IRON sets a new record.

[Geerland]

Oh dear, who let tywin in.

[d3mon]

 

It was IRON that tried to split and place at a steep disadvantage the DH/TOP coalition in the dave war by inciting a war with CnG.

 

I remember LSF's actions that almost resulted in that but to say IRON was wrong in anyway is preposterous. Heck, back in the day even CnG leaders agreed with the actions that IRON took. The fact that you didn't have their back and still hold a grudge over it speaks volumes about TOP's character.

 

I hope you don't treat your other allies like that, I happen to like quite a few of them.

[Samus]

snip

You may not have been privy to that info at that specific time but conspiracies of your leadership not attempting to gather a coalition to roll us is a complete lie.

There are still logs on our forums of you guys attempting to recruit our ally NG to your cause of rolling us (because you thought they would cancel and 'revenge' attack us) which they happily declined.

So there is no misplaced paranoia, only TOP back peddling because you know what's about to come and you no longer have the support to do anything about it. Edited November 10, 2014 by Samus

[Fox Fire]

IRON o/

Tech o/

Lobsters o/

[iamthey]

It was IRON that was wronged and instead of backing it's oldest treaty partner, IRON was asked to bend over. It was IRON that ensured that there would be no escalation to CnG and IRON would still take care of it's own business and maintain and continue to contribute to the coalition in a war where TOP sat around, hid half the alliance in pm and chilled. The route you're saying would lead to a war with CnG actually led to a treaty with CnG.

That may be convincing to others, it was certainly convincing to top but it simply isn't true. Having been in argent at the time and directly courted by your alliance to participate in the CnG war I can tell you nobody I talked to from IRON actually gave two !@#$% about INT masquerading as MCRABT and acting like an idiot. The entire discussion was utterly concerned with targeting MK and turning the war that they and you're ally TOP were invested in into a losing one where their threat could be safely neutralized.
 

It was TOP that pushed for an aggresive war against NPO and placed IRON in the position of choosing between NPO and TOP. Everyone knew where the lines were being drawn, and IRON and TOP were likely to be on opposing sides, and perhaps we could have reconvened after the war and move on, like in Karma after you dropped treaties left and right to be on the winning side...but IRON cancelled the treaty when TOP literally told them that IRON is just a tool for their own end, and that it's just TOP's M.O [ Half alliance goes into PM, ride on the success/failure of one mass recruitment alliance], along with the grand delusions of the universe revolving solely around yourself.

After dave MK was in an entirely defensive position, if you actually consult the conversations of TOP/DH people at the time you'll find that they were acutely aware of their deteriorating diplomatic position and impending inevitable war. TOP-IRON/PF largely collapsed over this tension and differing opinions over what side to take. DR helped to foster this atmosphere and chose to break their ties with TOP and capitalize on anti-MK sentiment. This after fairly significantly benefiting from TOP's relationship with MK for years. I'm not saying you were wrong to push for an EQ like war, but I will say you chose a winning move against MK over a very long partnership with an ally. While it goes without saying that the TOP/IRON relationship had already been stressed for sometime, I'd argue that your own work to undermine TOP's diplomatic position, and the general lack of trust promoted by MCRABT's crusade are largely to blame.
 

Did you expect IRON to carry the war for you when more than half of your allies idled and half of you sat in peace mode? . We closed our front with a simple white peace and werent interested in pushing for anything else..you and some friends wanted to fight on for longer and other purposes, you carried on, your choice, we weren't obliged and certainly not obliged when people calling for action are chilling around idling by and specifically taking actions to make things harder (easing tensions lol?). Being part of that coalition was a big mistake, that I'll give you.

No I expected you to put up an actual effort. To actually you know fight TLR, instead you blew virtually every stagger and forced sengoku to carry the war. You let 90% of TLR hit peacemode. By contrast we heavily fought NSO, TPF, NATO, RnR and TIO. We also had limited participation against NG, GATO, NPO, and Kashmir. We consistently generated net damage output in the top 3 for the coalition, and did total damage in the top five. I didn't expect you to out do yourself, or take considerable risk on our behalf, I just anticipated an attempt. What I saw was a an embarrassment.
 

Ease of tensions?  It was your govt guys caught discussing rolling us and putting a nail in that coffin, it was your govt guy who was caught saying how he cant wait to see us rolled and this was all well after EQ. Fast forward and Post/end disorder, It was you guys who went around tipping your toes on the roll-IRON plan, which didn't take off. So dont tell us about irrational paranoia.  Prejudices? Your guy came into this thread trolling us man, we didn't come to your thread for a pissing contest. We've always tried to keep a healthy caution due to some of the facts yet we've also tried to pursue cordial relations, but coming in here with the sole intention of pissing on the thread reaffirms the belief of the kind of opinion TOP holds of IRON. Purposely going in to troll is quite a unique way of 'easing tensions'.

