LegendoftheSkies Posted October 1, 2009 Report Share Posted October 1, 2009 How do you know he's ghosting? You can't be sure he's a ghost if AUT can't be sure he's a member. True, but given that Ryan said that he was ghosting before, the logical assumption to make is that he's simply ghosting the AA again. It sounds like he gave Carthage clearance to crush the nation before, so they should just kill him themselves. Carthage, if your goal here is really to protect your alliance, try actually doing that and just roll the offending nation. Don't come on the OWF and make a spectacle out of nothing. If you attack the offender and Ryan intervenes, THAT is when you have an actual CB. That is when you know that he's supporting a nation that attacked you. If you just want to roll TFA, on the other hand, just do it. Don't pretend you have some other motive. Seriously, it's RyanGDI. Most people really won't care too much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerdge Posted October 2, 2009 Report Share Posted October 2, 2009 (edited) An attempt to a tl;dr: Carthage: Emperal Warchest attacks us with the TFA AA. TFA claims he's a ghost, but EW switches AA a couple of times and attacked us again. He is even doing another tech deal! Everything is evidently RyanGDI's fault! All of this makes sense! others: how do you know he's not just ghosting the TFA AA again? The Reccesion: there's this screenshot that shows someone else (!) being accepted in TFA. others: that's not EW. Carthage: but that's one that is attacking another aligned, thus RyanGDI is unreliable. others: you don't have enough evidence, go for a diplomatic solution first. Carthage: our ultimatum is our attempt to do diplomacy. That's how we go about it, when we're feeling nice. others: do you realize that the tech deal proves nothing? Carthage: he has been doing other tech deals before while wearing that AA, thus it's "proved" that he's not ghosting it. others: and the fact that he hasn't a single aid offer with TFA nations? Isn't that relevant? you didn't proved that EW is in TFA. Carthage: maybe but TFA isn't "protecting its AA", thus they're responsible for the ones that ghost them. RyanGDI: EW is not in TFA. others: Carthage, you only wanted to feel like a big man and to bully an unprotected small alliance. My comment: lol"diplomatic"ultimatums. Edited October 2, 2009 by jerdge Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin McDonald Posted October 2, 2009 Report Share Posted October 2, 2009 Go get him, AUT! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Reccesion Posted October 2, 2009 Report Share Posted October 2, 2009 (edited) An attempt to a tl;dr: Carthage: Emperal Warchest attacks us with the TFA AA. TFA claims he's a ghost, but EW switches AA a couple of times and attacked us again. He is even doing another tech deal! Everything is evidently RyanGDI's fault! All of this makes sense! others: how do you know he's not just ghosting the TFA AA again? The Reccesion: there's this screenshot that shows someone else (!) being accepted in TFA. others: that's not EW. Carthage: but that's one that is attacking another aligned, thus RyanGDI is unreliable. others: you don't have enough evidence, go for a diplomatic solution first. Carthage: our ultimatum is our attempt to do diplomacy. That's how we go about it, when we're feeling nice. others: do you realize that the tech deal proves nothing? Carthage: he has been doing other tech deals before while wearing that AA, thus it's "proved" that he's not ghosting it. others: and the fact that he hasn't a single aid offer with TFA nations? Isn't that relevant? you didn't proved that EW is in TFA. Carthage: maybe but TFA isn't "protecting its AA", thus they're responsible for the ones that ghost them. RyanGDI: EW is not in TFA. others: Carthage, you only wanted to feel like a big man and to bully an unprotected small alliance. My comment: lol"diplomatic"ultimatums. I think I deserve 0.01 pointers for trying to be funny. But you pretty much hit the dot on whats been happening. Also it leads up to him accepting a nation that is at war with UPN and Pysho. Edited October 2, 2009 by The Reccesion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Velken Posted October 2, 2009 Report Share Posted October 2, 2009 LoL again more RyanGDI melodrama Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChairmanHal Posted October 2, 2009 Report Share Posted October 2, 2009 True, but given that Ryan said that he was ghosting before, the logical assumption to make is that he's simply ghosting the AA again. It sounds like he gave Carthage clearance to crush the nation before, so they should just kill him themselves. Carthage, if your goal here is really to protect your alliance, try actually doing that and just roll the offending nation. Don't come on the OWF and make a spectacle out of nothing. If you attack the offender and Ryan intervenes, THAT is when you have an actual CB. That is when you know that he's supporting a nation that attacked you. If you just want to roll TFA, on the other hand, just do it. Don't pretend you have some other motive. Seriously, it's RyanGDI. Most people really won't care too much. If you are going to bring common sense to the discussion while I still have popcorn, I'm going to have to insist you leave the room. