Overrated Alliance Government

[Ejayrazz]

If half the Planet does not hate you then you are doing nothing.

I will have to agree with Delta, however Delta and Big_z were at one point neck to neck with my former alliance, yet our respect still remains because of how each representative presented their case (Such as their reasonings behind their distaste in my former beloved alliance which were logical and understanding)

Some you can respectfully disagree with while others go to the next level and cause for that hatred based upon how they present themselves rather than their thoughts or decisions.

Edited October 6, 2009 by Ejayrazz

[The Big Bad]

If half he planet hates you and you haven't done anything worthy of balancing that, then you'd have been better off not doing anything.

That would make things dreadfully boring.

[Delta1212]

That would make things dreadfully boring.

A world without RyanGDI would be less entertaining, but that doesn't mean emulating him is a good idea.

[WalkerNinja]

Personally? I think most of the legendary leaders in Cyber Nations are overrated. This includes leadership from both alliances I like and dislike, including Frostbite and Citadel (hello Crymson) and all these other blocs. Being famous does not equal being an excellent leader... indeed, nor does charisma necessarily have much to do with it.

I agree. Crymson is overrated. Clearly leading an alliance full of winners like us is a cake walk. It's like teaching Steve McQueen to be cool.

[/sarcasm]

Edited October 6, 2009 by WalkerNinja

[Sandwich Controversy]

Slayer's brilliance at the realpolitik aspect of the planet is a trait I respected and looked on with awe.

It's true, he proved he was genius at this. Time and time again.

[WildThing]

This happens when you read OWF too much.

*me reads Crymson post

See WildThing? Isn't me, is you

I misread, then.

I assure you, it's you. Feel free to just reply to this post with another Picard if you wish.

Slayer's brilliance at the realpolitik aspect of the planet is a trait I respected and looked on with awe. He could get under skins on the OWF and he did it with panache. Overrated? Hardly. He earned his place as one of The Greats.

Somehow, I don't think people realize that angering people is actually the opposite of realpolitik. The guiding tenet is that the ends justify the means, but if the ends are that half the planet hates you, then you aren't really doing so well.

Couldn't have said it better. Slayer may have been an alright troll in the same sense that BnT, Branimir and TBB were, by frustrating people so much with their stupidity. But alliances have positions for people like that, and while BnT, Branimir and TBB fitted their position, Slayer was a leader.. He went from basically nothing before UJW to hated but luckily protected after it. There is nothing to brag about in Slayer's career. And I personally prefer trolls like JT, Sponge and most of MK as opposed to the, 'I will never concede defeat in an argument whether I'm losing it or not and I'm just going to continue to post smiley-faces and act like I'm winning' style of troll.

[Duncan King]

Well having served under VanHoo from the time Rok was still a relatively small alliance, I can't argue that Rok's growth was basically "The Easy Way" as you put it. Also having witnessed the quick growth of Nemesis, I can't argue that he was worshiped as a hero. I can however tell you that in his prime as a leader, he was very accessible, fair minded, and considerate. So from the outside looking in, I can see how people would have thought of him as overrated, but internally, he was an excellent leader. I guess the only way I can contradict you is to point out that he was relatively unknown when Rok first formed, and the majority of the government and vocal members in the alliance had been around from the early days, so I believe that says quite a bit about his leadership.

I really liked him before the MK-Rok split, but in trying to understand the dispute, I found that the continuing of the dispute was primarily due to Van Hoo's ego and hurt feelings. This fact seriously disappointed me and tarnished my view of him. I freely admit I hold grudges against certain people and alliances, but I deal with those by simply avoiding them. I don't use my dislike as an excuse to isolate or destroy anyone who hasn't done anything horrible and CB worthy to me or my alliance.

I'd also nominate Xiphosis. He's a nice guy to talk to, but holds grudges way more than he should and can be vindictive. KM's PZI was basically due to Xiph's feelings being hurt over him being ZIed during the Unjust War. He's also refused to compromise on other situations as well due to a desire to protect his reputation and make those who he feels did him wrong pay. IMO, anyone who is so full of themselves that they would issue a PZI or an EZI of another player is way too confident of his/her own worth and thus overrated. There are some high crimes that a prolonged ZI is merited, like vandalizing forums, repeated rogue attacks, or spying, but most of the reasons that these PZIs and EZIs have been handed out for are really pathetic. Xiph's obviously not the only one who's ever issued one of these and I feel kind of bad singling him out, but he's an example that sticks out in my mind as my tango with him cost me 2000 tech.