Serious attempts at detente occurred after disorder not before, if you're actually surprised that TOP didn't quite fancy youafter you triple timed them in EQ then welcome to the real world. Even so we didn't seriously make an attempt to coalition build against you and you were instead invited/welcomed into the proto-coalition a month before disorder happened. I tend to think actions speak louder than words, so if you're going to hold us responsible for the sentiments a gov member held against you two years ago then forgive me if I call you petty.

 

NG and STA and plenty of others have had good reasons to be pissed at us, but that's something that we'll manage amongst ourselves and have in many of the cases. It's quite a spin to portray TOP as an innocent bystander going about it's business and getting harmed by evil IRON on every turn and corner. We have tried to maintain cautious yet cordial relation despite TOP's repeated attempts to harm us at every opportunity it has gotten or to create such opportunities. You've tried your best to make our lives harder and that's absolutely fine bro. At least have the guts to own up.
 
You have some allies who really do know how to ease tensions and get a meaningful conversation going getting past all the hubris of he-said she-said.

Cautious but cordial isn't quite what I'd call hysterical over whether or not we'll take damage in this war, or the fixation with rolling TOP you, from what I've heard, possess. Edited November 10, 2014 by iamthey

[shahenshah]

That may be convincing to others, it was certainly convincing to top but it simply isn't true. Having been in argent at the time and directly courted by your alliance to participate in the CnG war I can tell you nobody I talked to from IRON actually gave two !@#$% about INT masquerading as MCRABT and acting like an idiot. The entire discussion was utterly concerned with targeting MK and turning the war that they and you're ally TOP were invested in into a losing one where their threat could be safely neutralized.

 

 

Not sure how you neutralize a threat by fighting against it in a loosing war. 

 

 

 

 

After dave MK was in an entirely defensive position, if you actually consult the conversations of TOP/DH people at the time you'll find that they were acutely aware of their deteriorating diplomatic position and impending inevitable war. TOP-IRON/PF largely collapsed over this tension and differing opinions over what side to take. DR helped to foster this atmosphere and chose to break their ties with TOP and capitalize on anti-MK sentiment. This after fairly significantly benefiting from TOP's relationship with MK for years. I'm not saying you were wrong to push for an EQ like war- at the time I hated MK's guts myself - but I will say you chose a winning move against MK over a very long partnership with an ally. While it goes without saying that the TOP/IRON relationship had already been stressed for sometime, I'd argue that your own work to undermine TOP's diplomatic position, and the general lack of trust promoted by MCRABT's crusade are largely to blame

.

The benefits occurred both ways, MK fought people it disliked and we did the same at that point in time, it was give and take and the benefits didnt flow one way.  Then, we all eventually reached the crossroads for several of the topics you and I have touched upon but have different opinions. We went into that Q n A to save the relation, but came out convinced it was unfortunately the end. No leader in IRON at the time could pull the plug on the treaty unless they had wide support, prior to it, most of the stress in relations were occurring at the govt level, member to member communications were slow but people generally didnt think problems were grave. The opinions changed after Q and A, blaming Rab for it is really disingenuous to put it mildly and sugar coating your own errors real heavy.

 

 

 

No I expected you to put up an actual effort. To actually you know fight TLR, instead you blew virtually every stagger and forced sengoku to carry the war. You let 90% of TLR hit peacemode. By contrast we heavily fought NSO, TPF, NATO, RnR and TIO. We also had limited participation against NG, GATO, NPO, and Kashmir. We consistently generated net damage output in the top 3 for the coalition, and did total damage in the top five. I didn't expect you to out do yourself, or take considerable risk on our behalf, I just anticipated an attempt. What I saw was a an embarrassment.

Then the rest of the coalition must have sucked real bad as we somehow managed to rank 8th or 9th out of 45? in damage given and 5th or 6th? out of 45? in taking it, nothing to be proud of being in that coalition. Rank and file had little or no interest in fighting TLR and rightly so, things were quite dysfunctional at the time, so yea, it was what it was.  I recall people were'nt pleased at FARK, and they were in top-4 in damage dealt. Point being, cant make everyone happy every time. 