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jer Posted October 2, 2009 Report Share Posted October 2, 2009 LoL again more RyanGDI melodrama Can't you read? The Aut is the guy making the moronic threats here. Whoops, for a moment there I forgot that LOLRYANGDI'ing is much easier than bothering to read a thread. Never mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The AUT Posted October 2, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 2, 2009 Can't you read? The Aut is the guy making the moronic threats here. Whoops, for a moment there I forgot that LOLRYANGDI'ing is much easier than bothering to read a thread. Never mind. If Ryan can't control his alliance and those who wear his tag, then yes I have umbrage with it and this isn't the first incident. I'm protecting my alliance and if this is the way to get to Ryan, then so be it. He thinks that just because he declares a ghost a ghost he's off the hook while my members suffer the consequences of his mishandling of those who join his alliance. If me protecting my alliance is considered moronic, then just call me a moron. Ryan - I'll get on IRC soon as I get home. Then we'll have a chat. Are you seriously suggesting that at least a part of your reason for going to war is because you want TFA to deal with their ghosts? Do I care about TFA's ghosts? No. When they start causing harm to my alliance while I care? Yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian LaCroix Posted October 2, 2009 Report Share Posted October 2, 2009 Let this be a lesson to everyone, deal with your ghosts now or the AUT will come and get you. Lol, this. It's mildly amusing that you're threatening an alliance with war because they have a ghost that attacked you. Kill the ghost, problem solved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vilien Posted October 2, 2009 Report Share Posted October 2, 2009 Do I care about TFA's ghosts? No. When they start causing harm to my alliance while I care? Yes. So, instead of dealing with the specific ghost you have a problem with, you decide to send an ultimatum to the entire alliance. Makes sense, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanGDI Posted October 2, 2009 Report Share Posted October 2, 2009 (edited) If Ryan can't control his alliance and those who wear his tag, then yes I have umbrage with it and this isn't the first incident. I'm protecting my alliance and if this is the way to get to Ryan, then so be it. He thinks that just because he declares a ghost a ghost he's off the hook while my members suffer the consequences of his mishandling of those who join his alliance. If me protecting my alliance is considered moronic, then just call me a moron. Ryan - I'll get on IRC soon as I get home. Then we'll have a chat. So here, allow me to tl;dr what you think is right here. Our logistics and firepower are spread thin enough as it is. Someone ghosts our alliance affiliation, scams aid and attacks people. You get upset (amongst others), and I follow standard procedures for ghosts (basically a "Hello, either apply to join our alliance (in which we'd require that the nation peaces out of their wars at once, which I had "Control Master" originally do FYI, followed by an explanation over IRC as to what he did wrong) or leave our AA" notice, followed by a warning should he/she ignore the first message, then war if that's ignored). After the final warning, he leaves our AA for "The Independent Alliance". He then goes to ghost our AA yet again and continue on his normal ways. Now, you're threatening us with war just because the guy happens to like our alliance affiliation...which would also decrease our effectiveness to "deal with ghosts", hence contradicting your overall goal here. Now, ask yourself this: would you do this to a major-league alliance? Would you stomp out onto public forums, threatening and demanding that the nation be attacked, or the entire alliance will be harmed? Oh wait...you wouldn't, because you'd get swept away overnight, and the other side wouldn't really care for you due to your lack of respect and outright negligence of diplomacy*. Just take a look at what people are saying AUT. You're doin' it wrong. * - Just to give you an idea, I didn't even know this thread existed until Ferrando pointed it out to me over IRC awhile after it was posted. Edited October 2, 2009 by RyanGDI Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jer Posted October 2, 2009 Report Share Posted October 2, 2009 (edited) If Ryan can't control his alliance and those who wear his tag, then yes I have umbrage with it and this isn't the first incident. I'm protecting my alliance and if this is the way to get to Ryan, then so be it. He thinks that just because he declares a ghost a ghost he's off the hook while my members suffer