An Announcement from the Mushroom Kingdom

[delendum]

No, but you wouldn't try to justify what they did if you didn't actually believe what you were posting. How are we supposed to know that it's only a public show of support and not what you really believe?

Our actions are what we believe in. We aren't trying to justify what they did, we are trying to prevent an unjustified war that has the potential to derive from this. We fully believe all of this has been blown way out of proportions, and we're trying to argument that.

[Eden Taylor]

I was gone today and am sad I didn't watch this unfold because it's unlikely I'll be able to completely read up on the festivities. This announcement should have been unncessary, but by virtue of the fact that it was made it is suggestive of the possibility that it was necessary. Whether it was necessary or not, it's a good show, and a good message.

[Essenia]

Personally, I believe Athens should be given a chance to make amends:

1) They should have to pay back 300% of damage

2) Athens apologize and admit fault, remorse, and regret

3) Athens surrenders to the Knights

4) Athens disarms all military improvements, nukes, CMs, tanks, planes, boats, and soldiers to 30%

5) Athens is under the protection of the Knights for 6 months

That seems fair. Wouldn't you agree, Archon?

Once again, NPO shows themselves to be Athens' best friend in the PR war. Just get out. The only people who care for your sniveling self-pity are the same sycophants who hailed your every move.

[Ragashingo]

Personally, I believe Athens should be given a chance to make amends:

1) They should have to pay back 300% of damage

2) Athens apologize and admit fault, remorse, and regret

3) Athens surrenders to the Knights

4) Athens disarms all military improvements, nukes, CMs, tanks, planes, boats, and soldiers to 30%

5) Athens is under the protection of the Knights for 6 months

That seems fair. Wouldn't you agree, Archon?

I wondered when you'd show up to whine. Took longer than I expected.

Edited November 15, 2009 by Ragashingo

[Eden Taylor]

Once again, NPO shows themselves to be Athens' best friend in the PR war. Just get out. The only people who care for your sniveling self-pity are the same sycophants who hailed your every move.

That's giving their sycophants more credit than they deserve regarding their ability to maintain feelings and opinions beyond the scope of the immediate benefit. A type of relationship that we see here in this announcement being fundamentally disagreed with.

Edited November 15, 2009 by Eden Taylor

[Nintenderek]

Personally, I believe Athens should be given a chance to make amends:

1) They should have to pay back 300% of damage

2) Athens apologize and admit fault, remorse, and regret

3) Athens surrenders to the Knights

4) Athens disarms all military improvements, nukes, CMs, tanks, planes, boats, and soldiers to 30%

5) Athens is under the protection of the Knights for 6 months

That seems fair. Wouldn't you agree, Archon?

Do you honestly think your making your alliance look any better with posts like these?

[Sir Paul]

I wondered when you'd show up to whine. Took longer than I expected.

Not whining. When Moo made a mistake and hit OV, he realized his mistake and tried to work something out. The above deal is more generous than what Archon offered for one day of war.

[Ragashingo]

Not whining. When Moo made a mistake and hit OV, he realized his mistake and tried to work something out. The above deal is more generous than what Archon offered for one day of war.

First off, yes it is whining. All you and your alliance ever seems to do anymore is try to, in offhand ways, complain about how unfair your terms are. Fine, we get it. Now go away. I swear I think I might have liked the NPO better when ya'll acted sure of yourselves instead of like a bunch of babies.

Secondly, your comparison is flawed. You know it, I know it. Go make some more fun music or something, but this kind of thing is lame.

[Drostan]

If there's one thing that can bring two disparate parties together, it's the mutual frustration that Pacifica still has not learned that Planet Bob does not revolve around them.

I do not know what threats were given in private that allegedly prompted this message, but honestly, I cannot imagine someone thinking MK wouldn't back Athens up if they attacked. I will agree with Raga in that anyone who would be deterred from attacking because MK stated that they were still intending to honour their treaty (d'uhh) probably would have made for a boring war anyway. I still fail to see what throwing this in everyone's face does differently than communicating directly with whoever was sending whatever threats have been alluded to.

I also apparently missed that crucial turning point where all of Planet Bob decided they had it out for Athens. If NSO had done this I'd have expected declarations to fly for sure. I don't buy that people are just trying to trump this up to get at Athens because they've been drinking so much haterade. Doesn't make sense.

EDIT: For vanity! For Ragashingo!

