The lads will be home by Christmas

[Johnny Apocalypse]

1 hour ago, Caustic said:

 

You've been dreaming and not doing your entire CN career, why stop now?

 

I guess that's where we differ (among many other ways); I don't see this as a career and a quest for relevance whereas you do and really pride yourself on that. Whatever helps you feel important and sleep at night though I guess! Getting under your skins for you to come out collectively to line up and tell me how irrelevant I am is endlessly entertaining. 

 

1 hour ago, HeroofTime55 said:

This is quite literally the opposite of what I said. We ended the Hegemony, and attempts at raids will most likely be met with massive retaliation.  On paper, this war is a "draw," but in pragmatic terms, we have re-shaped the political landscape and ended the unipolar paradigm.  It's a game now, boys and girls.

I know, it's tough for people like you and Kap, as people better than you achieve your wettest dreams of yesteryear. So I get it, I get why you're out here running your mouth.

 

Hegemony is still there though? You cut down their mid-tiers and bashed each other for about 6 months but nothing has actually changed in the grand scheme of things. You haven't reshaped any paradigm and we still live in very much the same world as before you launched your offensive except now you have more casualties and less money. The one thing you have accomplished is that you've just made your opposition to the Hegemony known and established it with your network of allies and treaties, if you'd truly re-shaped the landscape then you'd be the ones in charge and they would be surrendering to you rather than both of you conceding to white peace. If you truly were victorious you would have sued for a surrender but we both know that neither you nor the Hegemony met the conditions that would equate to a victory. This is just a temporary lull and I have no doubt you or they will attempt this again in the future to actually accomplish those goals, I look forward to seeing if either of you succeed in doing so next time.

 

The reality is that neither of you could win this fight as it stands and if you really want to re-shape the landscape it's gonna take a do-over on your part. Just because you're louder in public than they are doesn't change the fact they they out-stat you on a massive scale, if there weren't restrictions in place that prevented a mass down-declare? You guys would've hands down lost this fight. That's the objective reality of things, no matter how much you thump your chests about this.

 

Whatever you think my 'wettest dreams' are I can assure you that you're sorely mistaken with whatever your perception of that might be. I'm quite content to just roam around, take potshots at people and defend allies/alliances who I believe to have just cause for defense or aggression according to what is outlined in the Moldavi Doctrine. In case you hadn't noticed, I don't play favourites when it comes to running my mouth about people- you're not special. Difference is that when I run my mouth about how terrible CLAWS/NPO/Doom are, they don't rush to the forum to trot out the same tired lines and their egos aren't so easily bruised by the mildest of criticism.

Edited December 23, 2022 by Johnny Apocalypse

[Caustic]

43 minutes ago, Johnny Apocalypse said:

 

I guess that's where we differ (among many other ways); I don't see this as a career and a quest for relevance whereas you do and really pride yourself on that. Whatever helps you feel important and sleep at night though I guess! Getting under your skins for you to come out collectively to line up and tell me how irrelevant I am is endlessly entertaining. 

 

Which of us writes endless walls of text to help themselves feel relevant and important? Sure ain't me. Hopefully it helps you sleep at night!

[firingline]

2 hours ago, Johnny Apocalypse said:

 

Yeah, that is the standard response one should have to being attacked- defend yourselves. If you're happy to continue destroying their tech why did you agree to peace?  

 

I'll answer; both sides ran out of targets in range to have any meaningful impact on the balance of power and had fought to stalemate. Also a number of alliances from both coalitions weren't really contributing anything anyway.

 

Maybe next time everyone can streamline their respective coalitions, rather than attempt to throw enough crap at a wall and hope that it sticks long enough for someone to declare a decisive victory.

 

Sorry this war didn't live up to your standards and expectations, Johnny.

[HeroofTime55]

1 hour ago, Johnny Apocalypse said:

 

I don't see this as a career and a
 

For you, it hasn't been for a while now.

[Johnny Apocalypse]

56 minutes ago, Caustic said:

 

Which of us writes endless walls of text to help themselves feel relevant and important? Sure ain't me. Hopefully it helps you sleep at night!