the consequences of his mishandling of those who join his alliance. If me protecting my alliance is considered moronic, then just call me a moron. I find your policy intriguing. If I show your AA and start nuking TOP nations, can we assume that TOP DoW'ing your pitiful alliance is perfectly fine with you? After all they are only protecting their alliance, and you can't get off the hook by just declaring me a ghost, you know, that is not good enough. Your nations would damn well have to get in the firing line of my nukes because if they don't you are not policing your AA well enough (yes, I am suddenly 100% your responsibility under your rules, whether you like it or not). Edited October 2, 2009 by Aimee Mann Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tygaland Posted October 2, 2009 Report Share Posted October 2, 2009 I think the general way in which ghosts are handled is for whichever alliance the suspected ghost has attacked to contact the alliance to which the suspected ghost is claiming membership to seek confirmation as to whether the nation is a ghost or not. If the nation is a ghost then the alliance the ghost is claiming membership of is not responsible for that ghost's actions and any assistance with military response against the ghost would be optional. The alliance the ghost has attacked are welcome to bomb the ghost back to the stone age. Not that I see any new precedent being set here but Aimee Mann pretty much sums up the farcical results if this type of response to ghost's going rogue on aligned nations becomes the norm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Ozujsko Posted October 2, 2009 Report Share Posted October 2, 2009 If Ryan can't control his alliance and those who wear his tag, then yes I have umbrage with it and this isn't the first incident. I'm protecting my alliance and if this is the way to get to Ryan, then so be it. He thinks that just because he declares a ghost a ghost he's off the hook while my members suffer the consequences of his mishandling of those who join his alliance. I'm not entirely convinced that you know how ghosts work. An alliance is free to declare war upon a ghost with their AA. However, for the victim's alliance to threaten war against the said AA of the ghost is poor reasoning and a weak CB. It sounds like Ryan did the right thing here and let you have at the ghost. You have yet to prove how he is liable for the ghost's actions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The AUT Posted October 2, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 2, 2009 Sorted it out with RyanGDI. Glad we could come to a peaceful resolution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Un4Gvn1 Posted October 2, 2009 Report Share Posted October 2, 2009 .................. <snip>(in which we'd require that the nation peaces out of their wars at once, which I had "Control Master" originally do FYI, followed by an explanation over IRC as to what he did wrong)............ <snip> I appreciate your response but am left wondering ... why Control Master was admitted (however briefly) to your alliance while he was in the wars you'd told him to peace out? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fernando12 Posted October 2, 2009 Report Share Posted October 2, 2009 (edited) I find your policy intriguing. If I show your AA and start nuking TOP nations, can we assume that TOP DoW'ing your pitiful alliance is perfectly fine with you? After all they are only protecting their alliance, and you can't get off the hook by just declaring me a ghost, you know, that is not good enough. Your nations would damn well have to get in the firing line of my nukes because if they don't you are not policing your AA well enough (yes, I am suddenly 100% your responsibility under your rules, whether you like it or not). Exactly I think the general way in which ghosts are handled is for whichever alliance the suspected ghost has attacked to contact the alliance to which the suspected ghost is claiming membership to seek confirmation as to whether the nation is a ghost or not.If the nation is a ghost then the alliance the ghost is claiming membership of is not responsible for that ghost's actions and any assistance with military response against the ghost would be optional. The alliance the ghost has attacked are welcome to bomb the ghost back to the stone age. Not that I see any new precedent being set here but Aimee Mann pretty much sums up the farcical results if this type of response to ghost's going rogue on aligned nations becomes the norm. Exactly I'm not entirely convinced that you know how ghosts work. An alliance is free to declare war upon a ghost with their AA. However, for the victim's alliance to threaten war against the said AA of the ghost is poor reasoning and a weak CB. It sounds like Ryan did the right thing here and let you have at the ghost. You have yet to prove how he is liable for the ghost's actions. Exactly I've been trying to point this out all day but he keeps coming back with the RyanGDI is responsible for his