berbers Posted March 21, 2016 Report Share Posted March 21, 2016 (edited) But that's just like...your opinion, man. Edit: that was meant for auctors comment Edited March 21, 2016 by berbers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
berbers Posted March 21, 2016 Report Share Posted March 21, 2016  I ll be honest .. Umbrella has been nothing but great Allies along with the rest of our allies with nothing but respect .  End of Story I am sure they will be as long as you do everything they want and don't complain. Mi6 used to say they were great allies as well and we all know how that turned out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auctor Posted March 21, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 21, 2016 But that's just like...your opinion, man.Edit: that was meant for auctors commentOK, let's pull this apart.1 Umbrella war turned into 4 Umbrella wars. Umbrella pushing Sengoku to the front of the firing line line became Sengoku charging in to right the wrong done to it. Umbrella callously protecting its stats became Umbrella not protecting its stats all that well all the sudden.Opinions become facts when they match reality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the rebel Posted March 21, 2016 Report Share Posted March 21, 2016 What purpose does it serve to throw Sengoku nations with less tech at Tim and BONES while the big Umb nations hit the smaller nations? Who knows maybe the weaker nations are being used as nuclear sponges to remove those target nations stockpiles, which would vastly limit their damage output against the heavy hitters in the future rounds, which means they will be able to field multiple nations for numerous rounds keeping them staggered and with limited nuclear weapons. Its almost like you think alliances shouldn't use strategy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shahenshah Posted March 21, 2016 Report Share Posted March 21, 2016 (edited) Its almost like you think alliances shouldn't use strategy. Waiting on the peace mode controversies :popcorn: . Edited March 21, 2016 by shahenshah Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brucemania Posted March 21, 2016 Report Share Posted March 21, 2016 I am sure they will be as long as you do everything they want and don't complain. Mi6 used to say they were great allies as well and we all know how that turned out. Â Did you not think that just maybe there is common wants within Oculus and that it is actually not self serving as some are showing such as ...... hmmm .. maybe yourself ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prozenz Posted March 21, 2016 Report Share Posted March 21, 2016 Berbers, stay away from Umbrella. They're our protectorate. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
berbers Posted March 21, 2016 Report Share Posted March 21, 2016 OK, let's pull this apart. 1 Umbrella war turned into 4 Umbrella wars. Umbrella pushing Sengoku to the front of the firing line line became Sengoku charging in to right the wrong done to it. Umbrella callously protecting its stats became Umbrella not protecting its stats all that well all the sudden. Opinions become facts when they match reality. I was referring to the top two nations on Mongols, i originally thought JoshuaR only declared on one of those but when I rechecked I realized he hit both and changed my wording to 1 umbrella nation. I believe in one of my responses I actually said top two nations, but when I was speakiny of the monster nations, that is who I meant. I never said Umbrella pushed you into the firing line, just that they didn't volunteer to go with you when you did. Which ties into my opinion on this war and Umbrella in general. I Don't recall saying they were doing a bad job of protecting their stats, I think they do a great job of protecting their stats :/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
berbers Posted March 21, 2016 Report Share Posted March 21, 2016 Who knows maybe the weaker nations are being used as nuclear sponges to remove those target nations stockpiles, which would vastly limit their damage output against the heavy hitters in the future rounds, which means they will be able to field multiple nations for numerous rounds keeping them staggered and with limited nuclear weapons. Its almost like you think alliances shouldn't use strategy. I think people should use strategy, I just find Umbrella type strategies abhorrent. Also it would not surprise me that the weaker nations were thrown in to be nuclear sponges so the bigger nations don't get hurt as bad. I guess me and Rebel don't disagree on everything :P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Warrior Posted March 21, 2016 Report Share Posted March 21, 2016 Two nations are very much bigger than the rest, which there are exactly 1 umb nations fighting. What purpose does it serve to throw Sengoku nations with less tech at Tim and BONES while the big Umb nations hit the smaller nations? Anyway, there is almost no point in arguing when this can be easily settled by looking at the stats when the war ends. If I end up wrong, I will aknowledge that, I just don't think I will be wrong. And it's not like I expect anyone allied to Umb to agree with me, we all know what happened to the last Umbrella ally to question their behaviour ;) Edit: 4 umbrella wars against the biggest nations, for kicks why not look at how many Sengoku nations with comparatively low tech levels are engaged on those same nations? Look man, if you don't consider 60k+ tech nations to be a part of that super tier that you are claiming that Umbrella isn't fighting, there is nothing anyone can say to change your mind. Regardless, your point doesn't stand with many others here.  