It does! I enjoy writing not because it makes me feel important, it's just a fun creative outlet. Maybe you should make a bit more of an effort and give it a go  (you know, just as a precaution if your cult collapses and you have nobody to validate your existence again)

 

49 minutes ago, firingline said:

 

Sorry this war didn't live up to your standards and expectations, Johnny.

That's okay, I know I have unreasonable standards so it was expected.

 

29 minutes ago, HeroofTime55 said:

For you, it hasn't been for a while now.

 

True and I love it, I don't have to engage with morons if I don't feel like it and I can spit bile where I please. Much better to live on my own terms than to wind up a mindless droog living in caustic's shadow like yourself 🤷‍♂️

 

I remember a time long ago when you were capable of independent thought. That kool-aid must be something eh?

Edited December 23, 2022 by Johnny Apocalypse

[Caustic]

By "cult" you mean my crew of friends? Because yes, ones existence is actually validated by friends. You might try it sometime, you might like it.

[HeroofTime55]

In this thread, I have literally disagreed with every other NG poster and most other people (except for filthy neutral jerdge) on whether or not this white peace deal ended DBDC's open war dec.  Is that not enough of an independent thought? Or do I have to lose all my friends and become a social outcast before it counts?

[Jason8]

23 minutes ago, HeroofTime55 said:

In this thread, I have literally disagreed with every other NG poster and most other people (except for filthy neutral jerdge) on whether or not this white peace deal ended DBDC's open war dec.  Is that not enough of an independent thought? Or do I have to lose all my friends and become a social outcast before it counts?

You'd only be an independent thinker if you left NG and joined IRON during a war between both those alliances.  I think.  I'm having major trouble following most lines of thinking in this thread, actually.

[Thrash]

4 hours ago, Johnny Apocalypse said:

neither of you won.

 

That sounds like a win to me.

[Kapleo]

4 hours ago, HeroofTime55 said:

I know, it's tough for people like you and Kap, as people better than you achieve your wettest dreams of yesteryear.

It's fine if you go off on this kind of stuff. I don't kink shame. 

Edited December 23, 2022 by Kapleo

[jerdge]

6 hours ago, Johnny Apocalypse said:

[...]

Hegemony is still there though? You cut down their mid-tiers and bashed each other for about 6 months but nothing has actually changed in the grand scheme of things. You haven't reshaped any paradigm and we still live in very much the same world as before you launched your offensive

[...] neither you nor the Hegemony met the conditions that would equate to a victory. [...]

I have no horse in this race but an hegemony that doesn't crush their opponents isn't an hegemony anymore, which is a new paradigm.

Please note, my point isn't that they're not an hegemony anymore, it's that your reasoning doesn't seem entirely sound.

 

6 hours ago, Johnny Apocalypse said:

[...] they out-stat you on a massive scale, if there weren't restrictions in place that prevented a mass down-declare [...]

That a side would be significantly stronger if things were different doesn't really mean that they're stronger.

 

BTW, I have no opinion on the Hegemony being still hegemonic or not, I'm simply too little informed about all of this. It's that I hold you at higher standards than most.

 

 

3 hours ago, HeroofTime55 said:

[...] filthy neutral jerdge [...]

Hey I do wash up!

 

(Your reasoning on that matter seems sounds to me BTW, and I hold you too at higher standards than most.)

 

Edited December 23, 2022 by jerdge
clarity

[Thrash]

2 hours ago, jerdge said:

I have no horse in this race but an hegemony that doesn't crush their opponents isn't an hegemony anymore, which is a new paradigm.

 

Exactly.

[Johnny Apocalypse]

7 hours ago, Thrash said:

 

That sounds like a win to me.

 

In some respects it is but it isn't decisive, considering all the effort put into this war for it to end in white peace? It's a pretty anti-climactic outcome for a coalition known as Herogasm.

 

4 hours ago, jerdge said:

I have no horse in this race but an hegemony that doesn't crush their opponents isn't an hegemony anymore, which is a new paradigm.

