Ski11585 Posted November 15, 2009 Report Share Posted November 15, 2009 Make things rough for me babe, and we'll see who goes running. Such bravado from an alliance that has proven so little. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormsend Posted November 15, 2009 Report Share Posted November 15, 2009 And it all could have been avoided if someone had just used a little common sense. This is possibly the greatest thing I've read today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archon Posted November 15, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 15, 2009 I'm sorry Archon. You are normally the still small voice of reason in the midst of the tempest, but you posting on Athens' behalf that you will help them correct their mistake bears the same level of intellectual honesty as any old war-guilt clause tacked on to a set of surrender terms. Lest you think that opposing tech-raiding is a new hobby of mine, you should check my record. Thugs like the Poison Clan earn my ire all the time. I specifically choose my tech sellers from tech raid victims. Thuggery on such an unprecedented level as this will no doubt inspire an equally unprecedented response. I despise tech raiding and have been rather vehemently angry and active in back channels regarding this. I'm aware you don't see it, and I quite frankly don't care. So long as I achieve the results I'm aiming for I'll be happy. I respect the position you've taken on this issue Archon and understand your motive to give them a second chance, I however think you're likely to find yourself disappointed. This whole affair isn't just a localized issue. If alliances can get away with the whole-sale raiding of small alliances just because their bloc mates are willing to stand by them and their insincere apologies Planet Bob just became more hostile for many of us. It certainly did a number on my own opinions, you're now supporting a legitimate threat to myself and the people in my alliance. I'm doing more than just supporting them or giving them a second chance. I'm taking an active role in correcting their mistakes. Replace every instance of MK with NPO and every instance of Athens with GGA, and be amazed at the hypocrisy of it being ok for other alliances to stand by their allies when they mess up (ie: GGA and the NoCB war) but not NPO. Get back to me once Athens has wholesale disbanded alliances and sparked color sphere wars. Hey you're the one going there by becoming them, Mr Karma Incarnate. I don't have to do anything but sit back and watch this train wreck. You really don't have any idea what you're talking about, do you... So, you aren't really disagreeing with me. What MK appears to be saying is, KoFN is free to retaliate, but you will act as a deterrent and protector to their attacker. This is the same policy as the old Hegemony, for the record. You are saying that your opinion on how this should be resolved is more important than that of the victim. I just don't understand that mentality.Not really. He has his, very valid mind you, reasons for believing this. There was a time in which small alliances had to be afraid of being raided all in "good fun" and without retribution. Many of us were happy to believe that said era had passed. If we are back to that environment, well that would be a major setback. As others have said, it isn't so much a matter of Athens vs KoFN as much as setting the precedence of the post-Karma world. As such many individuals are going to be invested in this topic. I was not addressing this to KoFN. Athens already addressed their relationship with KoFN in another thread. Those who I am referring to know who they are. Most have gotten in touch with me already. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delendum Posted November 15, 2009 Report Share Posted November 15, 2009 So, you aren't really disagreeing with me. What MK appears to be saying is, KoFN is free to retaliate, but you will act as a deterrent and protector to their attacker. This is the same policy as the old Hegemony, for the record. You are saying that your opinion on how this should be resolved is more important than that of the victim. I just don't understand that mentality.Not really. He has his, very valid mind you, reasons for believing this. There was a time in which small alliances had to be afraid of being raided all in "good fun" and without retribution. Many of us were happy to believe that said era had passed. If we are back to that environment, well that would be a major setback. As others have said, it isn't so much a matter of Athens vs KoFN as much as setting the precedence of the post-Karma world. As such many individuals are going to be invested in this topic. We will attack whoever thinks now would be a good time to come gunning for Athens. That doesn't mean we'll attack KoFN should they retaliate, that was never even considered. Yes, we are not pleased at all with their actions, and yes, we want them to make amends, what we're saying is we'll protect them should anybody take this opportunity to come after our ally. Hell, it's not like we're threatening KoFN's allies with a curb stomp should they live up to their treaties, that's exactly the point, nobody has a treaty obligation in this matter, and we will not give Athens to people who just want to use this as an excuse to see them burn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wickedj Posted November 15, 2009 Report Share Posted November 15, 2009 If all the self-righteous tools in this thread would just consider this sentence, this whole thing wouldn't even be an issue. Just think of how this whole matter would have changed had people let things play out overnight. here we are less than 24 hours after and Londo has apologized and said he will see to it that things get straightened out..yet people are still up in arms like he just kicked a puppy on the 6 o'clock news Ah well, im going to go tech raid someone *looks at Jack Diorno* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Epiphanus Posted November 15, 2009 Report Share Posted November 15, 2009 Replace every instance of MK with NPO and every instance of Athens with GGA, and be amazed at the hypocrisy of it being ok for other alliances to stand by their allies when they mess up (ie: GGA and the NoCB war) but not NPO. No one did anything to GGA during the NoCB war. I don't see where you are going with this... GGA was blatant warmongering during that war, I don't see your analogy clicking here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archon Posted November 15, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 15, 2009 I don't understand why you guy's can't even call them an alliance. Is CoJ a "group of 8" or is MK a "group of 174"?I'm glad you and Athens are winding things down, but seriously, why does reality and the definition of terms like war and alliance not apply to the parties involved in all this? It's snobbery. You're reaching, Schatt. I used group of 39 because I had just used alliances and quite frankly I was trying to draw attention the large number by using it. Rather than just saying alliance, which could have stood for any of the 5-10 many microalliances that get raided daily that you aren't all over the forums bemoaning, I wanted to make it crystal clear that I am not ignoring the severity of their actions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heft Posted November 15, 2009 Report Share Posted November 15, 2009 Just think of how this whole matter would have changed had people let things play out overnight. here we are less than 24 hours after and Londo has apologized and said he will see to it that things get straightened out..yet people are still up in arms like he just kicked a puppy on the 6 o'clock newsAh well, im going to go tech raid someone *looks at Jack Diorno* You realize it was only the massive public backlash and fear of imminent reprisal that pushed Athens into the amends corner in the first place, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vilien Posted November 15, 2009 Report Share Posted November 15, 2009 Didnt you slate Q alliances for doing the same thing, sticking by each other no matter what. No, I was upset when you all acted like cowards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Conrad Posted November 15, 2009 Report Share Posted November 15, 2009 Replace every instance of MK with NPO and every instance of Athens with GGA, and be amazed at the hypocrisy of it being ok for other alliances to stand by their allies when they mess up (ie: GGA and the NoCB war) but not NPO. Their involvement in the WoTC throws your logic out the window, no? