

[quote name='Aloop' date='18 February 2010 - 12:49 AM' timestamp='1266454152' post='2188411']
The NPO was more than welcome to finish paying our reps before the war started. Most of us had slots open for NPO reps (which we were told were coming) all through the autumn. Deliberately dragging your feet, and wasting our aid slots when we could have been using them for other things did little to convince me that you were sincere in your efforts.


They never lacked rep targets. They had the list almost immediately after they surrendered. They chose to drag their feet as much as possible. For those who don't know (most of you) I'm the ex-LoIA. I got the wonderful job of trying to convince people that Pacifica was actually going to be sending out the reps soon. Yeah. They sure came through on their end. When it was a deliberate tactic, or just malicious inaction, Pacifica wasted a ton of our aid slots every month.


[b]It's true that they've managed to do the absolute minimum to meet the requirement. When they've taken advantage of the wording of the ToS to stretch our patience, don't be surprised that we're not really inclined to be nice to them.[/b]
[/quote]

Hi there we are not asking you to be nice, we have figured out you are incapable of doing so. What we want now is that you also fulfill the terms that your alliance signed.

Hint: that term is not "if we want to " or "if we are not busy" term as well. Thank you.

Edited February 18, 2010 by silentkiller

[Tojamn]

[quote name='Penlugue Solaris' date='17 February 2010 - 08:11 PM' timestamp='1266455503' post='2188462']
No, its true. NPO has been barely meeting the bare minimum. However, your statement that they would not be eager to pay reparations is not accurate. They get off terms faster if reparations get paid faster.
[/quote]


No its [u][b]not[/b][/u] true. As my Comrades have stated, We are paying more than our monthly minimums. If you have evidence that states other wise you are free to present them to be discussed.

[Ejayrazz]

Never mind. Ignore.

Edited February 18, 2010 by Ejayrazz

[TrotskysRevenge]

We have less than 100 nations able to send out the tech reps because of the 1k+ requirement in the terms. Despite that, we have sent much more than the minimum would require. I know that rep targets are sent out every cycle because I am one of those nations; I have 6 slots and all 6 slots are used to send out tech.

If you have an actual fact that demonstrates differently, by all means bring it out. Otherwise, you are simply spreading untruth and deception to deflect from the fact that your alliance, GOD, has messed up in this instance by demanding reps still be sent despite the war. And before you state that it shouldn't matter, don't forget this thread [url]http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=81061[/url] where some of the same posters in this thread who are saying that GOD's stance is perfectly acceptable state there that the payment of any kind to combatants is an act of war and should be avoided.

Go figure.

[Bilrow]

[quote name='TrotskysRevenge' date='17 February 2010 - 10:51 PM' timestamp='1266468673' post='2188879']
:ph34r:

We have less than 100 nations able to send out the tech reps because of the 1k+ requirement in the terms. Despite that, we have sent much more than the minimum would require. I know that rep targets are sent out every cycle because I am one of those nations; I have 6 slots and all 6 slots are used to send out tech.

If you have an actual fact that demonstrates differently, by all means bring it out. Otherwise, you are simply spreading untruth and deception to deflect from the fact that your alliance, GOD, has messed up in this instance by demanding reps still be sent despite the war. And before you state that it shouldn't matter, don't forget this thread [url]http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=81061[/url] where some of the same posters in this thread who are saying that GOD's stance is perfectly acceptable state there that the payment of any kind to combatants is an act of war and should be avoided.

Go figure.
[/quote]


I blame Bilrow. It's his fault that we can't win either way .

[Lord of Destruction]

While I know my opinion is ranked quite low in some folks books, and I know that me stating it likely won't change any minds, I will anyway:

GOD should suspend the reps for the remainder of the war.

This isn't about whether NPO deserves more punishment than they got in your eyes or not. This is about common courtesy.

I don't care if Pacifica did it two years ago. I don't care that you think they didn't pay off all their debts by being destroyed in the Karma war.

What I do care about are the facts, and those happen to be two things. One, Pacifica has done nothing to get itself involved in this war - militarily or politically. Two, if GOD doesn't suspend the payments for the remainder of the war, they are forcing Pacifica to commit what has been considered an act of war on Planet Bob for a long time.