Please note, my point isn't that they're not an hegemony anymore, it's that your reasoning doesn't seem entirely sound.

 

You're right, so if we follow that line of thinking? They ceased to be an hegemony in early 2020 when Oculus and RFI were forced into granting White Peace (with the assistance of Polar) to Non Grata and COBRA after they dogpiled both alliances. COBRA allies countered CLAWS for a week as a tit-for-tat retaliation and FTW left/were ejected from (depending on who you ask I don't care) the RFI bloc. The hegemony failed to crush their opponents not due to a lack of strength but a lack of political capital as they had also lost a key ally and the underdogs got away with a counter-attack against one of them with no repercussions.

 

The hegemony at that time is the same as the hegemony of this time, if you think about it their reign actually ended then and this would be more accurately seen as a sideways move by other forces who are trying to establish a new one. My argument would be that they have failed to establish it with this war and have merely clearly defined who the opposition are. If you trace it back, the new paradigm began in the wake of the Bicycle War where the Hegemony failed to destroy/undermine the alliances that they knew posed a threat to them.

Edited December 23, 2022 by Johnny Apocalypse

[Master Hakai]

Early Prediction For The Next Three Pages Of This Thread:

 

 

1. Johnny Apopolipse continues to write eloquent paragraphs outlining specific narratives relating to current and past politics, as well as projections moving forward. There will be a mix of objective fact and subjective opinion.
2. Others will quote tweet jonny and call him stupid. Brief statements explaining why he does not matter, never mattered, will never matter, etc.
3. Viewers may chime in with little comments.
4. Viewer comments will be responded to with statements having little or nothing to do with content of original comment.
5. Nothing will be accomplished (Editor's Note: I am least confident about this prediction).

 

 

 

[Kapleo]

7 minutes ago, Master Hakai said:

Early Prediction For The Next Three Pages Of This Thread:

 

 

1. Johnny Apopolipse continues to write eloquent paragraphs outlining specific narratives relating to current and past politics, as well as projections moving forward. There will be a mix of objective fact and subjective opinion.
2. Others will quote tweet jonny and call him stupid. Brief statements explaining why he does not matter, never mattered, will never matter, etc.
3. Viewers may chime in with little comments.
4. Viewer comments will be responded to with statements having little or nothing to do with content of original comment.
5. Nothing will be accomplished (Editor's Note: I am least confident about this prediction).

 

 

 

 

Here is a traditional coquito recipe (Coconut eggnog)

In a blender, add:

 

1. Evaporated milk (1 can)

2. Coconut cream, preferably Coco Lopez (1 can)

3. Sweetened condensed milk (1 can)

4. Rum (amount depends of how much of a drunkard you are or no rum at all)

5. Vanilla extract (1 tbsp)

6. Cinnamon (idk I just go with ancestral instincts here)

 

Blend on high until mixture is well combined for 1 to 2 minutes. Transfer mixture into glass bottles and chill in the refrigerator until cold. 

 

[Lyanna Mormont]

57 minutes ago, Kapleo said:

 

Here is a traditional coquito recipe (Coconut eggnog)

In a blender, add:

 

1. Evaporated milk (1 can)

2. Coconut cream, preferably Coco Lopez (1 can)

3. Sweetened condensed milk (1 can)

4. Rum (amount depends of how much of a drunkard you are or no rum at all)

5. Vanilla extract (1 tbsp)

6. Cinnamon (idk I just go with ancestral instincts here)

 

Blend on high until mixture is well combined for 1 to 2 minutes. Transfer mixture into glass bottles and chill in the refrigerator until cold. 

 

 

omg I had this once and never knew what it was called!!!!!!!!!!! THIS DRINK IS SO GOOD. 

[Kapleo]

40 minutes ago, Lyanna Mormont said:

 

omg I had this once and never knew what it was called!!!!!!!!!!! THIS DRINK IS SO GOOD. 

Glad you liked it! I'm definitely getting drunk on it this weekend. Also Pitorro but I don't recommend that one unless party is almost over and you're ready to pass out lol

 

Feliz navidad!

