A Message from the Emperor of the New Pacific Order

[kerschbs]

C&G enabled reps over $2 Billion, several thousand tech, etc etc from alliances "who just honored treaties."  Same difference.  C&G are not moral AAs in any sense of the word and no one, including themselves, honestly believes them to be nor will we ever, so give it a rest, it's stupid and you're stupid.

 

C&G also pitched a fit when MK tried to ask reps from MHA in the Dave War and threatened to unilaterally leave the war and grant white peace to everyone we were fighting. Funny how MHA didn't pay reps in that war huh?

[berbers]

 

C&G also pitched a fit when MK tried to ask reps from MHA in the Dave War and threatened to unilaterally leave the war and grant white peace to everyone we were fighting. Funny how MHA didn't pay reps in that war huh?

 

Yeah, thankfully they are a good bunch of people and are paying back the goodwill right now OH WAIT A MINUTE

Edited February 1, 2014 by berbers

[RedSandman]

How is this thread even still going? Fifty three pages of people talking eachother in circles.

 

That's the truth...

[Stewie]

This is very false. NPO government wanted nothing to do with the roll Polar idea and it's one of  the biggest reasons nothing ever happened. The people who wanted to roll NpO got frustrated enough that most left NG and formed BF1.

 
Bear
 
FORCE
 
ONE!!!1!!!!11!
 

[Tick1]

 

It's also funny why NPO doesn't use PM anymore than anyone else yet keeps getting forced out of it.  MHA barely dropped score during Dave War through PM tactics, Sparta PM'd everything above 80K and basically kept it there, etc, etc.

 

So why is it always NPO getting forced out of PM?  Oh right, because when NPO is on the winning side they wouldn't stand for something so stupid, but all the AA's who benefit from NPO not being a jackass, turn around and pull this stunt when the tables are reversed.

 

Stupid terms are stupid, unfortunately brute force can ram through stupid terms, and for some unholy reason enough good people are supporting this monstrosity that you will end up getting them.

 

Yeah, you're right, NPO wouldn't stand for something so lenient.

Edited February 1, 2014 by Tick1

[Neo Uruk]

How is this thread even still going? Fifty three pages of people talking eachother in circles.

I've tried to just stop talking once it reaches a certain point, tbh. Reading the same talking points five times in a row gets old. Can people not just say "well enough" and leave shit alone when they know neither side is going to be convinced? If neutral or objective parties were interested they'd be in here asking questions. Christ. At least the OP and first few pages had a chance of doing something. We don't want to hear "NPO has to do this" for the umpteenth time, just as you don't - or probably do, in all honesty - want to hear "TOP are behind this!"

C&G also pitched a fit when MK tried to ask reps from MHA in the Dave War and threatened to unilaterally leave the war and grant white peace to everyone we were fighting. Funny how MHA didn't pay reps in that war huh?

MHA objectively deserved to get its teeth kicked in just for all the weird shit that I had to read on Umb forums in the buildup to Grudge.
 

Yeah, thankfully they are a good bunch of people and are paying back the goodwill right now OH WAIT A MINUTE

They probably haven't even noticed that there are terms on the table. Or that peace has been discussed period.

[Starfox101]

 

Much like NPO sat out this very war, and didn't rush to the side of NSO when Polar abused them out of raw cowardice.  Oh wait, no we didn't.  We entered this war before anyone else on our side. We ran the numbers, just like you did, and knew it was going to be our collective asses.  We came anyway.

 

Thanks man, I :wub: you too.

Abused NSO out of raw cowardice? You mean we took the fight to a group that had been trying to rile up support to hit us for months? You must really be a fool if you think that you can spin the past so much. I remember just about every time Polar made a post we had NG/NSO telling us we were dead in the future. Apparently, beating the hell out of someone who is trying to kill you but doesn't have the guts or the resources - is cowardice. Then what does that make NSO?

 

Too much time on the spin wash...