That said, it's your prerogative to do whatever benefits you most, GOD. In my opinion, suspending the reps for the remainder of the war is exactly that.

[Brenann]

[quote name='Bilrow' date='18 February 2010 - 12:11 AM' timestamp='1266469910' post='2188931']
I blame Bilrow. It's his fault that we can't win either way .
[/quote]
I blame Bilrow as well... always messing up the good things in life

[auto98]

[quote name='Penlugue Solaris' date='18 February 2010 - 01:11 AM' timestamp='1266455503' post='2188462']
No, its true. NPO has been barely meeting the bare minimum. However, your statement that they would not be eager to pay reparations is not accurate. They get off terms faster if reparations get paid faster.
[/quote]

So they have been meeting their terms then (not "barely").

Whereas telling them that they will not be protected against rogues during the war is breaking the terms.

So which side has done wrong again?

[SpacingOutMan]

[quote name='TrotskysRevenge' date='17 February 2010 - 11:51 PM' timestamp='1266468673' post='2188879']
If you have an actual fact that demonstrates differently, by all means bring it out. Otherwise, you are simply spreading untruth and deception to deflect from the fact that your alliance, GOD, has messed up in this instance by demanding reps still be sent despite the war. And before you state that it shouldn't matter, don't forget this thread [url]http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=81061[/url] where some of the same posters in this thread who are saying that GOD's stance is perfectly acceptable state there that the payment of any kind to combatants is an act of war and should be avoided.

Go figure.
[/quote]

And by Admin Almighty I feel the compulsion to agree with you, and I do agree with you.

Despite being my allies, and I love GOD to death, they made a tactical and logical mistake in demanding reps continue during the war. With that said, my distaste for their actions does not trump their sovereignty, so they may do as they please. Either way, it's business as usual.

[karthikking]

If GOD does not want to suspend their ToS then they should do their part. They are obligated to do so. It is not, When we are not busy or when feel like it we must defend you.

[Arcturus Jefferson]

[quote name='karthikking' date='19 February 2010 - 01:24 AM' timestamp='1266560657' post='2191697']
If GOD does not want to suspend their ToS then they should do their part. They are obligated to do so. It is not, When we are not busy or when feel like it we must defend you.
[/quote]
What would they need to do to "do their part"? Unless there are rogues attacking the NPO that GOD isn't dealing with, but I honestly don't know who the NPO needs defending against right now.

[Vladimir]

[quote name='Arcturus Jefferson' date='19 February 2010 - 06:41 AM' timestamp='1266561688' post='2191725']Unless there are rogues attacking the NPO that GOD isn't dealing with[/quote]
I think that point may have been made once or twice earlier in the thread.

[Bilrow]

[quote name='silentkiller' date='16 February 2010 - 08:48 PM' timestamp='1266374881' post='2186749']
http://www.cybernations.net/nation_drill_display.asp?Nation_ID=95803

I have pointed this nation out many times. and there are 2 more that are within range.
[/quote]


[quote name='Arcturus Jefferson' date='19 February 2010 - 12:41 AM' timestamp='1266561688' post='2191725']
What would they need to do to "do their part"? Unless there are rogues attacking the NPO that GOD isn't dealing with, but I honestly don't know who the NPO needs defending against right now.
[/quote]

Since GOD either seems to want to turn a blind eye to it or as in this case wait till the war expires and make believe it never was there. However, that's quite the norm GOD does not honor its part of the Terms of Surrender.

There are also currently 2 more wars in the 4000 and 2000 NS range.

Edited February 19, 2010 by Bilrow

[Ivan Moldavi]

If you would like I can see what I can dig up in NSO. Even though several alliances have started to bail and free up our enemies to engage us further I can try to take up some of the slack from GOD.

Perhaps your rep payment can be sent to us directly instead of to them since we will be performing a service on their behalf?

[Mustakrakish II]

Best thing you could do, although you could've pulled the Hegemony part out. That words a little touchy and makes me want to punch you in the face.

Good luck. Hopefully this doesn't make the war expand further