Edited December 23, 2022 by Kapleo

[Mogar]

17 hours ago, Johnny Apocalypse said:

True and I love it, I don't have to engage with morons if I don't feel like it and I can spit bile where I please. Much better to live on my own terms than to wind up a mindless droog living in caustic's shadow like yourself 

 

I remember a time long ago when you were capable of independent thought. That kool-aid must be something eh?

While I know you have your line you have to stick to, I don't think you understand how little Caustic influences NG decision making for a fairly lengthy time now.

 

I can say for sure you would be hard pressed to have such a collection of personalities held together elsewhere but to compare NG's government to a traditional government is kind of silly too, the alliances on the "hegemony" side have a whole lot less government and general membership discussion/interaction than NG would ever tolerate.

 

The only kool-aid NG is drinking is likely mixed with several types of alcohol on a movie night, you should join an alliance with more than a half dozen active people, it's pretty nice.

[HeroofTime55]

9 hours ago, Johnny Apocalypse said:

 

In some respects it is but it isn't decisive, considering all the effort put into this war for it to end in white peace? It's a pretty anti-climactic outcome for a coalition known as Herogasm.

 

 

You're right, so if we follow that line of thinking? They ceased to be an hegemony in early 2020 when Oculus and RFI were forced into granting White Peace (with the assistance of Polar) to Non Grata and COBRA after they dogpiled both alliances. COBRA allies countered CLAWS for a week as a tit-for-tat retaliation and FTW left/were ejected from (depending on who you ask I don't care) the RFI bloc. The hegemony failed to crush their opponents not due to a lack of strength but a lack of political capital as they had also lost a key ally and the underdogs got away with a counter-attack against one of them with no repercussions.

 

The hegemony at that time is the same as the hegemony of this time, if you think about it their reign actually ended then and this would be more accurately seen as a sideways move by other forces who are trying to establish a new one. My argument would be that they have failed to establish it with this war and have merely clearly defined who the opposition are. If you trace it back, the new paradigm began in the wake of the Bicycle War where the Hegemony failed to destroy/undermine the alliances that they knew posed a threat to them.

Watching you rewrite history to include yourself is quite cute.

That war ended in white peace because Polaris, then a part of the hegemony, stepped in and said it wasn't OK, and the rest of the hegemony, seeking to preserve their hegemony, acquiesced to Polaris' will.  It was not because NG/COBRA drew that conflict to a stalemate.  

But, I must say, very nice try, lol.

[Johnny Apocalypse]

1 hour ago, HeroofTime55 said:

Watching you rewrite history to include yourself is quite cute.

That war ended in white peace because Polaris, then a part of the hegemony, stepped in and said it wasn't OK, and the rest of the hegemony, seeking to preserve their hegemony, acquiesced to Polaris' will.  It was not because NG/COBRA drew that conflict to a stalemate.  

But, I must say, very nice try, lol.

 

Yes it ended because Oculus and Polar ally Legion neglected to fulfill their treaty obligation regarding the sharing of intelligence when they decided to collectively jump on both of our heads- specifically Non Grata because you were and remain allies. As a result, Polar stepped in to ensure the conflict was brought to a close or else Polar would have militarily defended Non Grata. The hegemony reluctantly acquiesed because they could not afford to lose another ally in Polar as FTW were already on their way out of the RFI bloc. They launched a war on intel acquired via dubious means and had not the capital to follow through without losing clout. It was after that war that space opened up for a coalition like RFD to begin working towards the war we just fought in.

 

If they'd just jumped on COBRA then we'd have been screwed, if they had just jumped on NG then COBRA and our allies would have rode to your defense at the time because we were still allied. That's why our allies ended up launching a counter-offensive when literally none of your allies except for Polar stepped up offering to do the same. At the time we collectively considered you to be friends, this obviously changed pretty rapidly in the aftermath of that war as you well know.

 

I was at the negotiating table with Stewie, I don't need to write myself into a history I'm already a part of.

 

  

2 hours ago, Mogar said:

you should join an alliance with more than a half dozen active people, it's pretty nice.