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sulmar Posted November 15, 2009 Report Share Posted November 15, 2009 What I smell between the few glimpses of true morality is a big pile of opportunism. Really now, this is a [ooc]political simulator[ooc] so I would think that opportunism is the name of the game. Athens saw an opportunity to attack an alliance without consequences, and other alliances see an opportunity to hurt a political rival. Don't hate the player, hate the game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alterego Posted November 15, 2009 Report Share Posted November 15, 2009 (edited) No, I was upset when you they all acted like cowards. Your opinion is your opinion but I was never in Q. What happened wasnt heroic either. Edited November 15, 2009 by Alterego Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solanine Posted November 15, 2009 Report Share Posted November 15, 2009 Such bravado from an alliance that has proven so little. Such !@#$ from an alliance that is trying to stand out like a beacon of morality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strudeldorf Posted November 15, 2009 Report Share Posted November 15, 2009 (edited) How is Athens responding to this encroachment on their sovereignty? Edited November 15, 2009 by Strudeldorf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archon Posted November 15, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 15, 2009 You realize it was only the massive public backlash and fear of imminent reprisal that pushed Athens into the amends corner in the first place, right? Quite frankly none of us (their allies) had a chance to respond given how quickly it was broken to the public. The moment I found out about it via query, and well before checking these forums, I was flipping out at Athens over it. So um...no. You can't make that statement as a factual one because there *was* no chance for them to do anything because we didn't have the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vilien Posted November 15, 2009 Report Share Posted November 15, 2009 Your opinion is your opinion but I was never in Q. What happened wasnt heroic either. I keep lumping you all together, I'm sorry. You're all just so similar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilrow Posted November 15, 2009 Report Share Posted November 15, 2009 (edited) No one did anything to GGA during the NoCB war. I don't see where you are going with this... GGA was blatant warmongering during that war, I don't see your analogy clicking here. Their involvement in the WoTC throws your logic out the window, no? My point being that it was so wrong for New Pacific Order to stand by GGA when they messed and didn't drop their treaties even though common sense would have said to, but when MK stands by one of their allies messing up to the same degree it's "honorable" and justifiable. Just pointing out the irony of it all. Edited November 15, 2009 by Bilrow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebel Virginia Posted November 15, 2009 Report Share Posted November 15, 2009 Replace every instance of MK with NPO and every instance of Athens with GGA, and be amazed at the hypocrisy of it being ok for other alliances to stand by their allies when they mess up (ie: GGA and the NoCB war) but not NPO. Look at you people. You're making me agree with Bilrow, but then again, I'm hardly surprised. This is exactly what I said the post-Karma world would be. No different at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solanine Posted November 15, 2009 Report Share Posted November 15, 2009 Really now, this is a [ooc]political simulator[ooc] so I would think that opportunism is the name of the game. Athens saw an opportunity to attack an alliance without consequences, and other alliances see an opportunity to hurt a political rival. Don't hate the player, hate the game. I agree, and while I hate the game, I do hate the player as well, because mixed within these pointless statements of opportunism, is snide remarks, blatant [ooc]flamebaiting[/ooc], and general namecalling that do nothing to aid in the conversation whatsoever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archon Posted November 15, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 15, 2009 How is Athens responding to this encroachment on their sovereignty? lolwut? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tick1 Posted November 15, 2009 Report Share Posted November 15, 2009 You will forever be our brother's keeper. Shall you guide us through the selfish tyranny of evil men and onto the path of the righteous man. For those who would attempt to poison my brother will be struck down with great vengeance and furious anger. You will know my word are true when I lay my vengeance upon thee. Everything is appreciated Complaints and Grievance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dujek Onearm Posted November 15, 2009 Report Share Posted November 15, 2009 Such bravado from an alliance that has proven so little. Man, this is really boring. When/if this starts, we will see who will do what and someone here will be proven wrong, lets wait and see who. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trinite Posted November 15, 2009 Report Share Posted November 15, 2009 Replace every instance of MK with NPO and every instance of Athens with GGA, and be amazed at the hypocrisy of it being ok for other alliances to stand by their allies when they mess up (ie: GGA and the NoCB war) but not NPO. I don't remember GGA apologizing the next day and promising to makes amends. I remember everyone on the other side being rolled. The similarity in the actions of all the players involved is non-existent. Had GGA stopped attacks and agreed to makes amends or had GGA's allies chastised them in private while protecting them from retaliation for a single stupid move, then maybe you could draw parallel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nintenderek Posted November 15, 2009 Report Share Posted November 15, 2009 Good show by the Mushroom Kingdom. It's better to forgive friends when they make mistakes then to just forget about them. However, this was one giant mistake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilrow Posted November 15, 2009 Report Share Posted November 15, 2009 (edited) And the fact that you have people like Bob Janova, Ender Land, and Rebel Virigina agreeing with me, distresses me to no end. How will I maintain my "Most Loathed" title? /me goes to shower in bleach. Edited November 15, 2009 by Bilrow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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