 

 

 

Serious attempts at detente occurred after disorder not before, if you're actually surprised that TOP didn't quite fancy youafter you triple timed them in EQ then welcome to the real world. Even so we didn't seriously make an attempt to coalition build against you and you were instead invited/welcomed into the proto-coalition a month before disorder happened. I tend to think actions speak louder than words, so if you're going to hold us responsible for the sentiments a gov member held against you two years ago then forgive me if I call you petty.

You had nothing to do with us being in that coalition, your govt could'nt wait to see us rolled while being in the same coalition, the action I recall, followed by other actions to make our life harder, but I would'nt blame that on you, our own mistakes gave you the opportunity and you took it, but yea, easing tensions heh. Sentiments, as you put it, arent two years old. 

 

 

 

Cautious but cordial isn't quite what I'd call hysterical over whether or not we'll take damage in this war, or the fixation with rolling TOP you, from what I've heard, possess.

 

You come in here to troll and derail in a thread that has absolutely nothing to do with you...fixation yea? 

 

 

Anyway IAT, we can go in circles all day long, if you believe you or I are changing opinions, you must be new, but you arent, so why dont you stop derailing this?

---

 

2m tech..  :war: thanks to friends who gave us a chance and our community :)

Edited November 10, 2014 by shahenshah

[Garion]

Anyway IAT, we can go in circles all day long. I'd ask you to stop trying so hard to derail this further. 

 

Hey, I for one am enjoying the pissing contest.

[arentak]

IRON has amassed some pretty stats.  Good luck keeping them.  If I was a betting man, I'd be betting on Pacifica to overtake IRON.  You can't keep NPO down.

[brucemania]

 

Hey, I for one am enjoying the pissing contest.

 

 

I second this

[brucemania]

IRON has amassed some pretty stats.  Good luck keeping them.  If I was a betting man, I'd be betting on Pacifica to overtake IRON.  You can't keep NPO down.

 

Knew it would not take long for someone to get us in there.. and this is IRON's party not ours so they get the kudo's

Edited November 10, 2014 by brucemania

[shahenshah]

IRON has amassed some pretty stats.  Good luck keeping them.  If I was a betting man, I'd be betting on Pacifica to overtake IRON.  You can't keep NPO down.

They've been crawling up on to the score slowly but surely. Pretty amazing the growth NPO has achieved. 

[brucemania]

They've been crawling up on to the score slowly but surely. Pretty amazing the growth NPO has achieved. 

Thanks .. i am sure our govs and membership appreciate that :)

[emperordhruv]

Congrats! Quite an achievement tbh.

[Montosh]

Ouch IRON can this be refuted? Or will we hear more about lobster party nonsense?

 

Nonsense? Know this Tywin, The Lobster Party will never support Global Stability again.

[Bob]

 

I'm aware of no such attempt to marshal a coalition to roll IRON. The only thing I can imagine you're thinking of was the one we threw together at the last minute when it came to light that you were hours away from turning on your own coalition and declaring on us. On the contrary our position after the war was to co-exist with you since our own spheres were strongly intertwined.

Yeah...no.  Even if you didn't, your direct allies did and you strongly defended their actions when asked about it, and did nothing to change it.  TOP is far from innocent.

Edited November 10, 2014 by Bob

[Fox Fire]

 

Nonsense? This - Is - Lobster!!

*Kicks Tywin into pit of death*

Fixed that for ya. ;)

[Alexio15]

^^^ I can fully support that method.

[Montosh]

I am totally ok with that method as well.

[The Zigur]

I kicked my first hegemonic ambassador down a well in 2008 thanks

[Max Power]

IRON: "TOP is wrong!"

TOP: "IRON is wrong!"

 

Amazing how right you both are at the moment.

 

Ironic how IRON hitting TLR in Disorder was, y'know, IRON hitting C&G after all.

[Mogar]

And people think this war is just a random act of violence.

[Blade 619]

IRON: "TOP is wrong!"

TOP: "IRON is wrong!"

 

Amazing how right you both are at the moment.

 

Ironic how IRON hitting TLR in Disorder was, y'know, IRON hitting C&G after all.

 

We weren't given a choice. 

 

This thread is like watching American political adverts and as with all shit flinging contests I don't give a shit. 

[Theophilos]

You mean the coalition we were forming during the war when it was leaked to us you were planning to pull a side-switch?

 

This is incorrect.

[Auctor]

This is incorrect.

You spelled "inconvenient" wrong. :/

[Theophilos]

You spelled "inconvenient" wrong. :/

 

This is going to be inconvenient for you, but no I didn't. The Republic did not plan to pull a side-switch and unless you were a member of the IRON Council a the time you might want to stop telling stories to yourself.