Edited November 15, 2009 by Drostan

[Ragashingo]

I still fail to see what throwing this in everyone's face does differently than communicating directly with whoever was sending whatever threats have been alluded to.

That one is easy. This way MK doesn't have to hurry from embassy to embassy telling each aggrieved alliance the bad news. Also there is far less chance that they'll miss someone in their haste.

I also apparently missed that crucial turning point where all of Planet Bob decided they had it out for Athens. If NSO had done this I'd have expected declarations to fly for sure. I don't buy that people are just trying to trump this up to get at Athens because they've been drinking so much haterade. Doesn't make sense.

I missed the turning point as well, but I trust MK and Archon enough to believe they had a good reason to publicly support Athens. As for an attack on NSO, I'd hope not because that would also start quite the bloc conflict...

EDIT: For vanity! For Ragashingo!

Thanks.

Edited November 15, 2009 by Ragashingo

[Lincongrad]

MK is defending their allies. That, at least, should not be criticized, even if the methods and the allies themselves are condemned.

[Pablo Monkey]

The question was laughed off by Archon, but I would like to see it answered. How is Archon going to change the Athenian policy of tech raiding without infringing on their sovereignty. I mean if every time your ally does something wrong you come over and tell them that they must change something, it seems like they are not your ally but your puppet. Not too many alliances would put up with that.

[Ragashingo]

The question was laughed off by Archon, but I would like to see it answered. How is Archon going to change the Athenian policy of tech raiding without infringing on their sovereignty. I mean if every time your ally does something wrong you come over and tell them that they must change something, it seems like they are not your ally but your puppet. Not too many alliances would put up with that.

One answer would be to stop being their allies if they don't comply. Man you guys are all asking easy questions tonight...

[Kevanovia]

Hurrr, let's make this into an ODN thread. And you don't get to decide what we do in "hypotetic" wars, thank you very much.

Sunstar made a post making it seem like ODN will fight whoever fights Athens and people are responding to it. Other people didn't make this about the ODN....ODN made it about the ODN.

[Detlev]

From the Desk of the King

It has been coming to my attention that there are alliances out there who are licking their chops at the prospect of bringing war to the doorstep of Athens in response to the de-facto-pseudo-almost-war-tech-raid-cluster****-thing, so I'm going to just lay this out straight and plain.

Don't. ****. With. Us.

Has Athens screwed up rather badly? Clearly, that goes beyond doubt. But have they been working to make amends? Oh yes. I'm sure most of you haven't noticed, given that you're busy getting hot and sweaty at the prospect of destroying them instead of, you know, showing concern for the wronged party or something. Alliances make mistakes. The Mushroom Kingdom is not going to abandon Athens for this mistake. We will work with them to correct it, and to address the issues that lead to the mistake.

Do. Not. Test. Us. If you come for Athens, you will have to go through us. Quite frankly I don't care who stands next to us, if anyone. Trust me, we're used to it. We're not strangers to facing off against incredible odds. If you bring war to Athens, you will find us waiting for you. We do not leave our allies behind. Especially not to some opportunistic, bloodthirsty hounds.

Signed this Fourteenth Day of November, 2009

Archon

King of the Mushroom Kingdom

Say word, son.

MK don't go out like no punk [female dogs].

*pop* *pop* *pop*

[delendum]

The question was laughed off by Archon, but I would like to see it answered. How is Archon going to change the Athenian policy of tech raiding without infringing on their sovereignty. I mean if every time your ally does something wrong you come over and tell them that they must change something, it seems like they are not your ally but your puppet. Not too many alliances would put up with that.

When was it ever implied that Archon would try to change any policy belonging to Athens? Were you in their shoes, wouldn't you change your own policy after causing a beautiful mess such as this one? Don't tell me you'd just stubbornly hold on to it to the point where your allies would have to smack you over the head with it. It's called "learning from your mistakes" - if we didn't think Athens could do it, we wouldn't be by their side right now.

[Dajobo]

Wow I gave up trying to read all the stuff here but I totally get what MK were saying and I salute Archon for his stance.

This is exactly why we treatied MK!

There is a huge difference between supporting an ally and condoning their actions. To suggest MK is encroaching on Athens sovereignty by offering support and advice is crazy stuff. Indeed in any good bloc that's exactly what you do, support, advise and work together to resolve both the situation and the underlying things that caused it.

o/ Archon

[Tygaland]

The question was laughed off by Archon, but I would like to see it answered. How is Archon going to change the Athenian policy of tech raiding without infringing on their sovereignty. I mean if every time your ally does something wrong you come over and tell them that they must change something, it seems like they are not your ally but your puppet. Not too many alliances would put up with that.