As for Sengoku declaring the first wars on Bones: Sengoku declared because Sengoku was wronged. It's as simple as that. It is pretty asinine to assume that Umbrella would be the first ones in on a war where they were not the target of the initial aggression by Bones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
berbers Posted March 21, 2016 Report Share Posted March 21, 2016 Look man, if you don't consider 60k+ tech nations to be a part of that super tier that you are claiming that Umbrella isn't fighting, there is nothing anyone can say to change your mind. Regardless, your point doesn't stand with many others here.  As for Sengoku declaring the first wars on Bones: Sengoku declared because Sengoku was wronged. It's as simple as that. It is pretty asinine to assume that Umbrella would be the first ones in on a war where they were not the target of the initial aggression by Bones. So it's unusual for a stronger AA to declare with a weaker ally to ensure appropriate coverage? Because that's how it usually works when one of the AA's aren't pixel hugging manipulators :/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auctor Posted March 21, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 21, 2016 So it's unusual for a stronger AA to declare with a weaker ally to ensure appropriate coverage? Because that's how it usually works when one of the AA's aren't pixel hugging manipulators :/You are trying so hard. It's adorable. Let's get you an appointment with Lowsten and he can dumb it down for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
berbers Posted March 21, 2016 Report Share Posted March 21, 2016 (edited) Dbl post, also Lowsten is much to important to grant me an audience Edited March 21, 2016 by berbers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sephiroth Posted March 21, 2016 Report Share Posted March 21, 2016 If Sengoku took the lead with this war; it only makes sense for Sengoku to be the most heavily engaged initially as allies provide support as needed. So Berbers, I don't think your argument is going anywhere. When an alliance is getting allied support, most aren't thinking about wanting their ally to take more damage than necessary. They are happy for the assistance they're getting & don't expect their allies take more damage than them before they've even been countered. Alliances always try to maximize damage for the enemy while minimizing it for themselves in comparison. Â Auctor and Jrenster know what they're doing, not everyone is only thinking one move ahead. Â Â Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown Smurf Posted March 21, 2016 Report Share Posted March 21, 2016 (edited) I cannot imagine that you are legitimately this obtuse, because you've been around for a while, and understand how war here works. If you really don't understand why events are happening the way they are happening, maybe you need to think about this mechanically. Or perhaps think about it from the point of view of someone who is leading a war effort of our nature.  I understand your mechanics but I don't agree with it, assuming I understand it correctly, . If I were on your end, I would be maximizing declarations on the upper tier nations. Force them to run out of nukes faster. It looks* as though your (Umb) strat here is to have single declarations over a long period of time single making sure the supertier guys are nuked everyday for a long period of time.  * = based on the current declarations.  Which makes sense when you don't take into account the nukes they are pouring out. You should have their defensive slots full because the goal here is to force them to run low on nukes, not just keep nuking them for a long period. Either they will have to nuke everyone and run out of nukes faster or they will have to choose who to nuke which will allow the other people declaring on them the ability to win GA/CMs/etc and take away tech faster.  I'd love to discuss this OOC somewhere with your military dept. send someone my way? Edited March 21, 2016 by Unknown Smurf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qazzian Posted March 21, 2016 Report Share Posted March 21, 2016  I understand your mechanics but I don't agree with it, assuming I understand it correctly, . If I were on your end, I would be maximizing declarations on the upper tier nations. Force them to run out of nukes faster. It looks* as though your (Umb) strat here is to have single declarations over a long period of time single making sure the supertier guys are nuked everyday for a long period of time.  * = based on the current declarations.  Which makes sense when you don't take into account the nukes they are pouring out. You should have their defensive slots full because the goal here is to force them to run low on nukes, not just keep nuking them for a long period. Either they will have to nuke everyone and run out of nukes faster or they will have to choose who to nuke which will allow the other people declaring on them the ability to win GA/CMs/etc and take away tech faster.  I'd love to discuss this OOC somewhere with your military dept. send someone my way?  You do make a good point on draining the nukes, but also consider that many targets at the same time means many nukes at the same high tech level.Fewer targets means that while the number of nukes last longer, each one is successively weaker due to the supertier nations losing tech daily. I guess it depends on how lucky nations are getting around the SDI. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
berbers Posted March 21, 2016 Report Share Posted March 21, 2016 Also the more nations on each super tier the more DA's or if someone is stupid GA's that can be done. Limiting to one at a time would probably be the strategy of choice for a long-term grind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Spanier Posted March 21, 2016 Report Share Posted March 21, 2016 The unsung hero in all this is Argent, who have stepped in with offers for rebuilding aid before the first round of wars are even over. Â I don't remember having approved that, but I'm in no position to question Argent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BDRocks Posted March 21, 2016 Report Share Posted March 21, 2016 (edited) Personally I am very surprised to see DBDC sitting this war out while 20% of "their" super tier is taken out. Edit: This is the best case scenario for Oculus and I am sure how happy they must be right now being able to take out the super tier piece by piece. Having to fight them all at the same time, would of made this war actually damaging to Oclulus. Edited March 21, 2016 by BDRocks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the rebel Posted March 21, 2016 Report Share Posted March 21, 2016 I think people should use strategy, I just find Umbrella type strategies abhorrent. Also it would not surprise me that the weaker nations were thrown in to be nuclear sponges so the bigger nations don't get hurt as bad. I guess me and Rebel don't disagree on everything :P Indeed why would you throw away your best assets at the beginning as you need them for the long game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the rebel Posted March 21, 2016 Report Share Posted March 21, 2016 (edited) Personally I am very surprised to see DBDC sitting this war out while 20% of "their" super tier is taken out. Considering that they are allied to the bulk of Oculus, you suggesting they declare war on their allies? Edited March 21, 2016 by the rebel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Hitchcock Posted March 21, 2016 Report Share Posted March 21, 2016 Look man, if you don't consider 60k+ tech nations to be a part of that super tier that you are claiming that Umbrella isn't fighting, there is nothing anyone can say to change your mind. Regardless, your point doesn't stand with many others here.  As for Sengoku declaring the first wars on Bones: Sengoku declared because Sengoku was wronged. It's as simple as that. It is pretty asinine to assume that Umbrella would be the first ones in on a war where they were not the target of the initial aggression by Bones. They weren't. The 'initial aggression' by BONEs was a sanction in response to sanctions. Let's not turn this into anything more than what it was. And the word of the day folks: 'opportunism' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
white majik Posted March 21, 2016 Report Share Posted March 21, 2016 Indeed why would you throw away your best assets at the beginning as you need them for the long game. Shhh. No logic allowed here. It's obvious that we should be using the same strategies that are used on 5k tech nations.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
white majik Posted March 21, 2016 Report Share Posted March 21, 2016 They weren't. The 'initial aggression' by BONEs was a sanction in response to sanctions. aka an act of war, not sure why effort is being wasted trying to spin this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shimmer Posted March 21, 2016 Report Share Posted March 21, 2016 What ever will we do.Berbers and Lord Hithcock do not approve of our methods. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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