 

Sure is, that's why I party with the Sith on other planets. I prefer to mingle with folk on an individual basis here nowadays.

Edited December 23, 2022 by Johnny Apocalypse

[James Spanier]

1 hour ago, HeroofTime55 said:

Watching you rewrite history to include yourself is quite cute.

That war ended in white peace because Polaris, then a part of the hegemony, stepped in and said it wasn't OK, and the rest of the hegemony, seeking to preserve their hegemony, acquiesced to Polaris' will.  It was not because NG/COBRA drew that conflict to a stalemate.  

But, I must say, very nice try, lol.

 

2 minutes ago, Johnny Apocalypse said:

 

Yes it ended because Oculus and Polar ally Legion neglected to fulfill their treaty obligation regarding the sharing of intelligence when they decided to collectively jump on both of our heads- specifically Non Grata because you were and remain allies. As a result, Polar stepped in to ensure the conflict was brought to a close or else Polar would have militarily defended Non Grata. The hegemony reluctantly acquiesed because they could not afford to lose another ally in Polar as FTW were already on their way out of the RFI bloc. They launched a war on intel acquired via dubious means and had not the capital to follow through without losing clout. It was after that war that space opened up for a coalition like RFD to begin working towards the war we just fought in.

 

If they'd just jumped on COBRA then we'd have been screwed, if they had just jumped on NG then COBRA and our allies would have rode to your defense at the time because we were still allied. That's why our allies ended up launching a counter-offensive when literally none of your allies except for Polar stepped up offering to do the same. At the time we collectively considered you to be friends, this obviously changed pretty rapidly in the aftermath of that war as you well know.

 

I was at the negotiating table with Stewie, I don't need to write myself into a history I'm already a part of.

 

Close, but not quite. Pacifica and IRON, out of frustration, had already written off Polar when they intervened, and RFI had infrastructure in place for responding to a Polar counter before the war even started (because unlike Oculus we observed two years prior that Polaris was not as on board with Oculus as the rest of their bloc pretended they were).

 

The issue was that the Legion didn't want to see Polar on the other side, so at their urging to RFI the summit meeting was agreed to. There was, at no point, a consideration of 'preserving the hegemony' involved, it was RFI's consideration for the Legion. That is why Pacifica and IRON said basically nothing throughout the procedure. Had the peace summit produced a result that was deemed unacceptable, the war would have continued, however Buuyo managed to work with deathbiter and myself to come up with what was ultimately signed. That's why there was outrage over the "super clever maneuver" of trying to avoid adhering to the intent of including GATO and Argent in the Boognish counter declares (the actual DoWs, not individual nations wars). It had nothing to do with "oh no they're dogpiling CLAWS!" and everything to do with the Legion knowing full well that it was going to undo the peace deathbiter had burned a ton of his own political capital to secure.

 

Lyanna's late night decision to "fix" that issue was the thing that ultimately secured that peace you very nearly torpedoed without even realizing it.

[firingline]

6 minutes ago, James Spanier said:

 

 

Close, but not quite. Pacifica and IRON, out of frustration, had already written off Polar when they intervened, and RFI had infrastructure in place for responding to a Polar counter before the war even started (because unlike Oculus we observed two years prior that Polaris was not as on board with Oculus as the rest of their bloc pretended they were).

 

The issue was that the Legion didn't want to see Polar on the other side, so at their urging to RFI the summit meeting was agreed to. There was, at no point, a consideration of 'preserving the hegemony' involved, it was RFI's consideration for the Legion. That is why Pacifica and IRON said basically nothing throughout the procedure. Had the peace summit produced a result that was deemed unacceptable, the war would have continued, however Buuyo managed to work with deathbiter and myself to come up with what was ultimately signed. That's why there was outrage over the "super clever maneuver" of trying to avoid adhering to the intent of including GATO and Argent in the Boognish counter declares (the actual DoWs, not individual nations wars). It had nothing to do with "oh no they're dogpiling CLAWS!" and everything to do with the Legion knowing full well that it was going to undo the peace deathbiter had burned a ton of his own political capital to secure.

