alyster Posted January 31, 2014 Report Share Posted January 31, 2014 I never said you were masterminds, just you can never let the NPO thing go and iirc DH-NPO was your idea and yall did let GOONS and MK do all the work. But I guess this is the owf and you will just make up whatever you want from my posts *shrugs* Now it's Umbrella's fault they don't suck at nation building? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caliph Posted January 31, 2014 Report Share Posted January 31, 2014 Get with the times. Any war that includes NPO is automatically about them due to their center of the universe mentality. It's also never their fault for any mistakes, and they are always the victim - no matter what. If you wish to debate any of this, you're clearly a TOP puppet! Right, I forgot how in EQ it was all about NPO and how they formed a coalition of the willing to attack Umbrella because everyone knows our nuke rogue who was attacking AI and we countered him doing more damage to him than the AI nations did was really a ploy to roll NPO. I never said you were masterminds, just you can never let the NPO thing go and iirc DH-NPO was your idea and yall did let GOONS and MK do all the work. But I guess this is the owf and you will just make up whatever you want from my posts *shrugs* Also thé disbanding thing was cute the first time Goldie and Pearl came out with that BS. its not our fault NPO hide their upper tiers in peace mode then, just as they do now, instead of coming out to fight. It is our fault for not allowing the previous war to cripple DH-sphere enough to prevent them from coming back at us (and blocking people enough to get them to stop going after DH), and also our fault for preventing the attack on Polar back when it still had (a dubious) chance of success. Pacifica, at this point, is a fairly secondary cog in a strategic game involving XX, TOP and IRON. NPO just happens to be louder. TOP and Polaris are the victims of our intransigence and attempts to exploit this war so as to damage their PR position. TOP has shown themselves to be one of the most competent (politically and technically) alliances, and the biggest winners of this conflict. NpO, whilst less strategically savant, has shown an undue level of moralist backbone that might well not even be in their best interest. You guys tried your best to destroy us and our power sphere. You suceeded in swaying C&G to your side. You failed on raising enough interest of your upper tiers in the EQ coalition to keep Umbrella at war for the additional month that we accepted. You tried your best, succeeded in some areas but like everything on Planet Bob it doesn't last forever. We took the beating, made choices, you made choices, and now we find ourselves in this war. This is just another war in a long history of wars here. This one isn't some special crusade of anyones, nobody is out to put undue harsh terms preventing anyone from rebuilding forever, this is just another war. The only thing special about this war is the amount of victimhood NPO is claiming. most alliances have never done that. Sure many have been targetted, many have had to pay huge reps, tens of thousands of tech and billions in cash, for coming in on MD clauses. But not a one of those alliances has whined to the extent that NPO has whined here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Letum Posted January 31, 2014 Report Share Posted January 31, 2014 You guys tried your best to destroy us and our power sphere. You suceeded in swaying C&G to your side. You failed on raising enough interest of your upper tiers in the EQ coalition to keep Umbrella at war for the additional month that we accepted. You tried your best, succeeded in some areas but like everything on Planet Bob it doesn't last forever. We took the beating, made choices, you made choices, and now we find ourselves in this war. That wasn't our best, it was a pathetic showing that tried to balance a number of contradicting priorities without any grand vision or endgame, and thus failed miserably. This is just another war in a long history of wars here. This one isn't some special crusade of anyones, nobody is out to put undue harsh terms preventing anyone from rebuilding forever, this is just another war. The only thing special about this war is the amount of victimhood NPO is claiming. most alliances have never done that. Sure many have been targetted, many have had to pay huge reps, tens of thousands of tech and billions in cash, for coming in on MD clauses. But not a one of those alliances has whined to the extent that NPO has whined here. You haven't paid enough attention then. Some alliances will keep on whining for years after a war is over. A thread (which is mostly being carried forward by non-Pacificans) isn't really that much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stewie Posted January 31, 2014 Report Share Posted January 31, 2014 OSRaven :wub: Beautiful post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neo Uruk Posted January 31, 2014 Report Share Posted January 31, 2014 Now it's Umbrella's fault they don't suck at nation building?As a member of MK at the time (or had you already ran off to Invicta by then?) you should know damn good and well the accusations levied against Umbrella about taking the war off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starfox101 Posted January 31, 2014 Report Share Posted January 31, 2014 That wasn't our best, it was a pathetic showing that tried to balance a number of contradicting priorities without any grand vision or endgame, and thus failed miserably. You haven't paid enough attention then. Some alliances will keep on whining for years after a war is over. A thread (which is mostly being carried forward by non-Pacificans) isn't really that much. Most alliances just have a vocal minority with a quiet government that understands accepting the terms and moving on is the best case. I've never really seen government sanctioned public broadcasts of whining in the middle of peace talks. It's a brave new world. I'm part of the vocal minority