 

The fact is that Polar and TOP launched a preemptive aggressive war and now they want to levy terms on alliances that simply honored treaties to defend the nations that TOP and the NpO aggressively attacked with zero provocation. I suppose pure military victory and stomping on the corpses of their adversaries is all TOP and NpO care about right now, but politically this is a very stupid move that exposes them as a power-hungry bloc with little concern for global stability. Indeed, they seem to care for very little outside of what they can force the world to give them at the point of a gun.

 

The very equilibrium of the world has been upset by their regime.

Zero provocation? I'm guessing you didn't know anyone in NSO or NG, otherwise you must be blind, deaf, or dumb to truly believe this. Look, we can all agree that NSO had this coming. To a point I would say they wanted to draw us into an aggressive conflict because they knew they didn't have the resources to start an offensive war. The only problem is that we had more resources and are better fighters than they hoped, while the opposite is true for them. 

 

Also, no speaking of global stability. Literally nobody cares about stability.

 

 

6 month old chat logs of a questionable nature = preemptive aggressive strike/not "taking it lying down" ?

I wish I remember who I could attribute this quote to, but it is so relevant today.

 

"I hope this time around Polar does something other than wait for a beating."

 

There was much more to it than the chat logs, that was merely the spark that ignited the fire logs covered in gasoline. Arguing the legitimacy of a CB is a CN tradition, but you don't have much of an argument here. You are so biased that if we had declared on them for spying/attacking/nuking us you still would find us at fault for something.

 

I think if they got white peace they wouldn't be after revenge, but giving them terms would give them good reason to do so. If NPO got white peace, they would want to avoid perceptions of old. If they are given terms, it would show even when they give white peace like in the Equilibrium War, it doesn't matter to those who oppose them.

That's very optimistic. When has anyone ever accepted a losing war and not come for revenge? 

 

Come on, now. 

 

NPO did not in any way support a "roll Polar v245" war. They, of course, would have helped their allies, but it was not their plan to have an aggressive war against Polar.

This is not due to the kindness of Pacifican hearts, as you wish to portray. I've already outlined it earlier, and Letum himself admits it in the post below...

 

Granted, that was more because we thought the CB was !@#$ and that it wasn't strategically wise rather than any genuine love for Polaris, and had those issues been addressed we would probably have been on board, but most alliances would be willing to jump on an Ally's cause with a good CB and a strategic imperative.

Sometimes it sucks when the truth slaps your propaganda in the face, eh, Rey?

Edited February 1, 2014 by Starfox101

[Neo Uruk]

This is not due to the kindness of Pacifican hearts, as you wish to portray.

Please tell me where I did that, and I'll retract the objective fact that Pacifica didn't support the rolling of Polar.

Hell, if it were up to them, I think TOP would play field hockey with a good quarter of your coalition. Does that mean they are doing so or will in the near future? No, and I don't expect them to (and neither does anyone else realistically) Edited February 1, 2014 by Neo Uruk

[brucemania]

Firstly, they aren't reps no matter how much you cry about it. Second, no one currently opposing Pacifica has any reason whatsoever to assume that if the shoe were on the other foot that the only term that would be on the table would be white peace.

 

Karma NPO payed reps

DH war NPO had terms levied

next few wars NPO was on victorious side no reps collected

this war ... terms being sought from other side

 

see pattern here ?

[Neo Uruk]

Karma NPO payed reps
DH war NPO had terms levied
next few wars NPO was on victorious side no reps collected
this war ... terms being sought from other side
 
see pattern here ?

To add onto this, Fark pre-empted NPO for pretty much shits and giggles and lost and nobody called for terms as far as I can remember. If I'm wrong, sorry. Fuzzy memory because I didn't really give as much of a damn about it, was busy ghostbusting for MHA.

[brucemania]

It was obvious TOP/Umb were out to get yous which I'm sure helped forge the TOP/NpO treaty. You let down most of everyone else in the Eq side of that war but I dont think any of them wanted to roll you for it. Even during the Eq war, your allies and I'm pretty sure NPO were crying how NpO hit TLR and chained in NG on the losing side. After those actions yous were trying to set up the next war and make Polar the main target for honoring a treaty. Looks like the tables have turned huh.

 

Pretty sure ? ... seems you know more what NPO was doing more than NPO without fact.  If you want to speculate go to the pond and pan for gold.. if you got fact then you are rich son .