Probably the most overrated alliance leader that I have ever dealt with was Tela. I only dealt with her once and I was shocked at how assertive and unreasonable she was. She was so concerned with keeping her reputation as tough that she was totally unwilling to compromise, even when we'd made it clear that the issue that she was approaching us about was basically bogus.

And before the haters come in, I have been overrated at times. During my NATO years when I was a top delegate in The Continuum, I was extremely visible and even had people who could be described as groupies. I got caught up in that power and used it push other alliances around. Looking back now, I'm not proud of most of what I did during that time, and I'm much happier now, being basically irrelevant.

Edited October 6, 2009 by Duncan King

[Nintenderek]

Slayer's brilliance at the realpolitik aspect of the planet is a trait I respected and looked on with awe. He could get under skins on the OWF and he did it with panache. Overrated? Hardly. He earned his place as one of The Greats.

I'm not sure what game you play, but in my book, that's a bad thing.

If half the Planet does not hate you then you are doing nothing.

If half the planet hates you, well good luck surviving much longer.

Probably the most overrated alliance leader that I have ever dealt with was Tela. I only dealt with her once and I was shocked at how assertive and unreasonable she was. She was so concerned with keeping her reputation as tough that she was totally unwilling to compromise, even when we'd made it clear that the issue that she was approaching us about was basically bogus.

I'm going to have to agree with this. As far as over rated goes, I'm going to have to say either Tela or Hoo. Tela for the obvious reasons stated here. She was only out for her own wants and needs, and didn't care about anybody else except for her and NPO.

Hoo, for different reasons. Sure, he was a nice guy and all, but he wasn't the excellent alliance genius everyone seemed to make him out to be. Like, I never personally worked with him, but from what I know about him, he just doesn't seem to be as good of a leader as everyone says he is.

[AlmightyGrub]

The essential thing to being rated in the first place is that people have to actually have heard of you. I doubt most of the people who are being nominated as ''overrated'' really gave a toss about being rated in the first place and that many of the people who call them overrated even rate at all.

@ WildThing, I live under a bridge, I eat live goats and I am a troll. However I never troll ramdomly or without a purpose. When tasked to do so by my former Emperor I would embrace the concept wholeheartedly. I am not ashamed of it, I actually thought I was pretty good at it sometimes. I seldom venture out these days, more important roles for me to play I think

Polaris has had some success, it is everything to do with a well disciplined alliance who follow a strong leadership team and the emphasis is on team. I direct, others do. If that makes overrated, I can deal with it, I exist only to serve my alliance, not win popularity contests. Polaris will continue to be successful if and when I retire because of the legacy of all its leadership good and bad. To claim one person has done things without acknowledging the support network he has is folly, just as it is to ignore that good leaders develop good support networks.

[WildThing]

I pretty much agree with that assessment of everyone Duncan, however I don't think Xiph is over-rated. Sure he holds grudges and all that jazz, but that's different, and kinda cool. Grudges make this game interesting. If anything I'd say Xiph was under-rated just because everyone seems to think he's some manic psycho or something and not capable of much at all..

Edit:

@ WildThing, I live under a bridge, I eat live goats and I am a troll. However I never troll ramdomly or without a purpose. When tasked to do so by my former Emperor I would embrace the concept wholeheartedly. I am not ashamed of it, I actually thought I was pretty good at it sometimes. I seldom venture out these days, more important roles for me to play I think

Polaris has had some success, it is everything to do with a well disciplined alliance who follow a strong leadership team and the emphasis is on team. I direct, others do. If that makes overrated, I can deal with it, I exist only to serve my alliance, not win popularity contests. Polaris will continue to be successful if and when I retire because of the legacy of all its leadership good and bad. To claim one person has done things without acknowledging the support network he has is folly, just as it is to ignore that good leaders develop good support networks.

Well said, one thing all the 'greats' (people on the fantasy lists) have in common, is being good with words and I certainly won't deny you that. Nor will I deny that you are a good troll when you want to be. I actually admired it at the time, I really enjoyed the Polaris troll squad hitting up Gremlins all the time. It was amusing, and generally well done. But seeing as it was a Citadel fire-team that eventually took you guys down, I can't help but think that while the troll squad was probably successful at what it did, Sponge going inactive at around the time he needed to capitalize on the tensions you'd created meant that in the end, you helped bring Polaris down.