whenever I find myself in situations like this, so don't feel too alone. It is our fault for not allowing the previous war to cripple DH-sphere enough to prevent them from coming back at us (and blocking people enough to get them to stop going after DH), and also our fault for preventing the attack on Polar back when it still had (a dubious) chance of success. Pacifica, at this point, is a fairly secondary cog in a strategic game involving XX, TOP and IRON. NPO just happens to be louder. TOP and Polaris are the victims of our intransigence and attempts to exploit this war so as to damage their PR position. TOP has shown themselves to be one of the most competent (politically and technically) alliances, and the biggest winners of this conflict. NpO, whilst less strategically savant, has shown an undue level of moralist backbone that might well not even be in their best interest. Preventing? I would like to hear more about this, out of curiosity. Anyway, hitting us back then would have ended up poorly for your friends in US, and it's unknown where the DH remnants would have landed in that situation, even before the TOP-Polar treaty. It would have been political suicide to pursue a war that had been publicly called for, for months prior, as well. I think this was understood, and I know NPO has enough political foresight to understand that Polar wasn't quite as vulnerable as hoped - especially while NPO was in the doghouse over EQ. Secondly, we all are aware of this being a PR attempt, and I had already predicted as much weeks earlier on the Polar boards. It happens as wars wind down and both sides jockey for a position in peace terms, and in the post-war political landscape. Anyway, I'll take the moralist comment as a compliment. Interests can change on the fly, but your actions and the way you are viewed cannot. This is one of the reasons I've settled in Polar and I wish I had done so years ago. Lastly, you know what they say about the loudest one in the room. You are a good poster, though, Letum. I enjoy you tenfold over some of these new guys you are bringing out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maelstrom Vortex Posted January 31, 2014 Report Share Posted January 31, 2014 It's all to do with DH/Karma/Eq/Politics/they deserve it/8 days or something. But don't go thinking NPO was in any way the actual target of this war. No. No way. If we weren't then why are we the only one getting terms? This is a grand merry go round. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maelstrom Vortex Posted January 31, 2014 Report Share Posted January 31, 2014 (edited) Oh, SNAP! So what's this to say? Whatever the case, others have quite well pointed out that it's is small consolation to you, as your alliance has thoroughly lost this war. That said, I'll ameliorate your hillbilly inability to properly analyze the case in question by providing you with some help: first off, in my war against you and two other Pacifican nations, you were without exception the one who nuked me, whereas, of the nations arrayed against you, it was always one other than mine that nuked your nation; second, of those three nations with which I was at war, yours happened to generally be my lowest priority, so the focus not being directed toward you was instead being inflicted upon them; and (accordingly) third, the numbers in my wars against your two compatriots were very much to the other end of the scale. This hardly seems something to gloat over. Whatever the case, you're celebrating a Cybernations fool's triumph, and I feel somewhat piteous toward you at the brainless joy you've found in it. Oh, and I suppose your comrades weren't working with you to attack me? If you didn't win, then why didn't Cent or the other gentlemen you were helping assault me? Last I checked.. you all 3 lost. Your troupe does not deserve this victory. If my "hillbilly inability" implies I have higher math functions.. well.. I don't know what part of the world you come from. But it's good to see it seems we.. "hillbillies" are superior in our mathematical thinking and our abilities to wage war.But I reassert my position on the whole matter. Your side doesn't deserve the terms it asks for. It's simply a mob. It flails about only half-co-ordinated and only its mass allows it to do any damage at all.Also, of course I nuked, I had the most tech of my group. You guys had superior tech, you should have been able to hand me my tail easily if you had even performed anywhere near as well. Edited January 31, 2014 by Maelstrom Vortex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goldie Posted January 31, 2014 Report Share Posted January 31, 2014 I never said you were masterminds, just you can never let the NPO thing go and iirc DH-NPO was your idea and yall did let GOONS and MK do all the work. But I guess this is the owf and you will just make up whatever you want from my posts *shrugs* Also thé disbanding thing was cute the first time Goldie and Pearl came out with that BS. I have no idea what you're talking about, what have I said on that subject? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goldie Posted January 31, 2014 Report Share Posted January 31, 2014 (edited) You may mock the concept of friends greater than infra. But your mocking it doesn't change the fact that many of us embrace it. We don't give a damn about any stat except maybe casualties. Your words show friends first, casualties second, and infra last. Your actions show infra first, friends second, casualties last. By claiming to espouse it you sully the term "Friends > Infra". Edited January 31, 2014 by Goldie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stewie Posted January 31, 2014 Report Share Posted January 31, 2014 Some on that side still recognise Friends > Infra If they didn't they'd leave Pacifica on the battlefield or would never have entered to defend their allies in the first place. Global Order of Darkness, I salute you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goldie Posted January 31, 2014 Report Share Posted January 31, 2014 