enderland Posted November 15, 2009 Report Share Posted November 15, 2009 Talk about pointless posturing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Bad Posted November 15, 2009 Report Share Posted November 15, 2009 That's what I am thinking. The OP addresses the consequences of bringing war to Athens, but I don't see anything about the consequences of tech raiding. Why thats because their are no consequences its all in fun of course. Athens has shown us all the way. A mass tech raid on an alliance is not war nor an act of war. Its just good fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archon Posted November 15, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 15, 2009 By their own admission, they feel they've done nothing wrong and are making amends only as a result of the bad PR their actions have generated. I ask the following as a genuine question, not as an attempt to troll: how does the above fit in with what you've said? I included the line "We will work with them to correct it, and to address the issues that lead to the mistake" for that specific reason. I do not agree with their assessment, and have made it quite clear to them in private. And we are moving from there. What if someone brings a Tech Raid instead of war? They are different things now, so I can see how it might get kind of confusing. Cute. You and I both know how it'll end, Random. Archon, I love you dearly, but I will go through you if you stand in my way... but you know that already. I am tired of the only alliances being accountable for their deliberate actions as being ones that have Order in their name. Can't say I blame you or disagree, really. But then again, you treatied MK for the precise reason that we *will* stand in your way. When "sticking up for allies" means enabling and defending their bad behavior, it is neither honorable nor respectable. I hope that in the future, Federation of Buccaneers and Athens understand that, but more importantly, MK et al. as well. See: my response to Crymson. I'm doing more than just "sticking up for allies." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazymatty Posted November 15, 2009 Report Share Posted November 15, 2009 I second Grub's query. Why are the Orders the only alliances who must be held accountable for their actions. I'm glad there is such an swelling of support for Athens actions. Don't forget TPF...they were held accountable as well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Levistus Posted November 15, 2009 Report Share Posted November 15, 2009 That's what I am thinking. The OP addresses the consequences of bringing war to Athens, but I don't see anything about the consequences of tech raiding. Because there are none when you're on top, which is why everyone worked so hard to tear down the Orders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homura Posted November 15, 2009 Report Share Posted November 15, 2009 When "sticking up for allies" means enabling and defending their bad behavior, it is neither honorable nor respectable. I hope that in the future, Federation of Buccaneers and Athens understand that, but more importantly, MK et al. as well. Again, this is why everyone hated The Initiative. You know, protecting idiots like Golden Sabres and GOONS who made their certain brand of atrocious behaviour the accepted paradigm. But nobody remembers that !@#$ anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LegendoftheSkies Posted November 15, 2009 Report Share Posted November 15, 2009 Interestingly worded sentence considering what kicked off all the drama. Doesn't make it untrue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Epiphanus Posted November 15, 2009 Report Share Posted November 15, 2009 Archon, I love you dearly, but I will go through you if you stand in my way... but you know that already. I am tired of the only alliances being accountable for their deliberate actions as being ones that have Order in their name. Uh oh... consider this thrown: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archon Posted November 15, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 15, 2009 Interestingly worded sentence considering what kicked off all the drama. Done so on purpose. I didn't approve of Athens' actions, and I don't approve of those who are deciding to show their opposition through brutal war. You have my force lightning. Duly noted. That's what I am thinking. The OP addresses the consequences of bringing war to Athens, but I don't see anything about the consequences of tech raiding. The consequences will become apparent. If you think I'm defending tech raiding then you clearly have not read a thing I've posted. Also, duly noted. They maintain that they've done nothing wrong, and that we're all just too small-minded to see it. Why should we possibly believe that they are trying to rectify a situation that they see as already full of rectitude? Once again, I've addressed this already with Crymson. That being said, if you think it's your job to act as moral hammer and destroy a bloc of alliances just because one tech raided a group of 39 then you've got that high horse shoved up a bit too high, methinks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enderland Posted November 15, 2009 Report Share Posted November 15, 2009 Talk about pointless posturing. The more I think about it, a bunch of NpOers complaining in this thread is simply hilarious, given NpO's position the last time neutral alliances were harassed (albeit to a lesser degree) by one of their allies, that they too chose to support in spite of their actions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaiser Posted November 15, 2009 Report Share Posted November 15, 2009 This just in! Lots of Posturing between main bloc! NPO seen sitting in the corner muttering "Just as planned" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delta1212 Posted November 15, 2009 Report Share Posted November 15, 2009 Archon, I love you dearly, but I will go through you if you stand in my way... but you know that already. I am tired of the only alliances being accountable for their deliberate actions as being ones that have Order in their name. Just remember that extending accountability to everyone else doesn't remove it from your shoulders, though I have no doubt you realize this. Always good to provide helpful reminders, in any case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
