I hate GGA drama

[kingzog]

I, for one, love GGA drama.

[TehChron]

I'd say this pretty much sums it up for me.

I'm not sure why this discussion even exists.

Thank you God.

And for whomever else said that the only issue argued would be motivations for lies, Thank you also.

Finally, some common sense itt.

[janax]

Since I was expecting all the LOLGGA stuff, the part below is what really stuck out at me...

[23:29] <@Pansy> also DeScepter, you might want to think on how you address your allies

[23:29] <DeScepter> I'm sorry. Did I offend someone?

[23:29] <@Pansy> you seem very sarcastic towards a general concern from your close allies

#01[23:30] <~mhawk> we just havn't met before DeScepter

[23:30] <DeScepter> Oh no, not at all. I apologize if it seems that way.

[23:30] <@Pansy> and to be honest if you spoke to me that way , id have slapped you back down

#01[23:30] <~mhawk> i took the "yes sir" as mocking my question

I'm really glad none of my allies talk down to me in that fashion. I wouldn't put up with that.

[BamaBuc]

Just look at the motives here to see who is lying:

GGA: Throw NPO under the bus, get good PR, show their new independence, and put a stop to the latest GGA coup.

NPO: Get GGA back in the war because they are awesome fighters and the war will totally change if they come back in.

What is this? Common sense in this insane thread? My guess is either you're right or it was all just one big misunderstanding.

Why don't we just hire a private investigator specializing in computer evidence and send him Mhawk, Moo, and Ironchef's computers? XD

-Bama

[Kylliah]

It strikes me as funny that we're all getting so involved in this issue, when it really doesn't concern more than a handful. (And no, I don't count myself in that handful, I'm just nosy.)

All we seem to have here is several parties with knee-jerk reactions to only partial information, resulting in something not unlike bad dinner theater. Why should a few seconds matter? And why are WE the ones obsessing over it? Honestly, NPO can't afford any more bad press, and GGA... well, what can I say about GGA that hasn't been said a million times?

Let those directly affected by this ask these tough questions, while the rest of us go back to beating on each other.

[Rush Sykes]

Since I was expecting all the LOLGGA stuff, the part below is what really stuck out at me...

I'm really glad none of my allies talk down to me in that fashion. I wouldn't put up with that.

With FRIENDS like that.....

[Lord Emares]

Everyone is assuming that all of the PCs track 00:04 in the same minute on each PC, which from mhawks logs and ironchefs screenies prove that they don't.

Currently we have that mhawks 00:03 = ironchef's 00:04 what we don't know is if mhawks time is off by 1 second or 59 seconds however, so there is already a potential error of 59 seconds in the calculations made above.

If we take ironchef's time to be "absolute time" and everyone else's to be relative to ironchef's time as these logs have logs

00:04 ironchef tells mhawk (say 10 secs for this to happen)

00:04 mhawk tells moo (34 secs here)

00:04 moo begins telling GGA (16 secs in which moo could have started typing)

00:05 moo finishes telling GGA

All of that is entirely possible, even if we don't take into account that mhawk could have started telling moo and then during that 34 second gap moo starts telling GGA.

Its entirely possible that Moo could have made an inference from these two lines of mhawks logs:

[12:03:53 AM] Mhawk says: athens is pulling terms

[12:04:00 AM] Mhawk says: gga violated terms

that the reason for athens pulling the terms was due to the gov changes and that he started telling GGA this immediately upon getting those two lines from mhawk.

Which means our timeline now looks something like this:

00:04 ironchef tells mhawk (say 10 secs for this to happen)

00:04 mhawk tells moo (7 secs here)

00:04 moo begins telling GGA (43 secs in which moo could have started typing)

00:05 mhawk then tells moo "[12:04:27 AM] Mhawk says: there was to be no gov change" (00:04 mhawk time = 00:05 ironchef time)

00:05 moo finishes tells GGA "you violated terms, by changing the govt"

That second timeline makes a hell of a lot more sense both in terms of cronology and how people act in high pressure situations.

None of this addresses whether or not Moo and Ironchef had spoken prior to this, but on balance I'd surmise that they probably hadn't. So while I personally have no great love for the GGA or the NPO the timeline being put forward by some in an attempt to "prove NPO is lying" doesn't really make much sense.

Edited May 26, 2009 by Lord Emares

[bkphysics]

This is just another fine example of how silly and out of hand IRC 'backdoor converstations' can get.

[King Xander the Only]

Epic log dump. I enjoyed it.

[Stormsend]

Finally, a series of log-filled posts where we don't get upset at the posted for wasting topic-space, but instead at the content.

Perhaps this war really is for the better.

[hizzy]

I think from this point on, discussing minutes and seconds in a log dump should be a legitimate CB across all of Planet Bob.

[Rickyman1984]

For my own mental health I'm just going to forget this whole episode exists. I'm sure there is a good guy and a bad guy in this drama somewhere but it's far too confusing to discern.

[Captain Flinders]

Too many logs being dumped.

[agnews]

moo must be enjoying this....

people eating each other over a couple of seconds of his time

[HalfEmpty]

Praying for a new player, one Paul Drake to walk into the forum and hand Hal a note.

[Harold the Saxon]

Looks like we have a Scooby-doo Mystery here on our hands, gang!

[Thom98]

In all of this confusion everyone but magic here missed it, I think we have our very first proof that time travel is possible. People we are part of history, wow what a moment in time this is for us all.

Is it out of the realm of possibility that some of those seconds are overlapped?