Global Order of Darkness, I salute you. Quoting for future posterity :P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorSoul Posted January 31, 2014 Report Share Posted January 31, 2014 Your words show friends first, casualties second, and infra last. Your actions show infra first, friends second, casualties last. By claiming to espouse it you sully the term "Friends > Infra". Are you legitimately mentally handicapped, or are you just pretending? I actually had to use my hand to support my mouth as it was dropping at the sheer stupidity of this post. This is the second straight war that ODN has had to take it on the chin on behalf of a close ally. NPL, NpO, Fark, CCC, TTK - all alliances that ODN's fought this war. Hopefully I don't need to dive into the dogpile that was the Equilibrium war on their front. ...Of course, their struggles over the last two wars pale in the face of the self-sacrificing alliance that is the Viridian Entente. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stewie Posted January 31, 2014 Report Share Posted January 31, 2014 Quoting for future posterity :P I have nothing but respect for an alliance that enters, wins, then enters again to defend their allies Actions like that should be respected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goldie Posted January 31, 2014 Report Share Posted January 31, 2014 Are you legitimately mentally handicapped, or are you just pretending? I actually had to use my hand to support my mouth as it was dropping at the sheer stupidity of this post. This is the second straight war that ODN has had to take it on the chin on behalf of a close ally. NPL, NpO, Fark, CCC, TTK - all alliances that ODN's fought this war. Hopefully I don't need to dive into the dogpile that was the Equilibrium war on their front. ...Of course, their struggles over the last two wars pale in the face of the self-sacrificing alliance that is the Viridian Entente. Take a deep breath, take a minute, and think objectively for a moment. ODN entered the war with a large portion of its alliance in PM. A fine strategy, it is working to help limit the damage they take so they can save it for a future war. But again, think objectively, and is that a description for someone who is acting in the best interests of its infra or not? I have no issue with ODN, or with what they're doing, but the term "Friends > Infra" is thrown around very loosely, and clearly, ODN values its infra very highly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brucemania Posted January 31, 2014 Report Share Posted January 31, 2014 Take a deep breath, take a minute, and think objectively for a moment. ODN entered the war with a large portion of its alliance in PM. A fine strategy, it is working to help limit the damage they take so they can save it for a future war. But again, think objectively, and is that a description for someone who is acting in the best interests of its infra or not? I have no issue with ODN, or with what they're doing, but the term "Friends > Infra" is thrown around very loosely, and clearly, ODN values its infra very highly. Hmmm ... good for some .. not so good for others ? .. just saying :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crymson Posted January 31, 2014 Report Share Posted January 31, 2014 hahaha I agree, all us, we're the masterminds behind everything! I think the general consensus around our membership for the terms are disbandment, all leaders are to retire from public faces into GPA. Please be aware part of the terms will also apply to TLR, except in terms of disbanding I'm sure you lads can do that all by yourselves, say hi to rush, I still love him. To sum up: NPO didn't lose a conventional war (the universe wouldn't allow this!); they've instead simply been the target of an insidious, genius plot! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crymson Posted January 31, 2014 Report Share Posted January 31, 2014 So ultimately, top can't win if they refuse to compromise and offer terms that our side feel are not abusive. Can't win. Because *top* by their actions are demonstrating they clearly care about their political position and their pixels post war. You care about tech and status and power over principle. And that's your Achilles heel. The agreed-upon strategy of the losing side's leadership appears to be the incessant utterance of mendacious comments about TOP. Flattering, I guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brucemania Posted January 31, 2014 Report Share Posted January 31, 2014 (edited) To sum up: NPO didn't lose a conventional war (the universe wouldn't allow this!); they've instead simply been the target of an insidious, genius plot! You don.t need to whine for us we can do that on our own apparently .. thanks for the support though :) Edited January 31, 2014 by brucemania Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OsRavan Posted January 31, 2014 Report Share Posted January 31, 2014 (edited) Take a deep breath, take a minute, and think objectively for a moment. ODN entered the war with a large portion of its alliance in PM. A fine strategy, it is working to help limit the damage they take so they can save it for a future war. But again, think objectively, and is that a description for someone who is acting in the best interests of its infra or not? I have no issue with ODN, or with what they're doing, but the term "Friends > Infra" is thrown around very loosely, and clearly, ODN values its infra very highly. Let me clear up your confusion for you then. A peace mode strategy to do as much damage to your enemy doesnt equal caring about infra over friends. If we cared about infra over friends, we would have taken one of the many opportunities months ago to avoid this war or fight on the other side. Or we would have peaced out a month ago when our allies told us it was OK to do so. ::Shrugs::. What you see is what you get with ODN. Win or lose we will fight in the front lines with our friends from start to finish without complaint. Thats what you get with ODN. Its why we took tons of damage in winning wars like bi polar and dave. Its why we took tons of damage last war. Its why we are taking tons of damage this war. Infra greater then friends doesnt mean you go "ugh! ODN smash!" and flail around with a club. It does mean your first priority are your allies, not your post war standing. And it means we are here for the long haul. I imagine you already knew that though, and your little dig was a pr move ::grins::. Edited January 31, 2014 by OsRavan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mogar Posted January 31, 2014 Report Share Posted January 31, 2014 (edited) If we weren't then why are we the only one getting terms? This is a grand merry go round. If the !