President Obama Posted November 15, 2009 Report Share Posted November 15, 2009 What if someone brings a Tech Raid instead of war? They are different things now, so I can see how it might get kind of confusing. Agreeing with this post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William Blake Posted November 15, 2009 Report Share Posted November 15, 2009 That's a shame. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archon Posted November 15, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 15, 2009 Again, this is why everyone hated The Initiative. You know, protecting idiots like Golden Sabres and GOONS who made their certain brand of atrocious behaviour the accepted paradigm. But nobody remembers that !@#$ anyway. Really? The former Co-Leader of LUE doesn't remember what the Initiative and the GOONS did? Really? You're going to go there, Katsumi? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ski11585 Posted November 15, 2009 Report Share Posted November 15, 2009 Anyone attempting to use recent events as a means to bring war to Athens' doorstep will regret it. I assure you. I find this highly amusing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remaliat Posted November 15, 2009 Report Share Posted November 15, 2009 Anyone attempting to use recent events as a means to bring war to Athens' doorstep will regret it. I assure you. You will just use the Optional clause in your treaty as opposed to just flat out breaking the treaty? Yes you are right I will regret that we would have given you the opportunity to not actually break a treaty... Just to ignore it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomInterrupt Posted November 15, 2009 Report Share Posted November 15, 2009 Cute. You and I both know how it'll end, Random. Well, I wasn't trying to be cute. I was asking a serious question. I wouldn't answer it either. Another serious question. How is this any different than when the NPO let their smaller allies do whatever they wanted without any fear of retribution? MK is certainly in a rough situation here, but to outright support Athens in this is to make it clear that Athens is allowed to declare wars and get away with it where other alliances would have to pay for their mistakes. For those of us who have spent years fighting against that kind of thing, well, it changes things a bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEraser Posted November 15, 2009 Report Share Posted November 15, 2009 This is nothing less the posturing where it was not needed, Archon. You are only fanning the flames and making things worse. You're an intelligent man, you should know that this was better suited to back channels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stonewall Jaxon Posted November 15, 2009 Report Share Posted November 15, 2009 When "sticking up for allies" means enabling and defending their bad behavior, it is neither honorable nor respectable. I hope that in the future, Federation of Buccaneers and Athens understand that, but more importantly, MK et al. as well. That's a "fair-weather friend" load of crap. If you're going to run out on your treaty partners just because they're to blame for an incident, then your MDP should have just said "We stand by [alliance], whenever they're popular and not at war." Now, the reason you make a treaty partner is because, hopefully, you know the alliance well enough to know whether or not they will take absurd, idiotic actions. But, once you commit to defending an alliance from attack, you do fulfill your contractual obligations. If anybody in CN had a lick of since (a brash concept), nobody would ever sign a binding treaty with an alliance that had previously violated a treaty (ODN, MHA, etc.) because it then becomes a null and void, half-commited, one-way agreement, and does not in any way serve either alliance for the better. In response to the OP, Archon, I respect your tenacity and loyalty. However, your post seems like you're trying to scare whoever is reading it, and I fear no man: not you, not anyone. If I was the leader of an alliance, and I had wanted to attack Athens for this (which I wouldn't), this little intimidation attempt wouldn't deter me in the slightest. So, I don't like the way you worded it, but I do respect what you're saying Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D34th Posted November 15, 2009 Report Share Posted November 15, 2009 I could not expect anything else from MK, that's one of the reasons that I love you, stand by your allies not matter what happens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirWilliam Posted November 15, 2009 Report Share Posted November 15, 2009 We're not fair-weather friends or allies here, so we won't bail on them when it gets tough for either of us. We will make our opinions and viewpoints very clear to them, in private, and work with them, to work through it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desperado Posted November 15, 2009 Report Share Posted November 15, 2009 (edited) Anyone attempting to use recent events as a means to bring war to Athens' doorstep will regret it. I assure you. Wait, wait, wait. Where is the selective part of that statement? You know, the asterisk, superscript, anything to tell us to read the fine print at the bottom explaining how it's only at the discretion of ODN in which they will only side with the winners? Edit: I'll see it when I believe it. Edited November 15, 2009 by Desperado Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vilien Posted November 15, 2009 Report Share Posted November 15, 2009 MK's loyalty has never been in question, and I doubt it ever will be. Good show. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Londo Mollari Posted November 15, 2009 Report Share Posted November 15, 2009 By their own admission, they feel they've done nothing wrong and are making amends only as a result of the bad PR their actions have generated. I ask the following as a genuine question, not as an attempt to troll: how does the above fit in with what you've said? If you read the conversation, I admitted to Ramon that yes the raid was wrong. I should not have authorized it. It was an enormous error in judgement, and I am sorry for it. That is why I am making amends. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.