Arcturus Jefferson Posted October 5, 2009 Report Share Posted October 5, 2009 I'm contemplating sending Archon an anonymous email about how overrated I was (both at the FCC and Fark) to build up a reputation of at least once being rated well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mongol-Swedes Posted October 5, 2009 Report Share Posted October 5, 2009 lolcommie.I think the best alliances are the ones that have members that will step up when faced with adversity. Going waaaaaay back, when \m/ had quite a few of it's prominent members removed from the Cyberverse, it basically collapsed. The mark of a great alliance? The exact opposite. So where is \m/ these days? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bordiga Posted October 5, 2009 Report Share Posted October 5, 2009 So where is \m/ these days? LSF's government is overrated. Though realistically Mongol, I don't see why egalitarian alliances can't have central figures. In fact, I'm pretty damn sure they do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homura Posted October 5, 2009 Report Share Posted October 5, 2009 I don't know what made Archon think this topic was going to garner any serious replies. Personally, I don't have the information to speak much of other alliances (beyond the New Pacific Order), and find the performance of the current Polar government to be very satisfactory and quite capable. Well, I blame RandomInterrupt for everything like all of us in Polaris, but otherwise... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fallen Fool Posted October 5, 2009 Report Share Posted October 5, 2009 (edited) I think this is an echo of earlier sentiment, but most successful and/or dynamic alliance leaders (all Polar Emperors, all Pacific Empeors, Hoo, Archon, Crymson, Syzgzy etc. etc.) are in fact overrated. That's not to say that they're incompetent; far from it. Instead it's a recognition that they all tend to build up larger-then-life reputations which, more often then not, far exceed their actual ability. As for who would take the cake for "most overrated", I guess I'll throw that towards Dilber and Philosopher. When I was growing up (figuratively) in Polar both had reputations as diplomatic gods who single-handily won GWII and GWIII. Since then I've come into contact with a lot of different perspectives concerning why WUT was formed and was successful, which offer a lot more compelling rationale then "Dilber/Philo FORESAW the FUTURE because they're that AWESOME" or whatever and I have had a front row seat to some of their more compelling failures of recent times. So yeah, shine has worn off and I don't understand why people still get all starry-eyed whenever their mentioned. Edited October 5, 2009 by Fallen_Fool Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
potato Posted October 5, 2009 Report Share Posted October 5, 2009 A picture is worth 1000 words...or one Frenchman. It's hard to actually label someone as overrated, because odds are if I've heard enough about you to form an opinion, you must have either done something right or something very very wrong. What did I do wrong? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpiderJerusalem Posted October 5, 2009 Report Share Posted October 5, 2009 What did I do wrong? Well.. I can't seem to find anything you did wrong. So, you don't belong in this thread Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildThing Posted October 5, 2009 Report Share Posted October 5, 2009 (edited) Ivan Moldavi. Van Hoo. AirMe. 'Sam'. AlmightyGrub. All people that are certainly capable to some degree, but seriously overrated in my opinion (I'm sure I've forgotten many hundreds more of you who are also overrated). In a different category though, who certainly don't deserve to reach the top line like those dudes, because of complete incompetence as well as overratedness. TheAUT. banned member. Tela. TheBigBad. I might edit this post later to add more people as I remember them. Edited October 5, 2009 by WildThing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mussolandia Posted October 5, 2009 Report Share Posted October 5, 2009 Mentioning Mogar in a post with the ones on your first line should be forbidden. He was famous because he produced massive amounts of worthless posts. I don't think anyone ever though otherwise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingzog Posted October 5, 2009 Report Share Posted October 5, 2009 Me. Seriously....me. I've had a lot of compliments thrown my way, when all I've done is been myself. I see nothing extraordinary in that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
potato Posted October 5, 2009 Report Share Posted October 5, 2009 Mentioning Mogar in a post with the ones on your first line should be forbidden. He was famous because he produced massive amounts of worthless posts. I don't think anyone ever though otherwise. People actually did. That's the worst part of it, imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aeternalis Posted October 5, 2009 Report Share Posted October 5, 2009 ivan moldavi. He's not a bad leader by any means, inf act, he's probably one of the best ones on CN. Unfortunately, people elevate him to a god like status in CN, which makes him overrated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vladimir Posted October 5, 2009 Report Share Posted October 5, 2009 People actually did. That's the worst part of it, imo. The OWF really has no means of properly judging value because it (as an abstract body) has