AA and cleaning it up argument. EDIT: Just saw that you guys came to a peaceful solution. Good for both your alliances. Edited October 2, 2009 by Fernando12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanGDI Posted October 2, 2009 Report Share Posted October 2, 2009 Sorted it out with RyanGDI. Glad we could come to a peaceful resolution. Indeed. Although most may say that this move is un-necessary, I'll be assisting Carthage in their goal to disable EW for various reasons: - Carthage is losing a large amount of funds in these battles - I can gain those much-needed funds and use them to grow - Regardless of what happens, I'm never one for holding grudges - EW's pissed me off for the "troubles" he's caused - I've got extra improvements and the like, so easier for me than it is for them - AUT was straight-up over IRC in saying that TFA was not to be attacked - And frankly, I need to get to 1 mil casualties. (Possibly a few other reasons I may not have come up with at the moment, but you get the idea. ) No, I don't believe that it's the ghosted alliance's responsibility to stop their ghosts. I do, however, believe that a good deed should be done whenever one can be done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penkala Posted October 2, 2009 Report Share Posted October 2, 2009 (edited) But it does prove he's using the TFA AA to get those tech deals, I was pointing out the inaccuracy of your above statement. If that's the case, Ryan needs to protect and clean up his AA if it's being used as a means for rogues to gain aid off of. And if he doesn't have the capacity to remove him, or he won't move even if attacked, Ryan's alliance gets rolled? Prove he's a member of their alliance and not just ghosting his AA, or you have no CB and you fail even worse than GDI does in this incident. Edit: congrats, Ryan, you've been surpassed in fail. Jerdge, I like your rundown. Edited October 2, 2009 by Penkala Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stumpy Jung Il Posted October 2, 2009 Report Share Posted October 2, 2009 Two things: 1. You should all be ashamed for taking part in this thread. My brain is bleeding just from reading some of the posts here. 2. If you get attacked by a ghost, the alliance that he is ghosting is not responsible for his actions. For example, asking them to attack the ghost is much like you asking reps for the damages hes done. This is stupid. It is not their fault that some idiot decided to switch to their AA and dick around. If you feel like this particular ghost/rogues actions deserve him getting rolled, you should do it. Expecting other people to do it for you is silly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Panda Posted October 2, 2009 Report Share Posted October 2, 2009 An attempt to a tl;dr: Carthage: Emperal Warchest attacks us with the TFA AA. TFA claims he's a ghost, but EW switches AA a couple of times and attacked us again. He is even doing another tech deal! Everything is evidently RyanGDI's fault! All of this makes sense! others: how do you know he's not just ghosting the TFA AA again? The Reccesion: there's this screenshot that shows someone else (!) being accepted in TFA. others: that's not EW. Carthage: but that's one that is attacking another aligned, thus RyanGDI is unreliable. others: you don't have enough evidence, go for a diplomatic solution first. Carthage: our ultimatum is our attempt to do diplomacy. That's how we go about it, when we're feeling nice. others: do you realize that the tech deal proves nothing? Carthage: he has been doing other tech deals before while wearing that AA, thus it's "proved" that he's not ghosting it. others: and the fact that he hasn't a single aid offer with TFA nations? Isn't that relevant? you didn't proved that EW is in TFA. Carthage: maybe but TFA isn't "protecting its AA", thus they're responsible for the ones that ghost them. RyanGDI: EW is not in TFA. others: Carthage, you only wanted to feel like a big man and to bully an unprotected small alliance. My comment: lol"diplomatic"ultimatums. I think the term is 'aggressive negotiations.' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mathias Posted October 2, 2009 Report Share Posted October 2, 2009 Don't give Ryan the chance to weasel out of it. Destroy him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LegendoftheSkies Posted October 2, 2009 Report Share Posted October 2, 2009 Don't give Ryan the chance to weasel out of it.Destroy him. But sir, that would be immoral Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mathias Posted October 2, 2009 Report Share Posted October 2, 2009 But sir, that would be immoral Quite the opposite. In fact, I would view it as wholeheartedly unscrupulous to do otherwise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coven Posted October 2, 2009 Report Share Posted October 2, 2009 I am very glad to see a peaceful resolution. Congratulations to both AUT and Ryan. Good luck guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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