Anyway.. I have actually changed my mind over the last few pages of this thread about you. And while I still want to see you do something really impressive like co-ordinate a war to exact revenge on Pacifica or TOP/Gremlins or something to that extent, I'll accept that you've done pretty well with Polaris thus far.

Edited October 6, 2009 by WildThing

[Duncan King]

I pretty much agree with that assessment of everyone Duncan, however I don't think Xiph is over-rated. Sure he holds grudges and all that jazz, but that's different, and kinda cool. Grudges make this game interesting. If anything I'd say Xiph was under-rated just because everyone seems to think he's some manic psycho or something and not capable of much at all..

I don't see that as a positive at all. To me, Xiph is an extremely capable leader with a very serious flaw, mainly holding grudges and refusing to compromise because of them. I've always thought that an important part of true leadership and maturity is being willing to compromise.

[D34th]

I assure you, it's you. Feel free to just reply to this post with another Picard if you wish.

Ok it's me, but misread or not my point still, you can't say that Grub was one of the reasons of SPW unless you say that all polar members(those who trolled) specifically are reasons of SPW. Believe me with trolling or not Polar would be rolled anyway.

And for you:

Edited October 6, 2009 by D34th

[WildThing]

I don't see that as a positive at all. To me, Xiph is an extremely capable leader with a very serious flaw, mainly holding grudges and refusing to compromise because of them. I've always thought that an important part of true leadership and maturity is being willing to compromise.

Oh it's probably not a positive thing as far as leadership qualities go, I just said it was cool cause it generates drama which I classify as generally a good thing watching from over behind my lemonade stand. However, I don't think he's rated highly enough to be over-rated..

Ok it's me, but misread or not my point still, you can't say that Grub was one of the reasons of SPW unless you say that all polar members(those who trolled) specifically are reasons of SPW. Believe me with trolling or not Polar would be rolled anyway.

And for you:

I agree.. The whole Polar troll squad was a reason for SPW.

[TheEraser]

It's pretty hard to just procure 'evidence' of how someone is over-rated.. It's a completely subjective argument. I made as much of a case as I could and had time to, and it was simply ignored by elborrador at the same time he asks someone to try and put a case together... I don't really want to start a big argument about it all, but I just figured I'd point it out to him. And I think you're letting your personal emotions get in the way of rationality (which by the way is why I mentioned you as over-rated too, as far as FA with people you like goes, you're great.. But you're terrible at arguing especially with people you don't like) because my post definitely didn't only mention posting style and I know you really like Grub.

i didn't ignore it, i missed it in its entirety

I'll only briefly touch the issue now b/c of what others have said, but Trolling does not make him overrated, at least not his leadership ability. He has always proven himself to have a cool head when it matters most and that is a character that is nto found in every other "overrated" player around. To call Grub Overrated is, while entirely based in opinion, a distorted perspective of how hard he was worked over the years.

I really liked him before the MK-Rok split, but in trying to understand the dispute, I found that the continuing of the dispute was primarily due to Van Hoo's ego and hurt feelings. This fact seriously disappointed me and tarnished my view of him. I freely admit I hold grudges against certain people and alliances, but I deal with those by simply avoiding them. I don't use my dislike as an excuse to isolate or destroy anyone who hasn't done anything horrible and CB worthy to me or my alliance.

I'd also nominate Xiphosis. He's a nice guy to talk to, but holds grudges way more than he should and can be vindictive. KM's PZI was basically due to Xiph's feelings being hurt over him being ZIed during the Unjust War. He's also refused to compromise on other situations as well due to a desire to protect his reputation and make those who he feels did him wrong pay. IMO, anyone who is so full of themselves that they would issue a PZI or an EZI of another player is way too confident of his/her own worth and thus overrated. There are some high crimes that a prolonged ZI is merited, like vandalizing forums, repeated rogue attacks, or spying, but most of the reasons that these PZIs and EZIs have been handed out for are really pathetic. Xiph's obviously not the only one who's ever issued one of these and I feel kind of bad singling him out, but he's an example that sticks out in my mind as my tango with him cost me 2000 tech.

Probably the most overrated alliance leader that I have ever dealt with was Tela. I only dealt with her once and I was shocked at how assertive and unreasonable she was. She was so concerned with keeping her reputation as tough that she was totally unwilling to compromise, even when we'd made it clear that the issue that she was approaching us about was basically bogus.