@#$%*ing continues I'm sure I can come up with creative terms for every alliance remaining in your coalition. I really don't think you guys want them to put me in charge of giving terms though. Edited January 31, 2014 by Mogar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the rebel Posted January 31, 2014 Report Share Posted January 31, 2014 Oh, and I suppose your comrades weren't working with you to attack me? If you didn't win, then why didn't Cent or the other gentlemen you were helping assault me? Last I checked.. you all 3 lost. Your troupe does not deserve this victory. If my "hillbilly inability" implies I have higher math functions.. well.. I don't know what part of the world you come from. But it's good to see it seems we.. "hillbillies" are superior in our mathematical thinking and our abilities to wage war. But I reassert my position on the whole matter. Your side doesn't deserve the terms it asks for. It's simply a mob. It flails about only half-co-ordinated and only its mass allows it to do any damage at all. Also, of course I nuked, I had the most tech of my group. You guys had superior tech, you should have been able to hand me my tail easily if you had even performed anywhere near as well. Your own personal wars is all you ever talk about... You could be the "best" fighting nation in the world, but it means jack shit in the grand scheme of things, leave your delusions of grandeur at the door for once in future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maelstrom Vortex Posted February 1, 2014 Report Share Posted February 1, 2014 If the !@#$%*ing continues I'm sure I can come up with creative terms for every alliance remaining in your coalition. I really don't think you guys want them to put me in charge of giving terms though. It's very interesting when people propose changes in policy to cover their tracks.. *chortles*. Almost serves as confirmation. Your own personal wars is all you ever talk about... You could be the "best" fighting nation in the world, but it means jack !@#$ in the grand scheme of things, leave your delusions of grandeur at the door for once in future. If my own personal wars didn't matter I'd have much less reason to be in a war time alliance. I thoroughly enjoy kicking your rumps regardless of the side I'm on. I have no delusions, I am quite grand. I doubt my grandness would change even if I lost, but that's a bit off the discussion. Besides.. if our individual battles didn't matter no one could win wars at all! People'd just shout at each other all day and the reality behind the argument would never change! Victory and defeats, by swarm or not, determine the overall progress of the overall battle. That said, I will take great joy in the prosecution of my wars. It gives me purpose. One I don't intend on letting your perspective on the matter change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bakamitai Posted February 1, 2014 Report Share Posted February 1, 2014 You pretend to convince us that NPO will come to the rescue of the weak and abused? As her past record proves, in such an event they will sit out or side with the stronger side. If I'm the stronger I don't need them, and if I'm the weaker I don't want them joining the dogpile. Much like NPO sat out this very war, and didn't rush to the side of NSO when Polar abused them out of raw cowardice. Oh wait, no we didn't. We entered this war before anyone else on our side. We ran the numbers, just like you did, and knew it was going to be our collective asses. We came anyway. I can't tell whether this was said tongue-in-cheek or genuinely. Oh, it's definitely a little of both. A little break in the tension: WHY WOULD YOU DO THAT? Because I am a masochist. There should quite honestly be a medal for this. It's not the casualty count that makes the man, but the psychological torments endured while reading these terrible threads. In reality this is actually retribution for mary's ban on huggles. I knew it! Inevitably, the truth will out. And thanks. :) I'm not sure how I missed that. You are a god among mortals. Thanks man, I :wub: you too. In other news, I have really missed OsRavan's insights. Caliph isn't half bad either. You guys really should do something with your talents... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the rebel Posted February 1, 2014 Report Share Posted February 1, 2014 If my own personal wars didn't matter I'd have much less reason to be in a war time alliance. I thoroughly enjoy kicking your rumps regardless of the side I'm on. I have no delusions, I am quite grand. I doubt my grandness would change even if I lost, but that's a bit off the discussion. Besides.. if our individual battles didn't matter no one could win wars at all! People'd just shout at each other all day and the reality behind the argument would never change! Victory and defeats, by swarm or not, determine the overall progress of the overall battle. That said, I will take great joy in the prosecution of my wars. It gives me purpose. One I don't intend on letting your perspective on the matter change. They don't matter, if you left this world tomorrow NPO wouldn't cease to be a major alliance without you :rolleyes: We would just have one less idiot touting how he/she is the next best thing since sliced bread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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