I don't think pointing out errors made by allies in private is wrong at all. As an alliance holding treaties with other alliances your actions affect your allies and therefore your alliance's policies should take this into consideration. It doesn't make any of the alliances a puppet, it shows that the alliance that you are allied with cares enough about your alliance to work with you to resolve issues and ensure they do not happen again.

If you go out to a bar with a friend who decided one night to pick a fight with someone in the bar for no reason do you pull them aside and tell them to knock it off and try and smooth things over with the person your friend attempted to pick a fight with or do you leave him to get his head kicked in? If you do the former and he agrees to not do it again then does that make him a puppet or does it make him someone who took good advice onboard and learned from his mistake? If you do the latter then what kind of a friend are you?

[Neo Uruk]

The question was laughed off by Archon, but I would like to see it answered. How is Archon going to change the Athenian policy of tech raiding without infringing on their sovereignty. I mean if every time your ally does something wrong you come over and tell them that they must change something, it seems like they are not your ally but your puppet. Not too many alliances would put up with that.

Because somebody said Archon would change it? I'm fairly sure Londo has said that this kind of practice wouldn't take place in Athens again.

[lebubu]

Heh, some people just need to be reminded.

[Xiphosis]

Archon sums my thoughts up well.

[Irish Wolf]

BAPS would disagree.

Nah, I'm pretty sure our newer members wouldn't...

[Ragashingo]

If you go out to a bar with a friend who decided one night to pick a fight with someone in the bar for no reason do you pull them aside and tell them to knock it off and try and smooth things over with the person your friend attempted to pick a fight with or do you leave him to get his head kicked in? If you do the former and he agrees to not do it again then does that make him a puppet or does it make him someone who took good advice onboard and learned from his mistake? If you do the latter then what kind of a friend are you?

I'm sorry, "yawr-suh-peer-ee-er" but I'm afraid I'm gonna have to fine you 15 yards for an example length violation.

[Pablo Monkey]

I don't think pointing out errors made by allies in private is wrong at all. As an alliance holding treaties with other alliances your actions affect your allies and therefore your alliance's policies should take this into consideration. It doesn't make any of the alliances a puppet, it shows that the alliance that you are allied with cares enough about your alliance to work with you to resolve issues and ensure they do not happen again.

If you go out to a bar with a friend who decided one night to pick a fight with someone in the bar for no reason do you pull them aside and tell them to knock it off and try and smooth things over with the person your friend attempted to pick a fight with or do you leave him to get his head kicked in? If you do the former and he agrees to not do it again then does that make him a puppet or does it make him someone who took good advice onboard and learned from his mistake? If you do the latter then what kind of a friend are you?

The bar fight analogy does not fit. A better analogy is: your friend beats the crap out of some smaller kid. The rest of the neighbor hood says they think it is wrong and come to beat him up. Then you tell everyone that he is your friend and will not let him get beat up and be punished. You also tell everyone that your friend wont do it again cause you are going to make him stop.

Archon can't make Athens stop doing anything, and he said no matter what they do/did he will defend them. This is a bully beating up a small alliance and (theoretically) being called out for it and someone else saying no matter what they do/did we will defend it. If you have to tell your allies to stop putting you in this position then something is wrong.

Edited November 15, 2009 by Killer Monkey land

[Ragashingo]

TH3e bar fight analogy does not fit. A better analogy is: your friend beats the crap out of some smaller kid. The rest of the neighbor hood says they think it is wrong and come to beat him up. Then you tell everyone that he is your friend and will not let him get beat up and be punished. You also tell everyone that your friend wont do it again cause you are going to make him stop.

You missed a very very important part. Both Londo and Archon have said that they will make what was done right. Thats far different than just telling people you'll make your friend stop. Thats your friend admitting that he was wrong and he wants to fix it.

Archon can't make Athens stop doing anything, and he said no matter what they do/did he will defend them. This is a bully beating up a small alliance and (theoretically) being called out for it and someone else saying no matter what they do/did we will defend it. If you have to tell your allies to stop putting you in this position then something is wrong.

He is defending them this time, and I'm sure a large part of the reason in this is that Londo and Athens have seen the error of their ways and plan to fix their mistakes. I have no doubt at all that MK would be posting a cancellation notice if Athens tried this again. Do you?