And before the haters come in, I have been overrated at times. During my NATO years when I was a top delegate in The Continuum, I was extremely visible and even had people who could be described as groupies. I got caught up in that power and used it push other alliances around. Looking back now, I'm not proud of most of what I did during that time, and I'm much happier now, being basically irrelevant.

you're not irrelevant DK While i don't neccessarigly like Zenith's political alignment, you are a more than capable figure head for the alliance.

[D34th]

Oh it's probably not a positive thing as far as leadership qualities go, I just said it was cool cause it generates drama which I classify as generally a good thing watching from over behind my lemonade stand. However, I don't think he's rated highly enough to be over-rated..

I agree.. The whole Polar troll squad was a reason for SPW.

You agree with me? There goes my fun

[Anu Drake]

And before the haters come in, I have been overrated at times. During my NATO years when I was a top delegate in The Continuum, I was extremely visible and even had people who could be described as groupies. I got caught up in that power and used it push other alliances around. Looking back now, I'm not proud of most of what I did during that time, and I'm much happier now, being basically irrelevant.

Ditto. Except you shouldn't feel a lack of pride for your actions, you know I was pushing you to do most of the dirty work.

Historically, I have to go with Moo and Dilber on this one, especially during the last 6 months of tC. OOC they are both cool as hell, but they were both fiddling while we burned, and nothing could make that apparent.

[TheEraser]

I agree.. The whole Polar troll squad was a reason for SPW.

personally, i blame random

To see Crymson publicly applaud Grubs leadership is a testament, i think, to how far things have progressed in the past year.

[CptGodzilla]

Oh there's another one

AnuDrake

[D34th]

personally, i blame random

It's clearly Fallen's Fault.

[Anu Drake]

Oh there's another one

AnuDrake

Thanks. Except I'm not an alliance leader and I don't think anyone would rate me very highly in the first place. I knew when to quit when RL took over.

[Fallen Fool]

The whole Polar tactical posting squad was a reason for SPW.

I miss tactically posting. So very few opportunities or reasons to do it anymore...

[RandomInterrupt]

Electron Sponge is overrated. He was first relying on the NPO basically. Then, when NpO was more independent, he was defeated and ousted for his behavior.

I don't exactly disagree with you here, but I thought it was a hilarious timeline. You're missing like 18 months in your timeline there. It goes more like: Polar relied on the NPO. Electron Sponge took over in the middle of GW1. He then took Polar from 80 or so members in anarchy to over 600 members and near the top of the sanctioned alliance list with the NPO acting largely to our detriment, not our support. Then yes he did get ousted for his behavior. But there was over 18 months of great progress, expansion, military and economic success, and basically creating the foundation of what Polar is today.

Anyway, carry on with the thread I just thought your timeline had a little hole in the middle there.

[Pingu]

I don't exactly disagree with you here, but I thought it was a hilarious timeline. You're missing like 18 months in your timeline there. It goes more like: Polar relied on the NPO. Electron Sponge took over in the middle of GW1. He then took Polar from 80 or so members in anarchy to over 600 members and near the top of the sanctioned alliance list with the NPO acting largely to our detriment, not our support. Then yes he did get ousted for his behavior. But there was over 18 months of great progress, expansion, military and economic success, and basically creating the foundation of what Polar is today.

Anyway, carry on with the thread I just thought your timeline had a little hole in the middle there.

There seems to be a lot of confidently-expressed judgment in this discussion by those without Random's grasp of the history - of Sponge or many of the others under discussion. Everyone who has made her or his mark on Planet Bob has been fallible, sometimes spectacularly so. But if we are going to pass judgment, let us do it on the basis of someone's actual record - the whole record. Given how people talk about Sponge these days, I'd have to say he is presently under-rated.

[WildThing]

I miss tactically posting. So very few opportunities or reasons to do it anymore...

So do I... We've lost so many brilliant trolls over the years, and a lot of them have been lost to the woes of alliance leadership, rarely to be seen on the OWF again. Things would be a lot more interesting if we saw more of alliance leaders than we do these days. You know things are good when leaders are openly trolling one another on the OWF... Everything seems to be so hush-hush, 'private channels ftw!' these days. Tragic really.

[RandomInterrupt]

There seems to be a lot of confidently-expressed judgment in this discussion by those without Random's grasp of the history - of Sponge or many of the others under discussion. Everyone who has made her or his mark on Planet Bob has been fallible, sometimes spectacularly so. But if we are going to pass judgment, let us do it on the basis of someone's actual record - the whole record. Given how people talk about Sponge these days, I'd have to say he is presently under-rated.

I miss you, Pingu.