They are assuming that Mhawk wasn't typing to Moo as Ironchef was typing to him and that Moo wasn't typing to GGA at the same time Mhawk was typing to him.

and here I thought that I was just reading this for laughs

[jacosby]

Can anything be gained by further examining this situation? It is the worst case of "he said, she said" I have seen in a long time. As such, I am inclined to believe Moo and Mhawk but it really doesn't matter, this issue is ludacris.

[VIdiot the Great]

Say what you want about GGA, but they've got some damn loyal members. I'm not sure many of us would be willing to commit and fight for an alliance that kept making mistake after mistake.

And yes, I'm being serious. The membership is incredibly loyal to stick it out after the missteps of the past three months. Hopefully, a government structure will be put into place that will justify the loyalty of the membership.

Good luck guys.

VI

[TrotskysRevenge]

That's true that you said that, I have seen logs of it. However, there is also the fact that you supported KFH and SWR as the leaders of GGA (and their plan to leave and mass recruit from GGA's membership to form a "new GGA". There are several points that lead me to believe this. 1) GGA told me so. 2) mhawk confirmed it to me. 3) You deliberately withheld information about the identity of the person who had told you about the threat to GGA from shaneprice and the rest of the leadership 4) shaneprice has proven to be anti NPO in the past and it would be illogical for you to support him or even not to work against him. This establishes motive for you to act against a GGA led by these individuals.

I saw an IO blitz on my IRC channel when this first went down and I saw them all leave just as quickly. I've seen NPO out in force tonight more than any other night of the war except since maybe the very beginning. They are clearly fighting pretty damned hard to keep their PR. The question in the end is reduced to whether you believe that Moo supports his allies or whether he stabs them in the back. And in the end, you can ask GATO, Legion, CIS, VE, FAN, GOONS, Genmay, \m/, NpO, and many others how steadfast Pacifican support has been.

GGA on the other hand? They've done dumb stuff. They've done downright cruel stuff. But when have THEY stabbed an ally in the back, hmm? Moo and many other Pacificans are intelligent and well spoken, and NPO knows how to run a propaganda machine like no one's business. But that doesn't make them right. ;-)

I never supported the "other GGA." They asked for advice; I told them to talk between themselves as well as to degenerate108 who was trying to have both sides meet and compromise and do what they felt was right; shaneprice has those logs. The reality is that they were both illegally removed as it violated the charter; ironchef herself admitted this and said it was ok because it had been done before. In my mind, it was too messed up on both sides and everyone needed to talk and work it out.

I withheld the identity of the source so I could check with him to see if he had a problem with my revealing it; he didn't and so I eventually told shaneprice.

There is no convincing someone who doesn't want to be convinced; the reality is you were played. No harm, no foul in that—it happens. When someone is lying about something I said or did, you're damned right I will be out to defend myself.

And with this, I am done arguing about this. You believe what you will; stay close to GGA and you will eventually see with whom you are dealing.

Edited May 26, 2009 by TrotskysRevenge

[Guffey]

sileath,

what if my computer's time is 00:00:30, but all that is visible is 00:00

and anothers is 00:00:00 and all that is visible is 00:00

30 seconds pass, mine now is 00:01, and the others is still 00:00

so 1 minute appears to have passed on one PC, but it didn't on another.

you cannot tell how the time passes, because it all depends on how far into that minute each persons time stamps are. some peoples minutes change at differnt times. they are not exactly 1 minute or 2 minutes apart. they could be anywhere in between.

this has all given me a headache, and i'm inclined to believe mhawk and moo over ironchef here. but it is still all just a miscommunication, that is why you always confirm like GGA did with Athens. Except to them it looked like a setup, but was not. just miscommunicaiton

Edited May 26, 2009 by Guffey

[bzelger]

I don't think even Ochocinco can save you now.

[Coursca]

This is my opinion on all of this:

Cheeseburger.

Seriously, though, this all makes my head hurt. I hope you guys get this all sorted out, but I can't say that I have a lot of faith that it will.

[Teh Chad]

I'm really glad I wasted my time reading all this.

tl;dr BAWWWW

[jacosby]

That's true that you said that, I have seen logs of it. However, there is also the fact that you supported KFH and SWR as the leaders of GGA (and their plan to leave and mass recruit from GGA's membership to form a "new GGA". There are several points that lead me to believe this. 1) GGA told me so. 2) mhawk confirmed it to me. 3) You deliberately withheld information about the identity of the person who had told you about the threat to GGA from shaneprice and the rest of the leadership 4) shaneprice has proven to be anti NPO in the past and it would be illogical for you to support him or even not to work against him. This establishes motive for you to act against a GGA led by these individuals.

I saw an IO blitz on my IRC channel when this first went down and I saw them all leave just as quickly. I've seen NPO out in force tonight more than any other night of the war except since maybe the very beginning. They are clearly fighting pretty damned hard to keep their PR. The question in the end is reduced to whether you believe that Moo supports his allies or whether he stabs them in the back. And in the end, you can ask GATO, Legion, CIS, VE, FAN, GOONS, Genmay, \m/, NpO, and many others how steadfast Pacifican support has been.

GGA on the other hand? They've done dumb stuff. They've done downright cruel stuff. But when have THEY stabbed an ally in the back, hmm? Moo and many other Pacificans are intelligent and well spoken, and NPO knows how to run a propaganda machine like no one's business. But that doesn't make them right. ;-)

Anytime that you would like to actually get The Legion's opinion on the subject, please, feel free to ask. Until then do not lump us into a generalized statement that by no means represents how we feel about NPO.