[brucemania]

To add onto this, Fark pre-empted NPO for pretty much !@#$% and giggles and lost and nobody called for terms as far as I can remember. If I'm wrong, sorry. Fuzzy memory because I didn't really give as much of a damn about it, was busy ghostbusting for MHA.

correct .. there was a thing on the wording between FAN and Us but no terms no reps .. and to add NPO and FAN becoame close due to great diplo

[Stewie]

To add onto this, Fark pre-empted NPO for pretty much !@#$% and giggles and lost and nobody called for terms as far as I can remember. If I'm wrong, sorry. Fuzzy memory because I didn't really give as much of a damn about it, was busy ghostbusting for MHA.

FARK pre-empted NPO thinking that they'd be fine...

nope.jpg

[bakamitai]

Abused NSO out of raw cowardice? You mean we took the fight to a group that had been trying to rile up support to hit us for months? You must really be a fool if you think that you can spin the past so much. I remember just about every time Polar made a post we had NG/NSO telling us we were dead in the future. Apparently, beating the hell out of someone who is trying to kill you but doesn't have the guts or the resources - is cowardice. Then what does that make NSO?

 

Too much time on the spin wash...

 

Yes, it was done out of pixel-hugging fear.  That's why Polar ran to TOP in August.  TOP didn't need Polar's military strength, but it gave them a more immediate chance to finish off Equilibrium.  And here we are today, with Umbrella (and maybe TOP) trying to punish NPO for Brehon's actions against Umbrella in EQ, despite the fact that those actions ended up not costing Umbrella any pixels in the final analysis.

 

But let's not forget, we wouldn't be here without Polar's war of naked aggression.  When you treaty a former enemy then start a preemptive war just because people are calling you names on the OWF, that says a lot about your character.

 

Edit: words

Edited February 1, 2014 by bakamitai

[IYIyTh]

 

Yes, it was done out of pixel-hugging fear.  That's why Polar ran to TOP in August.  TOP didn't need Polar's military strength, but it gave them a more immediate chance to finish off Equilibrium.  And here we are today, with Umbrella (and maybe TOP) trying to punish NPO for Brehon's actions against Umbrella in EQ, despite the fact that those actions ended up not costing Umbrella any pixels in the final analysis.

 

But let's not forget, we wouldn't be here without Polar's war of naked aggression.  When you treaty a former enemy then start a preemptive war just because people are calling you names on the OWF, that says a lot about your character.

 

Edit: words

 

This repeated line about Pacifican non-involvement in the attempted rolling of Polar is hilarious. Even your coalition mates know it to be false. Give it a rest. In fact -- give all of the rhetoric a rest -- and let us know when your emperor is serious about discussing peace. Perhaps your time would be better served.

[Neo Uruk]

This repeated line about Pacifican non-involvement in the attempted rolling of Polar is hilarious. Even your coalition mates know it to be false. Give it a rest. In fact -- give all of the rhetoric a rest -- and let us know when your emperor is serious about discussing peace. Perhaps your time would be better served.

Yeah, they were so involved and made a lot of pushes to get NSO and NG to declare. They even got a resounding "no" from their allies and still pushed it forward.

Now, let's head back to reality, please. Edited February 1, 2014 by Neo Uruk

[berbers]

 

This repeated line about Pacifican non-involvement in the attempted rolling of Polar is hilarious. Even your coalition mates know it to be false. Give it a rest. In fact -- give all of the rhetoric a rest -- and let us know when your emperor is serious about discussing peace. Perhaps your time would be better served.

 

NPO was not an advocate of that war in any way shape or form, however I think it is obvious if 80% of their allies ended up on one side of a war they would end up alongside them.

 

Who cares anyway, anyone with half a brain can see this war's CB is one of the more justified ones in the past 5 years, there is no secret that certain alliances wanted NpO's head, and NpO did something about it.  Great, makes for exciting times.

 

Where everything get's a bit squirrelly is when you start demanding terms for stupid reasons.  This war should have been over a month ago, people's pig-headedness and desire to recreate a unipolar power structure is what's pushing it forward.