extraordinarily narrow access to information. Watching people rise and fall over the years, it is difficult to avoid the conclusion that one's 'rating' in the CN community derives primarily from how much one talks about oneself on the OWF. This could result in one being under-rated, over-rated or rated just right, but such tends to be coincidental. It is through this mechanism that people who have done nothing come to be regarded as great historical players or experts in some field or other (simply by asserting repeatedly over time in various ways that they are) while others who have done much are quickly forgotten (of which I'm sure everyone in an alliance knows a few). Of course, there are other very important factors to be considered: political affiliation (and the propaganda associated with it), political position (and the level of attention one gets as a result), personal relationships with influential people (whether friendly or hostile), and so forth. But while these nudge the line in certain directions, vocal arrogance is the driving force behind it. So if you want to become horrendously overrated, get to work! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voodoo Nova Posted October 5, 2009 Report Share Posted October 5, 2009 (edited) In that case, It's been said that Ivan's been rather inactive as far as Monarch's go since his return to CN and founding of NSO. If that were true, I wouldn't really call that a quality that is very constructive for his alliance. Any NSO member is welcome to refute my statement. Internally, he is a fairly active person. Overrated is hard to determine, because it usually is all a matter of opinion based off of individual experiences with that person. For me, any one leader that takes credit for the work of the entire government can be, and usually is, overrated even if they have the ideas and motivation. Then again, you have some leaders that still do the recruiting, tech deal set up and other various forms of "grunt work" while other leaders don't do those activities for one reason or another. So like I said, it is hard to determine who would qualify as an overrated leader based off of a single individual experience or second hand information of their actions. Edited October 5, 2009 by Voodoo Nova Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alfred von Tirpitz Posted October 5, 2009 Report Share Posted October 5, 2009 No such thing as over-rated or under-rated leadership. Those that take on the mantle of leading, already do something more than they need to, make the efforts needed, to the best of their abilities, and if on top of all that they do not achieve what is commonly thought to be the goal, well then, well played. I am un-rated, and if were rated at all it would be over-rated by all means. That however does not detract from what i get out of being one of the people working to make our alliance. Also, as someone said earlier, i think it was the Eperor, the Alliance is more due to the lower/middle government anyways. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D34th Posted October 5, 2009 Report Share Posted October 5, 2009 Tyga, he is n00b. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alfred von Tirpitz Posted October 5, 2009 Report Share Posted October 5, 2009 Tyga, he is n00b. Is this the same as Tygaland the Tewwible from Jack Diorno's Hystori of Sybernatuns episode 3? The guy with the nook that was heard round the world? Far from n00b i would say. Yo Gabba Gabba!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duncan King Posted October 5, 2009 Report Share Posted October 5, 2009 I'd actually agree with those that listed Van Hoo. He had near hero worship status for a while but in dealings with him, especially during the period where MK and Rok weren't getting along, I was underwhelmed. He also got a lot of credit for growing Rok, but that credit always discounted the fact that the alliance grew by mergers, not actual nation building. To me, there's a difference between capturing and importing someone else's alliance growth and actually building it yourself. Growing through mergers has always seemed to me to be the easy way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OsRavan Posted October 5, 2009 Report Share Posted October 5, 2009 Heh... As I read this thread the first thing to pop into my mind is I have to say I tend to think most people who say "i'm overrated... I in fact suck!" are in fact overrating themselves as much as people who go "I'm not an overrated leader, I'm great!". ::amused:: i don't know... not always.... but often.... I've found there to be a sense of reverse ego in those statements. I'm not referring to anyone in this thread, as some of the posts here had a joking sense to them and I in fact dont know any of you. But it is something i've noticed. Often the people who are the most overrated or overrate themselves are the ones who modestly go "Ohh! I'm sooo overrated!" with a sort of smile and a laugh. As in, if they come out and say they are a horrible leader you sometimes get this sense that deep down they in fact think of themselves as a TERRIFIC leader and are pandering to you. I just wondered if I was alone in sometimes getting that sense? That the overly modest people taking fun jabs at themselves are sometimes the ones with the largest egos? Anyway some more specific thoughts on the topic. I do think when rating "great leaders" being popular in and of itself is not enough. Its not enough to inspire other people to work hard