 

Lyanna's late night decision to "fix" that issue was the thing that ultimately secured that peace you very nearly torpedoed without even realizing it.

 

As it turns out, Legion's not been as on board with RFI as the rest of RFI pretended they were. 

[James Spanier]

2 minutes ago, firingline said:

 

As it turns out, Legion's not been as on board with RFI as the rest of RFI pretended they were. 

 

A fair criticism, though I'll contend that the severity of the two is not even close to being equal.

[Kapleo]

12 minutes ago, James Spanier said:

 

A fair criticism, though I'll contend that the severity of the two is not even close to being equal.

From a peanut gallery perspective, you might wanna start burning the love letters you may have exchanged with Legion before this. Your adversaries know how to exploit loyalty cracks very well, and Legion seems to be the Hegemony's biggest crack right now. Split loyalties always end up in breakups. Someone always gets dumped and the pattern says Legion will be the one doing the dumping. 

Edited December 24, 2022 by Kapleo

[Johnny Apocalypse]

39 minutes ago, James Spanier said:

 

 

Close, but not quite. Pacifica and IRON, out of frustration, had already written off Polar when they intervened, and RFI had infrastructure in place for responding to a Polar counter before the war even started (because unlike Oculus we observed two years prior that Polaris was not as on board with Oculus as the rest of their bloc pretended they were).

 

The issue was that the Legion didn't want to see Polar on the other side, so at their urging to RFI the summit meeting was agreed to. There was, at no point, a consideration of 'preserving the hegemony' involved, it was RFI's consideration for the Legion. That is why Pacifica and IRON said basically nothing throughout the procedure. Had the peace summit produced a result that was deemed unacceptable, the war would have continued, however Buuyo managed to work with deathbiter and myself to come up with what was ultimately signed. That's why there was outrage over the "super clever maneuver" of trying to avoid adhering to the intent of including GATO and Argent in the Boognish counter declares (the actual DoWs, not individual nations wars). It had nothing to do with "oh no they're dogpiling CLAWS!" and everything to do with the Legion knowing full well that it was going to undo the peace deathbiter had burned a ton of his own political capital to secure.

 

Lyanna's late night decision to "fix" that issue was the thing that ultimately secured that peace you very nearly torpedoed without even realizing it.

 

I believe I did make it known we were arranging a counter assault to you and informed you which alliances were going to be participating in that- as well as the agreed week long timeframe that this counter would last for which you all signed off on except for an absent CLAWS. The one thing I did not inform you of was who would be targetted because ultimately? We were at war, I wasn't about to show my entire hand to an enemy combatant who I did not trust and there was never an explicit requirement that we attacked all of RFI- just that we would be launching a counter-offensive in retaliation. It's a good thing Lyanna stepped in to fix it, especially as I had been awake for about 2-3 days negotiating with your camp and until a last minute call from CLAWS one hour before the end of the ceasefire to say "nah we aren't okay with this, we just want WP for everyone" despite being intentionally absent from the negotiations and were essentially (as far as I saw it ) playing chicken with the 48hr ceasefire both camps agreed upon. At that stage I had already mobilised Boognish to launch our offensive and there was no calling it off, so really you should be looking at your own allies deliberate absence from the peace talks. If they had spoken up sooner then we could've ironed out that key detail which threatened to "torpedo" the peace" - I was there for the entirety of those proceedings, your allies decided it wasn't worth their time until the last minute. If anyone threatened that peace it was primarily your allies, not mine. I was an enemy combatant with allies who had a score to settle, it should have come as no surprise to you that we chose to target CLAWS frankly.

 

All the same, I appreciate the perspective from your camp here so thank you. All I had to operate on at the time was what we discussed in the negotiations. You were all on board with the plan until CLAWS spoke up and you began backpedalling, asking for an extension of the ceasefire when they did finally chime in. You launched an overkill offensive on my alliance and my allies in Non Grata, I wasn't in the mood to acquise and give the order to stand down because of CLAWS deliberate negligence in the negotiations.

Edited December 24, 2022 by Johnny Apocalypse