[Pingu]

In reality this is actually retribution for mary's ban on huggles.

ODN notes your cunning plan to get us to switch sides, but it is not going to work.

[brucemania]

 

This repeated line about Pacifican non-involvement in the attempted rolling of Polar is hilarious. Even your coalition mates know it to be false. Give it a rest. In fact -- give all of the rhetoric a rest -- and let us know when your emperor is serious about discussing peace. Perhaps your time would be better ser

 

And you know this how? What you are calling rhetoric is more stable of truth sir than the stability you show of staying in one place.

[IYIyTh]

 

NPO was not an advocate of that war in any way shape or form, however I think it is obvious if 80% of their allies ended up on one side of a war they would end up alongside them.

 

Who cares anyway, anyone with half a brain can see this war's CB is one of the more justified ones in the past 5 years, there is no secret that certain alliances wanted NpO's head, and NpO did something about it.  Great, makes for exciting times.

 

Where everything get's a bit squirrelly is when you start demanding terms for stupid reasons.  This war should have been over a month ago, people's pig-headedness and desire to recreate a unipolar power structure is what's pushing it forward.

 

Yes, because these terms clearly will create a unipolar power structure.

[IYIyTh]

 

And you know this how? What you are calling rhetoric is more stable of truth sir than the stability you show of staying in one place.

 

It's all rhetoric.

 

You claim that these terms are so terrible and are the worst ever, yet they don't even pass the sniff test when even some of your greatest apologists compare them to the terms you've delivered to alliances in the past. 

 

 

Your emperor has been caught dipping out on peace talks more than once -- and every time you all have to invent a new reason why you're holding your own coalition hostage. It's quite enjoyable, really -- because they're not dumb, and if you think you're going to walk the dog another month, you're going to find yourself empty handed.

 

Sure, if any of us were in Pacifica's position we'd do the same. In fact, some of us have done the same when Pacifica has attempted to levy such terms. The fact remains that those fighting for you are beaten and your emperor has no clothes -- desperately trying to spin the position that your enemies are close to folding and that they're being unreasonable. Wrong on both accounts.

[IYIyTh]

Also, I'll take that as a compliment. Perhaps staying in one place so long has fried your ability to see that at this point it's impossible for you to spin Pacifica's prolonging of the war. Meanwhile, five days later -- your emperor floats garbage offers to offer to pay a coalition who has never asked for reps, reps. Clearly done with the intent of trying so hard to find a way to make the actual terms fit the narrative. With the emperor storming out of negotiations effectively extending the war over an 8 day difference while negotiating was ongoing -- and suffering in billions of damage to Pacifica -- and those allies who think they are supporting a noble cause -- can't be spun any other way than Pacifica actually simply wants to continue fighting.

 

That's fine, don't pretend anyone else is holding up peace though.

Edited February 1, 2014 by IYIyTh

[Boston]

 If you think you're going to walk the dog another month, you're going to find yourself empty handed.

 

This shows your complete lack of understanding of those that you are facing.   :facepalm:  Congrats.  Lets keep the glow for another 3 month.

Edited February 1, 2014 by Boston

[Dochartaigh]

 

Karma NPO payed reps

DH war NPO had terms levied

next few wars NPO was on victorious side no reps collected

this war ... terms being sought from other side

 

see pattern here ?

 

Do you wanna list the wars when NPO was in charge and the outcomes of those wars mate? I was there. Alliances disbanded at the end of those wars. Viceroys were installed at the end of those wars. Massive reps were levied. So on and so forth. See a much worse pattern here?

[Schattenmann]

 

C&G also pitched a fit when MK tried to ask reps from MHA in the Dave War and threatened to unilaterally leave the war and grant white peace to everyone we were fighting. Funny how MHA didn't pay reps in that war huh?

Oh, darn.  And just one war too late to effect my opinion. 

But, here's what we can do:  While we're on top we'll do whatever we want, as things start slipping we'll back off a little, and then when we're on the outs again we'll claim virtue based on our latest action disregarding our record on the whole and we'll expect you to accept that self-assessment.