for you either. To me its about results. If you inspire people but your whole ship goes down in glorious flames you yourself were not a great leader. ((To take a real world example. If you think bush was a poor leader (just saying if.) He still inspired millions of people many of whom were willing to work long hours for his vision. The same is true of almost any "bad" leader.)) So to me, I tend to judge by results. And in CN I see two broad categories of results. One is internally: Has the leader tightened up internal problems? Removed drama? Created a fun enjoyable enviornment that people are eager to take part in? The second is externally. Has the alliance's "numbers' grown? Are we stronger in a game sense compared to other alliances? Are our FA strong? Have we come out on top of our wars? Is our reputation largely positive? Those are the sort of things imo you judge a leader on. And some leaders can be good at some of those things poor at others. Most leaders in fact have strengths and weaknesses.... you would have to be an AMAZING leader to be able to do all of those things. Your popularity doesn't matter. You can be a great leader and be overrated or a horrible leader and be underrated. What matters I guess is more concrete accomplishments as near as we can measure them. The end results are imo what matters. As to the cult of leadership thing. Thats just a human nature thing for almost any sort of leadership over large numbers of people. If you have success in some way you will start to have people who think of you as larger than life. ((Hell as an example have you ever seen a movie of some 'famous' person where they didnt come off as more than merely human in some way?)). So I actually dont think just because some idiots think you are a "god" that you are automatically an overrated leader. Obviously you are not in fact a CN god ::grins::. But you CAN be a very effective leader. Theres obviously no way to have a truly objective study of this. But if you want to atleast attempt that what you need to do is have a set of criteria for what makes a good leader in CN. Achievements internally and externally that are the signs of firm leadership. Than go down the lists of leaders and see how many each of them have or dont have. Still subjective but at least than there some common ground to it. Not to take the thread off on a tangent but I would kind of want to see some of the people in this thread including archon give us that list..... the list of signs that you ARE a good leader for CN. And once we have some semblance of that list its easier to see and to debate who meets those benchmarks. ::wry shrug;: i wrote this like a few minutes after I rolled out of bed this morning so hopefully it actually makes some coherent sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D34th Posted October 5, 2009 Report Share Posted October 5, 2009 Is this the same as Tygaland the Tewwible from Jack Diorno's Hystori of Sybernatuns episode 3? The guy with the nook that was heard round the world? Far from n00b i would say. Yo Gabba Gabba!!! Yes, is him. I have proofs that he is noob, look that picture: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AirMe Posted October 5, 2009 Report Share Posted October 5, 2009 (edited) Ivan Moldavi. Van Hoo. AirMe. 'Sam'. AlmightyGrub.All people that are certainly capable to some degree, but seriously overrated in my opinion (I'm sure I've forgotten many hundreds more of you who are also overrated). In a different category though, who certainly don't deserve to reach the top line like those dudes, because of complete incompetence as well as overratedness. TheAUT. Mogar. Tela. I might edit this post later to add more people as I remember them. I can get behind Hoo and Sam.....even myself at certain points in time....but if there is anyone in this game who is under rated...it's Grub. The man has worked his way up from the bottom to the man on point in 2 Sanctioned alliances. He has stared down the barrel of certain doom and survived. If that proves anything is that he is far from over rated. If there is one leader in this game that has earned a free pass from this thread it is Grub. Edited October 5, 2009 by AirMe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoffron X Posted October 5, 2009 Report Share Posted October 5, 2009 I'll go out on a limb and say Dilber in the last year or so. He has a reputation for excellent diplomacy but the NPO's FA actions during the Karma war build-up and the weeks/months before it were quite incompetent, notably by not doing much to properly maintain their relationships, and he in his position is at least partially responsible for that. That's probably because Dilber is in China. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CRexx Posted October 5, 2009 Report Share Posted October 5, 2009 I'm just gonna go ahead and make space in my trophy case for this one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Diorno Posted October 5, 2009 Report Share Posted October 5, 2009 I'm just gonna go ahead and make space in my trophy case for this one. Who are you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CRexx Posted October 5, 2009 Report Share Posted October 5, 2009 Who are you? Pop into #paradox and ask around. I'm sure you'll get enough to sate the drama llama for a day. (Ex-GC and Ex-GH of TOP, long story short, what the hell was I and the voters of TOP thinking?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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